Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

[KanadaHye]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Mugabe and his master!

The West hasn't been involved in Africa for the last thirty years and it's the Chinese who now have every despot in Africa in their pocket and are robbing the place blind.

Yes, I'm well aware the West hasn't been involved in many Coups d'etat's since the assassinations of liberation leaders like Patrice Lumumba in the former Belgian Congo, Ben Barka in Morocco, Kwame Nkrumah in Ghana, Eduardo Mondlane in Mozambique, Amilcar Cabral in Guinea-Bissau and Marien Ngouabi in the Republic of the Congo. You will see now that America's "counter terrorism" units will move into Africa as they wouldn't want China to have the upper hand.

Let's not mention the proxy wars supported by the United States and its NATO allies and in some instances apartheid South Africa and the Mobutu Sese Seko regime in Zaire in the mid-1970s and the 1980s, such as arming and training the National Front for the Liberation of Angola (FNLA) and the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA), the unspeakably brutal Mozambican National Resistance (RENAMO), and Eritrean and Tigrayan armed separatists in Ethiopia as well as backing the Somali invasion of the Ogaden Desert in that country.

It's true that the only DIRECT post-World War II American military action in Africa was the deadly 1986 air strikes against Libya in 1986, Operation El Dorado Canyon.

This doesn't mean the CIA hasn't been meddling in Africa, it's just that the West has been using Africans to kill other Africans in order to protect their interests and resources.

[retro]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Africa has plenty of resources and the Chinese are capitalizing on it by having good relations with the African leaders. They don't involve themselves with Africa's politics and they bring Chinese migrants for labor who work along side Africans. It's a rather progressive relationship which benefits both parties. The West like to do things the lazy way by putting despots into power and raping the African lands.

Mugabe and his master!

The West hasn't been involved in Africa for the last thirty years and it's the Chinese who now have every despot in Africa in their pocket and are robbing the place blind.

So far, the Zimbabweans who are most feeling China's influence in their country are the workers. As Chinese firms take over business and Chinese managers come to run everything from billion-dollar mining companies to the downtown restaurants in capital Harare, Zimbabwean workers and labor unions are complaining of mistreatment and exploitation. Earlier this month, construction workers went on strike over low pay -- $4 per day -- and what they said were regular beatings by their managers Chinese managers with the Anhui Foreign Economic Construction Company. The case is just one of many that has labor groups -- one of the few segments of Zimbabwean politics that enjoys latitude from the ruling party -- up in arms.

Reports of beatings by Chinese managers are so common that even a cook at Harare's popular China Garden restaurant complained of them, telling the Zimbabwe Mail & Guardian, "Working for these men from the East is hell on earth."

"Workers continue to endure various forms of physical torture at the hands of these Chinese employers right under the noses of the authorities," a spokesperson for the the Zimbabwe Construction and Allied Trade Workers' Union told the same newspaper. "One of the most disturbing developments is that most of the Chinese employers openly boast that they have government protection and so nothing can be done to them. This clearly indicates that the issue has more serious political connotations than we can imagine."

The labor spokesperson's fears of political capture are probably not misplaced. China has adeptly co-opted much of the country's political leadership, buying impunity for Chinese managers as well as control over much of Zimbabwe's economy. China recently paid $3 billion for exclusive access to Zimbabwe's extensive platinum rights, a contract estimated to be worth $40 billion. It might seem surprising that Mugabe would take such a lopsided deal, but platinum is both expensive and time-consuming to extract. His country has a national debt of $7.1 billion, which is larger than the national GDP, and with his regime so isolated from the international community, few other sources of investment.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...ialism/240978/

[KanadaHye]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Over the last decade the Chinese have invested $2 trillion in Africa vs. $300 billion by the US. It's the Chinese are exploiting the Africans resources, not the West and whats more. The Chinese are colonising Africa and theirs a couple of million Chinese settlers in African now.

Africa has plenty of resources and the Chinese are capitalizing on it by having good relations with the African leaders. They don't involve themselves with Africa's politics and they bring Chinese migrants for labor who work along side Africans. It's a rather progressive relationship which benefits both parties. The West like to do things the lazy way by putting despots into power and raping the African lands.

[retro]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

As far as Libya being poor.... the people might not be filthy rich but the infrastructure isn't exactly a ghetto and nobody was starving.

North Africa is a giant tip and Morocco is about the best of the bunch.

But you are right about the Chinese... except they don't bomb their business partners.

Over the last decade the Chinese have invested $2 trillion in Africa vs. $300 billion by the US. It's the Chinese are exploiting the Africans resources, not the West and whats more. The Chinese are colonising Africa and theirs a couple of million Chinese settlers in African now.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

KanadaHye is free to crank out, his anti-western propaganda from the safety of Canada.

And what part of what I said is false?

As far as Libya being poor.... the people might not be filthy rich but the infrastructure isn't exactly a ghetto and nobody was starving.







But you are right about the Chinese... except they don't bomb their business partners.











Hell, I think the only part of the world that is really behind is North America!!!!!

[retro]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

U.S. led aggression was launched to replace one despot with another. I'm not sure if they intended to assassinate Gaddafi, his sons and top officials but they definitely wanted to take the Libyan wealth before Gaddafi started using the money he had saved for investment into Libyan infrastructure. Gaddafi was betting on interest rates to rise so that the cash reserves of Libya would compound interest. Apparently the powers that be didn't want any of that money to be used towards Libyans. They are hoping to control Libyas oil, gas and other resources, exploit its people, privatize the state industries under Western control and create new Pentagon bases to use them for greater regional dominance. Much like the Yugoslavia and Iraq shams the war on Libya is for resources.

Libya is being attacked, its people killed, civilian targets destroyed, and a humanitarian disaster created with the logic to save it. In other words, "destroying the village to save it" on a nationwide scale like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Southeast Asia in the 1960s and 70s, and Korea in the 1950s. Just add this to the list of numerous proxy wars in Central America, Africa and elsewhere. Wherever America shows up, blood spills followed by horrific human suffering.

KanadaHye is free to crank out, his anti-western propaganda from the safety of Canada.

Why do you think that the Russians and Chinese are in Libya and the Chinese are crawling all over Africa? I know that Sarkozy and Cameron are Zionist imperialists. However Libya should by all rights be a prosperous nation and it is hardly well governed.

Syria and Yemen are in a state of anarchy and the Arabs now have all sort of problems with their client states.

What is happening in Sudan is intresting. As whilst South Sudan are currently reliant on refinery and port infrastructure in North Sudan for their energy exports. Once independent South Sudan will have control over three quarters of Sudans oil production.

That July 9 secession is the outcome of a January referendum that will see President Omar Hassan al-Bashir and his government in the northern capital Khartoum lose three-quarters of the country's current oil output, roughly 500,000 barrels per day.

Sudan is one of China's largest foreign supplier of crude oil, making Beijing all the more keen to ensure a smooth transition along the volatile north-south border and that supplies are not interrupted.

"Everyone knows the elephant in the room is China's investment in Sudan. The security of its interests is a big concern for China," said He Wenping, an Africa expert at top government think tank the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Khartoum seized the main town in the north-south border region of Abyei on May 21, raising fears the two sides could return to conflict. But Sudan's military and the south's Sudan People's Liberation Army agreed this week to withdraw forces in favour of Ethiopian peacekeepers.

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldN...75M25Y20110623

[Mos]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Though interestingly enough, US was recently before this unrest mending relations with Libya and restoring political ties.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

U.S. led aggression was launched to replace one despot with another. I'm not sure if they intended to assassinate Gaddafi, his sons and top officials but they definitely wanted to take the Libyan wealth before Gaddafi started using the money he had saved for investment into Libyan infrastructure. Gaddafi was betting on interest rates to rise so that the cash reserves of Libya would compound interest. Apparently the powers that be didn't want any of that money to be used towards Libyans. They are hoping to control Libyas oil, gas and other resources, exploit its people, privatize the state industries under Western control and create new Pentagon bases to use them for greater regional dominance. Much like the Yugoslavia and Iraq shams the war on Libya is for resources.

Libya is being attacked, its people killed, civilian targets destroyed, and a humanitarian disaster created with the logic to save it. In other words, "destroying the village to save it" on a nationwide scale like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Southeast Asia in the 1960s and 70s, and Korea in the 1950s. Just add this to the list of numerous proxy wars in Central America, Africa and elsewhere. Wherever America shows up, blood spills followed by horrific human suffering.

[Federate]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Federate

The Islamist propaganda mouthpiece, Press TV is hardly an impartial source.

NATO have neutralized over 10,000 targets in Libya. So all things considered; the Wests collateral damage has been very low and it's not if though they have being dropping unguided ordnance. and carpet bombing the place.

The problem with Libya is that the rebels are disorganised, mujahideen types and defectors. Nevertheless as long as they manage to hold the front line. They are fairly well placed to partially resume oil exports.

The countries bombing Libya can hardly be considered impartial sources too . Press TV, which is conducting an interview with a Western journalist, is anti-Gadhafi by the way, so is the Islamic Republic of Iran who support the overthrow of him.

[retro]

Re: Muammar Gaddafi and Libyan crisis

Federate

The Islamist propaganda mouthpiece, Press TV is hardly an impartial source.

NATO have neutralized over 10,000 targets in Libya. So all things considered; the Wests collateral damage has been very low and it's not if though they have being dropping unguided ordnance. and carpet bombing the place.

The problem with Libya is that the rebels are disorganised, mujahideen types and defectors. Nevertheless as long as they manage to hold the front line. They are fairly well placed to partially resume oil exports.

Goldman Sachs: Libya's oil exports could rise by 355,000 b/d

Libya’s oil exports could rise by as much as 355,000 b/d from areas held by forces opposed to the rule of the country’s leader Moammar Gadhafi, according to an analyst report.

“The opposition forces could resume about 200,000 b/d of crude exports as some fields and their related export terminals are largely intact,” said the report by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. “A further 155,000 b/d could potentially be exported at a later stage from a second loading port under their control.”

The report said Libya’s oil exports could climb as high as 585,000 b/d if Gadhafi is removed from power and production resumes from western fields held by his government.

The study, led by analyst David Greely, also warned resumption of the country’s full output of 1.6 million b/d will be much more challenging.

“Not only are the export terminals currently under the control of the Gadhafi government, but news reports also suggest that some of the installations have been severely damaged,” the analysts said.

The report follows earlier predictions by the International Energy Agency that Libya’s oil production for the rest of 2011 will be marginal, with the opposition National Transitional Council (NTC), “perhaps able to export some crude in coming months under NATO protection.”

IEA said Libya’s oil production faces a “long haul” to make a full recovery in the wake of the civil war gripping the country and will not return to its full capacity until 2015.

Libya’s oil production has declined to less than 200,000 b/d from the 1.5-1.6 million b/d produced before the outbreak of hostilities in February.

http://www.ogj.com/index/article-display/9066951738/articles/oil-gas-journal/general-interest-2/economics-markets/20100/june-2011/goldman-sachs__libya.html