Ideal Form of Government

[surferarmo]

Originally posted by sSsflamesSs I rest my case.

Isnt that what we do though? We are imperfect beings striving to be perfect. Government and political economy, provide the arena for such a goal. Government itself strives to collectively bring us to perfection. Tis the reason it exists. You have not rested your case. Anon distains government, however, he provides an alternative solution. You however just state that government is imperfect. My response to you is "So what are you trying to say?" And if there is no perfect government, then what is the population of the world to do?

[sSsflamesSs]

Originally posted by surferarmo Isnt that what we do though? We are imperfect beings striving to be perfect. Government and political economy, provide the arena for such a goal. Government itself strives to collectively bring us to perfection. Tis the reason it exists. You have not rested your case. Anon distains government, however, he provides an alternative solution. You however just state that government is imperfect. My response to you is "So what are you trying to say?" And if there is no perfect government, then what is the population of the world to do?

Did I ever imply that there IS a solution? Because there isn't.

Either that, or we have not discovered enough to present a solution...we as humans.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by surferarmo Your answer is wrong. Anarchy leads to government. That is the very reason we are submitting ourselves to a state in the first place. Now go cut your hair into a mohawk and stick your toungue out.

Besides, the political economy requires a means of distribution of resources. Anarch does not have a system which can hold people accountable, nor does it have a system which handles the distribution of precious scarce resources.

Government leads to anarchy, since per the second law of thermodynamics, all systems move towards disorder, and they all crash.

And contrary to Hobbesian doublethink, no State comes into existence via "Social Contracts" but all do so through violence".

We are submitting ourselves to the State because of our ignorance. That is why the forefathers realized the need for education in order to prevent tyranny, which this country has morphed into.

Few of you Statists who claim to be "Republicans" haven't even bothered to read the debates between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists, or George Washington's Farewell Address. Force, unregulated is wasted and is destructive. The blind force of "the people" is a force that must be economized and also managed. It must be regulated by intellect. It is because force is unregulated that revolutions prove failures and States do not function, and you have individuals thinking for themselves. Hitler highlighted this brilliantly in Mein Kampf. The masses are a means to an end, a force that must be harnessed by those who rule.

[SexyAries]

The ideal form of goverment is NO goverment! If there was an ideal goverment..people would all be payed equally, and all would pay equal taxes, costs would be reasonable and there would be no need for law enforcment or a judicial branch of goverment because everyone would have common sense and knowledge of what is right and wrong there would be no curruption or embezzlement and everyone would just get along! However, we are blessed with being human and humans are blessed with having certain traits that don't allow us to have a perferct world, or an ideal goverment. In conclusion, Our goverment is currupt, we can't change it ever, there will be no "ideal" anything, so we might as well just sit here and wait untill we die!

[loseyourname]

You guys are getting chippy and ignoring the intent of this thread. An ideal is, as surfer said, that which you strive for. The ideal form of government would be that which best serves the purpose you think government should serve. It need not be perfect; it need only be the best you can imagine.

If certain people here do not believe any government is necessary, fine. Stay out of a thread that is meant to be a discussion of government. As you said, everyone here already knows how you feel. I want to know how the rest of them feel.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname You guys are getting chippy and ignoring the intent of this thread. An ideal is, as surfer said, that which you strive for. The ideal form of government would be that which best serves the purpose you think government should serve. It need not be perfect; it need only be the best you can imagine.

If certain people here do not believe any government is necessary, fine. Stay out of a thread that is meant to be a discussion of government. As you said, everyone here already knows how you feel. I want to know how the rest of them feel.

Quiet you. Sip on some of sense juice before posting. "Government" can imply in its various definitions, the individual in itself a form of government over itself, or the family as the form of government. Thus one might assert that the ideal form of government is familial government, or individual government.

Now that the issue is settled, I will not leave the thread but maximize my post count.

[spiral]

I don’t understand the concept of “no government”

Whether we consider a small scale of social reciprocal-ity or the large scale political government.

Some sort of ‘government’ always emerges amongst people.

We can see this on small scales,-- in the forum, in the media, corporations, -basically any group of people who come together, for any reason, eventually form a ‘government’ amongst themselves.

It’s inevitable.

No government means a completely idle society.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse "Government" can imply in its various definitions, the individual in itself a form of government over itself, or the family as the form of government. Thus one might assert that the ideal form of government is familial government, or individual government.

That's good. Now expand upon that. I want to hear some original ideas here. How can families or even individuals come together to run a state? There has to be some kind of system in place, even if its entirely unregulated. I remember you speaking about market-like forces driven entirely by self-interest working politically rather than just economically? How would that work exactly? Who would keep the peace, and how would any national identity be formed? Would there be policy of any sort? How would resources be allocated? What laws would exist?

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname That's good. Now expand upon that. I want to hear some original ideas here. How can families or even individuals come together to run a state? There has to be some kind of system in place, even if its entirely unregulated. I remember you speaking about market-like forces driven entirely by self-interest working politically rather than just economically? How would that work exactly? Who would keep the peace, and how would any national identity be formed? Would there be policy of any sort? How would resources be allocated? What laws would exist?

You do know what the definition of 'government' is don't you? I have a secret, it's not jus the State. Government can mean anything really. The State is just a form of government that has emerged since Machiavelli.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse You do know what the definition of 'government' is don't you? I have a secret, it's not jus the State. Government can mean anything really. The State is just a form of government that has emerged since Machiavelli.

All I'm asking is that you be a little more specific. Is that so much to ask? Do you want us to regress to tribalism, or exist as autonomous family units? If so, how is this feasible? Same questions. How will the peace be kept? How will contracts be enforced? What will be done with people who attack other people or steal from other people? How will land resources be allocated? Surely you must have some actual ideas rather than just anti-state rhetoric.