Existence of the Soul

[loseyourname]

Mousy, you pay no attention to what I say. The first time this was brought up, I acknowledged the place of faith in everyday life, using the example of the the existence of the state of Minnesota. You said it was a lame example, and seem to have forgotten, as you have gone on to use the existence of China to demonstrate the place of faith in everyday life. There is a huge difference between having faith that the eyewitness testimony of billions of people, as well as numerous artifacts, photographs, and other bits of physical evidence accurately portray the existence of a land mass, and believing in supernatural constructs that go against the evidence and logic based entirely on faith. That is what you are not grasping.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname Mousy, you pay no attention to what I say. The first time this was brought up, I acknowledged the place of faith in everyday life, using the example of the the existence of the state of Minnesota. You said it was a lame example, and seem to have forgotten, as you have gone on to use the existence of China to demonstrate the place of faith in everyday life. There is a huge difference between having faith that the eyewitness testimony of billions of people, as well as numerous artifacts, photographs, and other bits of physical evidence accurately portray the existence of a land mass, and believing in supernatural constructs that go against the evidence and logic based entirely on faith. That is what you are not grasping.

The two are more closer than you would think. For it would never satisfy the human conscience to accept something out of nothing and in fact, I have said this repeatedly, it is our free will, our self consciousness, rather our consciousness of ourselves as an organismic consciousness, and our innate conscience of morality, of right and wrong, which highlight an order, something beyond ourselves, and to each individual their faith in God is reaffirmed by different experiences and moments of spiritual exaltation that would defy common sense explanations.

Moreover since reason and science only deal with the material world, and we as spiritual beings are able to conceive of and think beyond the material and ask questions of the immaterial, it is necessary to have faith, for science and reason are limited and only confined to our material world, they cannot make claims of knowledge of the immaterial, which can can to some of us be evident through faith and our own moments of transcendence. We have a deep seated desire to believe in other words, and this doesn't make any difference whether the belief is in the assertion that China exists, or that God exists, is of no importance, for we are essentially exercising a belief. For all cultures ancient and modern peoples have believed in this concept of something else creating humans whether God or Gods and morality is testament to this, moreover our sense of right and wrong in our conscience. We have a desire for love, a desire for sex, and a desire for God. We aren't born with desires, unless satisfaction of those desires exists. We desire friendship, we desire sex, we desire love, just as we desire for a connection with God for an existence beyond this life. In fact, research by neuroscience suggests that our brain is "hardwired", in other words, genetically programmed, for belief. Whether this reflects an intelligence beyond this world is based on ones worldview.

Freud asked "If truth of a religious doctrine is dependent on an inner experience which bears witness to that truth, what is one to do about the many people who do not have this rare experience?" In other words, this is what I'd attribute to you, the question of "What about me?" He realized he cannot disprove God, since one cannot prove a negative, so the alternative was to discredit it. So if atheists have all the answers and are sure that God doesn't exist, why does the question of Gods existence continue to preoccupy them? More often than not, it is unbelievers that will spark off conversations like this, which you have. Often many nonbelievers who are adamant in denying the existence of God, are quick to pray when their airplane hits turbulence, or are in a bank when a robber comes in. Of course, many will deny, but it is a natural sign of intuition, of the soul reaching out praying for something higher to hear.

We can never really explain away God nor can we rest until that deep seated desire is satisfied. Of course this is all jibber jabber as with all your discussions on God and soul turn into tautology, since its my view against yours.

[sleuth]

Moreover since reason and science only deal with the material world, and we as spiritual beings are able to conceive of and think beyond the material and ask questions of the immaterial, it is necessary to have faith, for science and reason are limited and only confined to our material world, they cannot make claims of knowledge of the immaterial

Our spirit suffers from other needs than those inherent in life..Spirit suffers from corruption,the corruption of REASON!!!!!!!!!

We are within the spirit,inside the brain.Ideas,logic,order,Truth, REASON: we sacrifice all to the void of death. beware of logic ,oseyourname,>..you don't realize how far our hatred of logic can lead us.Faith and logic are 2 different extrims...where is faith there is no place or logic.

There are omens in Thought.In the narrow tank which we call "" thought"' the rays of the spirit rot like old straw.

what the xxxxkkk...what the hell i am doing here ... xxxx you all...materialistic...go search for reason, corrupted reason...

[loseyourname]

If you want to separate faith from science, fine, but I don't see any reason to separate it from reason. Reason deals with ideas and concepts, which are surely immaterial thing. Furthermore, as has been pointed out, although our mind seems inextricably linked to our brain as long as we are alive, there is no reason to think that our mind is equated with our brain. As reasoning and logic are tools of the mind, which may very well be, and I suspect is, immaterial in nature, reasoning and logic are tools of the immaterial. Every time you argue with me, you are using reason. You have no choice. It is the only way the human mind comes to conclusions. Faith is used only as a supporting premise. If faith alone led to any conclusions, they would be based on absolutely nothing. I could say something along the lines of "I believe the universe was created by intelligent trolls who promptly committed suicide and left us only with the laws of physics the decided on," and back it up solely with faith. Don't get me wrong; I'm not equating this with genuine religious faith such as your own, which as you have already pointed out, is backed up by certain religious experiences you have had as well as teleological considerations. That is fine, just so long as you admit that it is the whole of these considerations, and not simply faith, that has led you to the conclusion you have been led to.

Sleuth, relax. If the spirit withers because it is connected to the human brain, whose fault is that? If you want to transcend the nature of your human body, then kill yourself. As I have already pointed out, if your mind exists as something separate from your brain and something immaterial, you will still not escape the inescapable rules of logic. It is the laws of physics that govern the physical world. The non-physical is governed by logic and the principles of mathematics. If it was not, what would we be left with?

[sleuth]

If i see and think beyond of materia..if i really think there is something more beyond of this world ,beyond the shell we live in,beyond object and mind,it dosn't mean i am religious lol...and the reason you searching for is really corrupted,Reason belongs to materia..don't even try to find it beyond materia..

[loseyourname]

So what, then? In the immaterial, spirit world anarchy reigns supreme? There is no right and wrong? You can simultaneously be something and not be that same thing? How would you know what to expect from one moment to the next? In a world with no rules, how would you even know you will continue to exist? Are there no causal relationships? Is there no passage of time? Is everything static? No change, no movement? What happens in this world? How does it happen?

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by sleuth Our spirit suffers from other needs than those inherent in life..Spirit suffers from corruption,the corruption of REASON!!!!!!!!!

We are within the spirit,inside the brain.Ideas,logic,order,Truth, REASON: we sacrifice all to the void of death. beware of logic ,oseyourname,>..you don't realize how far our hatred of logic can lead us.Faith and logic are 2 different extrims...where is faith there is no place or logic.

There are omens in Thought.In the narrow tank which we call "" thought"' the rays of the spirit rot like old straw.

what the xxxxkkk...what the hell i am doing here ... xxxx you all...materialistic...go search for reason, corrupted reason...

Reasons from the Bible to Study Logic

Here's a link for you, sleuth, from www.christianlogic.com.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname If you want to separate faith from science, fine, but I don't see any reason to separate it from reason. Reason deals with ideas and concepts, which are surely immaterial thing. Furthermore, as has been pointed out, although our mind seems inextricably linked to our brain as long as we are alive, there is no reason to think that our mind is equated with our brain. As reasoning and logic are tools of the mind, which may very well be, and I suspect is, immaterial in nature, reasoning and logic are tools of the immaterial. Every time you argue with me, you are using reason. You have no choice. It is the only way the human mind comes to conclusions. Faith is used only as a supporting premise. If faith alone led to any conclusions, they would be based on absolutely nothing. I could say something along the lines of "I believe the universe was created by intelligent trolls who promptly committed suicide and left us only with the laws of physics the decided on," and back it up solely with faith. Don't get me wrong; I'm not equating this with genuine religious faith such as your own, which as you have already pointed out, is backed up by certain religious experiences you have had as well as teleological considerations. That is fine, just so long as you admit that it is the whole of these considerations, and not simply faith, that has led you to the conclusion you have been led to.

Sleuth, relax. If the spirit withers because it is connected to the human brain, whose fault is that? If you want to transcend the nature of your human body, then kill yourself. As I have already pointed out, if your mind exists as something separate from your brain and something immaterial, you will still not escape the inescapable rules of logic. It is the laws of physics that govern the physical world. The non-physical is governed by logic and the principles of mathematics. If it was not, what would we be left with?

Speaking of tautology, I will address this no more as I'll highlight the basics.

Reason is important, yet confined only to the material world. Where reason and human intelligence is finite, faith takes hold. That is the way it goes. All human actions since the dawn of man have been idealistic and involved faith in one way or another. Our drive to a certain unknown place, whatever our purpose is, is so because of our faith to reach a certain goal, reach a certain point, and perhaps live past our deaths.

The idea that all knowledge comes from research and no knowledge from revelation is another metaphysical assumption.

The rest is circular.

[sleuth]

loseyourname I don't need preaching..i have my own reigion.
Enough play on words,syntactic dodges,formula _juggling....we do not know the true mystery of the body or the cosmic laws of existance,false scholars blind in the other world,philosophers and spirituals who pretend to reconstract the SPIRIT.the least act of creation is more complex and revelatory than any metaphysics.So leave me alone you know nothing of the spirit,you ignore its most secret and essential ramifications,those fossil imprints so close to our own origins,those tracs which occasionally we are able to discover deep in the most unexplored lodes of our minds.
In the name of your OWN LOGIC lol i say you_---- life stinks loseyourname....

[spiral]

Can you guys please give me YOUR explanation of 'soul'


I understand ‘soul’ to be something supernatural.

I can’t really explain my understanding of it- it’s something I see, and understand, and imagine in my head, but when I try to put it in words, it doesn’t come out quite right.