Nature of God

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Jenny I'm sorry, but it's just that I don't like ppl talking about religion like that. God has helped me many times in life, and that's why I'm extremly religious. When ppl doubt Him, I just can't stand it and I can even say cry. Haven't God helped u in something? Haven't u felt his exisence?

Nope.

It doesn't seem to occur to people that if they have been indoctrinated with something since their youth, their mind will be conditioned to feel certain things and accept certain things uncritically. I was never indoctrinated, and so I have never felt anything like that. I look at the complexity of the human ear, and I'm not moved to a religious response. I just marvel at the capabilities of natural law.

Furthermore, I have never felt any need to invoke supernatural help when I have a problem. I've solved them perfectly well on my own. If God couldn't create beings that were capable of coping without him, he isn't much of a God.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname Again, reason is known to produce knowledge and can provide a detailed justification of its epistemic principles. You have yet to provide any account of how knowledge may be brought about through faith.

Reason has no trouble admitting that which is reasonable. Faith that goes against reason is a dangerous tool that can be used to justify anything from suicide bombing to the rape of virgins and the sacrifice of innocent human beings. It is morally reprehensible to hold a belief based on faith alone with no other justification.

Again, you don't get it. Reason and the material knowledge cannot deal with the ethereal, that is what we call faith. You keep jammering about this yet you cannot grasp it. You cannot grasp that human intelligence is finite, therefore cannot conceive of the infinite, and reason simply cannot admit to the spiritual and faith. Faith and reason are as far from each other, as earth is from pluto. That is the problem in philosophy, the most difficult problem that it cannot overcome, faith and reason. The encroachments of reason on faith and faith on reason is like the eclipses of the sun or moon, and when they happen, the source of light and its reflection become useless.

"Morally reprehensible" is not how I'd put it, for science perishes by systems that are nothing but beliefs and mans own mind. Thus when all is said and done, you are either an atheist or a believer. Philosophy and reason have taught us nothing about the nature of our sensations, our perceptions, our cognizances, the origina of our thoughts and ideas, but words, or even our souls.

Thus to try to answer the immaterial, the ethereal and faith through knowledge of reason, is as foolish for you to go into biological sciences to study human consciousness. Thus your whole purpose in this thread is an oxymoron. Until you learn to make the distinction of faith and reason, you cannot understand how anyone can believe in God.

[Jenny]

I'm sorry, but it's just that I don't like ppl talking about religion like that. God has helped me many times in life, and that's why I'm extremly religious. When ppl doubt Him, I just can't stand it and I can even say cry. Haven't God helped u in something? Haven't u felt his exisence?

[felizitation]

Originally posted by loseyourname I'm not asking to be convinced of anything. But if you have a particular spiritual worldview, then I would like to know why you have that. You don't seem to have anything specific, in which case I am asking what the point of believing in any spiritual aspect to existence is in the first place. How does this affect the way you actually live your life or evaluate anything in this world?

I don't know exactly how you would define "spiritual worldview".
I do not believe in religions, i do believe in God, for the reasons I exposed just before.
Now, knowing if God is more love or whatever, i don't wonder that. Maybe i'm athee, but i believe in God. And it doesn't change anything in my life. I have my opinion on the "right" and the "wrong", induced by my education more than religion.

So, as you said, I should not have any spiritual worldview. But i have a worldview.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Jenny To how beleiving affects life.
That's a question asked by ppl who don't know christianity. We all sin a lot, jesus is there to save us from them so that we won't burn in hell. All you need to do is belive, not pray only for a ticket to heaven but bcoz some1 who loves us that much deserves it.

Start a separate Christianity thread and I can get into that.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Faith must flow from some source within us, when the evidence of that which we believe is not presented to our senses, or it will in no case be the assurance of the truth of what is believed. The consciousness is the highest possible evidence of God and soul, if not the only real proof of the verity of certain things. What you would call reason and rely on that, that is our imperfect human reason, will only lead us away from the truth in God and with regard to the invisible and of the infinite, if we determine to believe nothing but that which it can demonstrate or not to believe that which it can by its processes of logic prove to be contradictionary, unreasonable or absurd. Reason cannot measure infinity. Faith begins where reason ends. For example, to reason, infinite justice and infinite mercy and love in the same being are inconsistent and impossible. One can argue that one excludes the other.

Reason cannot admit that a supreme intelligence infinitely powerful and wise must have created the boundless universe. It also tells us we are as unimportant in it as the bacteria or the ants or wolves, just part of the cycle. It is faith that and the foundation of faith that we believe God is interested in us.

Again, reason is known to produce knowledge and can provide a detailed justification of its epistemic principles. You have yet to provide any account of how knowledge may be brought about through faith.

Reason has no trouble admitting that which is reasonable. Faith that goes against reason is a dangerous tool that can be used to justify anything from suicide bombing to the rape of virgins and the sacrifice of innocent human beings. It is morally reprehensible to hold a belief based on faith alone with no other justification.

[Jenny]

To how beleiving affects life.
That's a question asked by ppl who don't know christianity. We all sin a lot, jesus is there to save us from them so that we won't burn in hell. All you need to do is belive, not pray only for a ticket to heaven but bcoz some1 who loves us that much deserves it.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname That is very eloquently put, but it still doesn't change any of the logical difficulties inherent in a spiritual worldview, nor does it cite any form of evidential or rational basis for having that worldview. I'm not going to affirm or deny what we ALL have. To do so would be idiocy. You can't possibly know what every single human being who has ever existed wants or feels.

You've been acting like I'm attacking you, and I'm not. I'm not against spiritualism. I actually happen to suspect that there may very well be a spiritual aspect to human existence, but the more I critically analyze that proposition, instead of just having the blind, unquestioning faith that you seem to be advocating, the more I am left with nothing.

Of course we all long for immortality. A person's survival instinct, which is explainable in purely biological terms, is enough to account for this. It isn't necessary to invoke the actual existence of anything infinite. Neither space nor time is thought to be infinite by physicists who study them. That is only a common misperception. They are said to be unbounded, and there is an important difference.

Faith must flow from some source within us, when the evidence of that which we believe is not presented to our senses, or it will in no case be the assurance of the truth of what is believed. The consciousness is the highest possible evidence of God and soul, if not the only real proof of the verity of certain things. What you would call reason and rely on that, that is our imperfect human reason, will only lead us away from the truth in God and with regard to the invisible and of the infinite, if we determine to believe nothing but that which it can demonstrate or not to believe that which it can by its processes of logic prove to be contradictionary, unreasonable or absurd. Reason cannot measure infinity. Faith begins where reason ends. For example, to reason, infinite justice and infinite mercy and love in the same being are inconsistent and impossible. One can argue that one excludes the other.

Reason cannot admit that a supreme intelligence infinitely powerful and wise must have created the boundless universe. It also tells us we are as unimportant in it as the bacteria or the ants or wolves, just part of the cycle. It is faith that and the foundation of faith that we believe God is interested in us.

[spiral]

The whole concept of Christianity is based on one word which is love. Love never dies that's why God wouldn't kill himself coz he's filled with love.
God is immaterial, he doesn't have a material body but a soul. He;s with us through it and through angels ofcourse.

Christianity doesn't believe in destiny so humans are free to do whatever he wants. God being almighty knows our future, and just like us he tries to deny it sometimes and gives us a chance to regret and ask for forgiveness simply bcoz he loves us not because he doubts the future or anything

I can talk forever about this but then again I don't want to bore u. No matter what God loves us so show a little more respect and let ur arguments be logical. And ofcourse if u hadn't read the bible and have shallow knowledge of ur religion don't bother arguing..

You must be very happy and content with your life.... ?

[felizitation]

Originally posted by Jenny The whole concept of Christianity is based on one word which is love. Love never dies that's why God wouldn't kill himself coz he's filled with love.
God is immaterial, he doesn't have a material body but a soul. He;s with us through it and through angels ofcourse.

Christianity doesn't believe in destiny so humans are free to do whatever he wants. God being almighty knows our future, and just like us he tries to deny it sometimes and gives us a chance to regret and ask for forgiveness simply bcoz he loves us not because he doubts the future or anything

I can talk forever about this but then again I don't want to bore u. No matter what God loves us so show a little more respect and let ur arguments be logical. And ofcourse if u hadn't read the bible and have shallow knowledge of ur religion don't bother arguing.

"Religion" and "God" can fall into two distinct parts:
The God, for many religions, is the "same" (at least monotheistic ones). Religion is said to "kill" God, and I agree with that: it's something killing the faith through material manifestations of its existance (my belief, you won't change it, i won't change yours)

Religions came after God, and this point is sure, since the opposite would be completely illogical (and since religions are made from humans - thus we wan apply human logic )

I've never read the bible. I don't think I will. I have "faith", not because someone told me, just because it seems logical to me.

So, you talked about religions, and what about God ?