Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

[gregory]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

it was nice to exchange opinions with you hope we can see someone who will enlighten us on this matter

[Haykakan]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

Every country on earth is a victim of corruption. I would say people in countries like USA are even bigger victims because there corruption is legitimitized (special interest grps etc..). The truth is there is not much a average citizen can do.

[gregory]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

People like to use that word "democracy" as if it is some kind of holy grail that everyone should be trhiving for. In reality it is one of the worst forms of governments humanity has yet created. Do not make democracy into some kind of idealistic goal which has never and will never exist because it is the most corrupt and warlike(violent) form of government ever consieved by man yet. Just ask socretes what he thught of democracy and the price he paid for sharing those thoughts and then you will realize exactly what democracy is! As for our heros, i think it is painfully obvious that the hero title comes at a great cost and at times the ultimate cost. The reason why most people in the USA have the freedom to say anything is because the people in power there are sure that regular people are completely powerless when it comes to making any real changes. As soon as somebody gains the power to make a change the authorities dont want -that person is elliminated. Maybe Vazgen was going to be the great leader we Armenians had all hoped for and that is probably why he was killed. There are many powerfull states who would want armenia to be without strong and effective leadership and hardly any that want what is good for us Armenians. What pisses me off is that we armenian are so easily manipulated into thinking that deadly poisen is actually good for us.

ok,ok COME DOWN BROTHER we are not having democracy lesson here , if you want I can express lots of thoughts which I have been writing about a new form of ruling system which took his birth from democracy which of course " will not be called democracy" but let us leave it by now one side , Iam starving if any reasonable Armenian citizen in Yerevan, in Valk,in whatever city why the hell they dont have the courage to give a start of Vazgen case IT IS A HUMILIATING FACT AND BELIEVE ME NO ONE IN DIASPORA WANT TO RETURN ARMENIA BECAUSE OF WE DONT SEE A HEAD OF STATE WHO DONT CARES ABOUT HIS LIFE AND PUT END OF CORRUPTION WHICH IS THE MOTHER OF ALL DE FORMALITIES OF OUR COUNTRY

[Haykakan]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

People like to use that word "democracy" as if it is some kind of holy grail that everyone should be trhiving for. In reality it is one of the worst forms of governments humanity has yet created. Do not make democracy into some kind of idealistic goal which has never and will never exist because it is the most corrupt and warlike(violent) form of government ever consieved by man yet. Just ask socretes what he thught of democracy and the price he paid for sharing those thoughts and then you will realize exactly what democracy is! As for our heros, i think it is painfully obvious that the hero title comes at a great cost and at times the ultimate cost. The reason why most people in the USA have the freedom to say anything is because the people in power there are sure that regular people are completely powerless when it comes to making any real changes. As soon as somebody gains the power to make a change the authorities dont want -that person is elliminated. Maybe Vazgen was going to be the great leader we Armenians had all hoped for and that is probably why he was killed. There are many powerfull states who would want armenia to be without strong and effective leadership and hardly any that want what is good for us Armenians. What pisses me off is that we armenian are so easily manipulated into thinking that deadly poisen is actually good for us.

[gregory]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

what Iam saying that it is illogical to think Russia behind Vazgens death incidents since Russia is the only historical friend of Armenian nation which there is no doubt about it, of course Russian political interest meets with existence of Armenian nation it is very important to stress whichever forces are involved in this atrocities it should be revealed by current political powers no matter whatever cost it may pay the government ,all political bloody incidents should be solved and make public if we are talking democracy, transparency etc . By the way no one should forget the case of Mont Melkonian his death wasnt caused by Azeri's ambush obviously the bullets which was used not being matched with Azeri's armaments , who have triggered his death an other our national hero vanishes and we are talking cia,etc. It is just very sad to see our hero s final destinies .

[Haykakan]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

Think about when Vazgen died. It was the begining of those dam collor revolutions which where all started by the cia. After Vazgen died LTP reemerged as a opposition. These things are not mere coincidences. There is a difference between weak and unstable. Armenia was weak during soviet days but it was not unstable and this was fine for the russian authorities. With the azeris gaining wealth because of their oil i doubt the russians concidered Armenia as the strong state they needed to keep down. I understand the russian strategy of keeping its neighbors under its thumb but Armenia is by far the last neighbor it needs to worry about as far as losing control over it because the Armenian authorities know full well without Russia there would not be a Armenia today. You can look at the crap the USA is doing today in LIbya and yesterday in Iraq as perfect examples of how the USA is willing to interfere in the internal affairs of other states.

[gregory]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

it is illogical to think Russians role behind Vazkens death , since he had closer links with them , contrary if they planed to assassin a leader more probably that could have been Levon ,who is not very friendly terms with Russia and bloody close with USA , so what is the solution of this puzzle.In my point you shouldnt look any other country the guys are in Armenia and think they can carry on an atrocity whenever they can, if this case and similar acts are not being solved no one will credit the current political power,

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

Yes russia does want the region to stay weak but not unstable. Vazgen was russias man in fact he was close friends with the russian defence minister and was dating his daughter. It would make no sense for russia to take out its own guy and have his replacement get cozy with nato. It makes a lot of sense for the usa to take out what they see as a leader with close ties to the russian army. I do not think you are giving the cia enough credit in their ability to get things like this done.

Unstable = weak. A controlled unstability, controlled and moderated by Russian influences, is what Russia wants. Only Russia could ever think it could get away with assasinating a head of state and not leave a trail of evidence that would, at some future date, be revealed to the public. And as if America or Nato is fawning over Armenia!

[Haykakan]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

If there was foreign manipulation or actual involvement, then it was Russia. It is in Russia's interest to keep the Caucasus region unstable since that keeps both Armenia and Azerbaijan wanting to be close to Russia; only Russia has the state aparatus to ensure the truth could remain buried for ever; and if there was even the slightest chance of Russian involvement being revealed, Russia would think that Armenia is so much Russia's poodle that relations would not be harmed that much. So, plenty to win and nothing to loose.

Yes russia does want the region to stay weak but not unstable. Vazgen was russias man in fact he was close friends with the russian defence minister and was dating his daughter. It would make no sense for russia to take out its own guy and have his replacement get cozy with nato. It makes a lot of sense for the usa to take out what they see as a leader with close ties to the russian army. I do not think you are giving the cia enough credit in their ability to get things like this done.

[Haykakan]

Re: Why vazgen sarkisyan have been killed

well Armenia is week not having major percentage of people consensus of centre ideological path to define its political goal , here LTP figure is as person with no respect of being Armenian .look Turkeys prime minister tayyip what is doing respective of his political steps , he almost cleaned all the major arm forces leading untouchable figures , it is crazy such a unconventional steps which these figures have had very close ties with Izrael and USA, mind you Turkey is not powerful country but Tayyip took this decision and worked out fine , the current ruling political power discovered two big cells in Turkey ( Ergenekon, Balyoz although the two are link together their members were high ranking journalist, army Generals active or retired, Mafia bosses etc.)now he has more respect than any other of course I dont want to compare the two countries but Turkey in reality dont have any support externally and have a big problem with his Kurd population which already declared preparation of Autonomy but the political current power took decision and executed it , Armenia should do the similar way we should overcome our fears, if no corruption exist among Armenian political figures there will be no fear because we are well inspired and our political shield is un destructible against foregin intervensions.

Corruption has and will always exist in politics. Turky is no different-it has plenty of corruption there to but you cannot compare a country with the largest army in europe to Armenia. The turks have way more options to work with then our guys do. If the turkish leader wants something done he does it but if an armenian leader wants something done he has to get an ok from russia or usa first.. This is why the moves armenia makes are not always in its best interest and why we are not truely independent as a nation.