Gods of Eden Discussion

[loseyourname]

I think you just have to approach it with an open mind. I've already read a ton of material pertaining to UFO research, and have seen all of the reports, as well as the rebuttals of all the reports, so I have a lot of prior knowledge which makes the hypothesis put forth by Bramley not nearly so out there as it seems at first glance. Plus, I've looked at a lot of analyses of the Sumerian and Egyptian texts that he cites, so I have a pretty idea of what he's talking about. Still, if all you have is the basic knowledge base given one in a public school education, this book is going to seem so far out of left field that it will almost seem like a joke, at least I'm guessing.

I, for one, am perfectly willing to keep an open mind and let the man make his case. I doubt it will be perfect or anything even approaching conclusive, but it's probably unreasonable to expect that of any hypothesis put forth that pertains to such ancient events.

[Anonymouse]

Okay, moving away from the author, what do you think about the theory ( which this author isnt the first or last to present ) that intelligent intervension accounts for the missing Neanderthals and the sudden appearance of homo sapiens? And by intervention I mean space men, engaging in what we know today as genetic engineering.

[spookyghost]

Originally posted by Anonymouse
What do you think of the author in Chapter 1 when he states, "War can be its own valuable commodity". or, "War can be an effective tool for maintaining social and political control over a large population"?

Moreover, what do you think of the source he attributes it to? The "gods" that came down and gave civilization to man? Or the case he makes for UFOs?

well war is used to control many things, population is one of them, if you think of it literally in controlling (over population), also controlling the economy, controlling men who are possibly drafted, the homes, familys, life in general during war time and such, also products that are made, where all the money is going, what the money is spent on and such.

take the war in iraq for example and whats going on in america. for a while it controlled the way we thought and felt about certain terrorists, or tyrant leaders. For some it gave them more patrionism, to some it gave them more hatred for there state and government, for those running our country and its politics.


im going off subject :< because i didnt read it yet, but i am going to buy it soon, its just that im so freaking busy , i have a thingie this sunday, and one on april 2nd too :P i hope it goes well

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Okay, moving away from the author, what do you think about the theory ( which this author isnt the first or last to present ) that intelligent intervension accounts for the missing Neanderthals and the sudden appearance of homo sapiens? And by intervention I mean space men, engaging in what we know today as genetic engineering.

It certainly would go a long way toward explaining the rather ridiculous mythological beliefs dogmatized in many religions. Still, the evidence presented by him and by the others I've read seems to be entirely a reintepretation of ancient texts. In order to use this as evidence, it is necessary to take them completely at face value, and assume that a literal interpretation is the correct one. It's hard to say that that is truly the case, given that many texts of the same nature, especially those written by later cultures, are known to be mythological, such as stories of cyclops and dragons and the grail legend and Beowolf and even Moby xxxx. In order to take this at face value, it must be assumed that texts that were previously believed to be of a mythological origin are not, and are in fact a truthful documentation of what actually took place.

Given that, if one does take the texts at face value, it's hard not to see the striking pattern that emerges. For once you do assume it actually happened - and I think we can safely say these beings weren't really gods - it leaves little room for any hypothesis other than that they were extraterrestrial beings. Of course, other things need to be explained if that is the case. For one thing, why do they look so much like us? It has long been thought that extraterrestrials, that would likely live in a far different environment, might not even have the same metabolic processes we do, much less have a human form. They also possess the same senses and they communicate the same way. If this is indeed the case, then there becomes even more explaining to do, although obviously it is not within the province of this book to do so. I'm really going a bit off-topic here.

Again, I think it's important to be open-minded about this. It would be a shame to just dismiss the hypothesis out of hand simply because it goes against traditional beliefs, or because it completely shatters the basis of all religion. It must be dealt with on its own terms.

Also, I forgot to mention, it would answer some questions that currently do not have answers, the very least of which is the question of why Neaderthal man disappeared so suddenly and Sapiens appeared equally suddenly, as well as the extremely rapid growth in brain size from earlier humans to sapiens humans, which exceeded geometrically the growth rate observed in other evolutionary paths. It would also explain the very sudden appearance of advanced civilizations that were very similar to one another on separate continents, as well as why civilization initially seemed to take a step backward before it took a step forward.

[spookyghost]

so what is he saying ?

that UFOs's are the main reason we are here, or one of the main ways our technology has gotten so far ? or is what it is today?

for example the pyramids engineering , or the Mayan and Aztec's mathematical genius, at such an old time in history where it wasn't possible to have so much knowledge or technology

does he believe that we originated from these UFOs ?and that we evolved over time to be something different ? but that we are apart of what they are ?

so he basically believes the gods or god of eden is or are UFOs, interesting

or that they control everything about the human race is, does and will become.

neato book

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname It certainly would go a long way toward explaining the rather ridiculous mythological beliefs dogmatized in many religions. Still, the evidence presented by him and by the others I've read seems to be entirely a reintepretation of ancient texts. In order to use this as evidence, it is necessary to take them completely at face value, and assume that a literal interpretation is the correct one. It's hard to say that that is truly the case, given that many texts of the same nature, especially those written by later cultures, are known to be mythological, such as stories of cyclops and dragons and the grail legend and Beowolf and even Moby xxxx. In order to take this at face value, it must be assumed that texts that were previously believed to be of a mythological origin are not, and are in fact a truthful documentation of what actually took place.

Given that, if one does take the texts at face value, it's hard not to see the striking pattern that emerges. For once you do assume it actually happened - and I think we can safely say these beings weren't really gods - it leaves little room for any hypothesis other than that they were extraterrestrial beings. Of course, other things need to be explained if that is the case. For one thing, why do they look so much like us? It has long been thought that extraterrestrials, that would likely live in a far different environment, might not even have the same metabolic processes we do, much less have a human form. They also possess the same senses and they communicate the same way. If this is indeed the case, then there becomes even more explaining to do, although obviously it is not within the province of this book to do so. I'm really going a bit off-topic here.

Again, I think it's important to be open-minded about this. It would be a shame to just dismiss the hypothesis out of hand simply because it goes against traditional beliefs, or because it completely shatters the basis of all religion. It must be dealt with on its own terms.

Also, I forgot to mention, it would answer some questions that currently do not have answers, the very least of which is the question of why Neaderthal man disappeared so suddenly and Sapiens appeared equally suddenly, as well as the extremely rapid growth in brain size from earlier humans to sapiens humans, which exceeded geometrically the growth rate observed in other evolutionary paths. It would also explain the very sudden appearance of advanced civilizations that were very similar to one another on separate continents, as well as why civilization initially seemed to take a step backward before it took a step forward.

In fact, if I have understood both Sitchin and him correctly, much of the "mythologies" that we know of today, are indeed based on reality in some weird sort of way. I know in our age of the 21st century, the age of reason and science, we find it hard to believe that the ancients revered such gods or creatures, but this does present itself as an interesting theory. As you said once we accept the premise of the author, that such beings existed and were in fact responsible, then there lives little room for anything else. For example, we have endless references to serpents, and dragons, i.e. serpent symbolism in all cultures, and an endless reference to "gods" as well.

Now you stated something of interest to me:

It's hard to say that that is truly the case, given that many texts of the same nature, especially those written by later cultures, are known to be mythological, such as stories of cyclops and dragons and the grail legend and Beowolf and even Moby xxxx.

Now I am aware there is alot of mythology tied to cyclops' and such, but as far as your reference of the dragon, that is where you caught me. The dragon is said to be a reptile, scaly skin, it is part of the serpet symbolism that is found in all parts of the world. The entire culture of China is riddled with the dragon. For example, the Chinese calender zodiac symbolizes animals that all exist, except for the dragon. Is it really likely that they would represent animals that all exist except for one, the dragon?

For example, this was a story, very surreal and perhaps a hoax, in the UK's Daily Telegraph, 1-24-4:



A Baby Dragon, Or A Bad Joke?

[spookyghost]

okay, some parts of the dragon are close to the glass, which explains why its not that murky as the other parts, but some of the dragon that should be murky isnt murky, its very clear and it might be photoshoped or something

i dunno about it, but that would be pretty kick ass if there really were dragons a long time ago

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname
Also, I forgot to mention, it would answer some questions that currently do not have answers, the very least of which is the question of why Neaderthal man disappeared so suddenly and Sapiens appeared equally suddenly, as well as the extremely rapid growth in brain size from earlier humans to sapiens humans, which exceeded geometrically the growth rate observed in other evolutionary paths. It would also explain the very sudden appearance of advanced civilizations that were very similar to one another on separate continents, as well as why civilization initially seemed to take a step backward before it took a step forward.

Going back to what you said here. I find this interesting. So this theory technically would explain the Neanderthal enigma, as well as other aspects of evolution. Now let's listen to what Bramley says here. Bramley says that whoever created mankind, had some secret knowledge that they didn't want mankind to know, i.e. spiritual knowledge. He also states as part of his thesis that the people who are in control today, and those that have always been in control, have been in possession of that knowledge. This varies little from what the conspiracy author David Icke says, that the "global elite" are a "shape-shifting reptilian" race that are several bloodlines who have ruled the world since the gods of Eden.

He states that those who control the world today, have create da world of dependency, of how we are all dependent on the system. I know I am jumping ahead here, and I apologize but the point I am trying to make includes this. Those who control us today, are, according to Bramley, those that had knowledge of mankinds origins or the spiritual knowledge. How mankind symbolized in the story of "Adam" was created is a difficult one to believe at first, however, if one accepts the theory presented by Bramley, it means that Adam was created as a slave, to till the soil. The similarities are within the creation stories of mankind, all have a common root, Sumeria.

Bramley writes:

The Old Testament tells us that Adam was designed to be a servant. His function was to till the soil and care for the lush gardens and crops owned by his "God". As long as Adam and Eve accepted their servitent status and obeyed their ever-present masters, all of their physical needs would be met and they would be permitted to remain in their "paradise" indefinitely. There was, however, one unpardonable sin that they must never commit. They must never attempt to seek certain types of knowledge. Those forbidden forms of knowledge are symbolized in the story as two trees: the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" and the "tree of life." The first "tree" smybolizes an understanding of ethics and justice. The second "tree" symbolizes the knowledge of how to regain and retain one's spiritual identity and immortality.

Adam and Eve obeyed the commandments of their masters and lived in material bliss until another party entered the scene. The intervening party was symbolized in the story as a snake. The serpent convinced Eve to partake of the "fruit" from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil".

This story symbolizes something greater than mere entertainment. Many mythologies in geographically separated cultures feature trees in a central role, such as Yggdrasil, the Norse World Tree, Ahuehuete, the Aztec Tree of Life, the Buddhist Bo Tree. Carl Sagan wrote an interesting book about this metaphor in The Dragons of Eden.

However, my point is to arrive at Bramley's main point, that society, rather civilization was handed down to humans from "gods" who also created the modern homo sapiens, i.e. genetically engineered them, and have been in control ever since the dawn of time, in what he refers to as "the Brotherhood". Today, those that control the world, the "elite" are in possession of secret knowledge, that the profane masses do not know. In every age and in every century there have always been these secret orders, and societies that have carried knowledge that sets them apart from the rest of the herd, gives them the ability to rule.

As evidence for our genetically encoded past, in the evolution thread, I pointed to the symbols 11, 22, and 33, all multiples of 11, and all can be found in the human body, master numbers within our DNA. That today's modern "brotherhood" or "occult" or "masons" and "Skull and Bones" have symbolism of sacred numbers such as 11, 22, and 33, is coincidence or so we believe.

The human has a total of 33 vertebrae, the human skull ( the Skull and Bones fraternity comes to mind ) has a total of 22 bones, and the human ribs have a total of 11 bones. Now if we connect this to history and the events that surround the Masonic mysticism of the number 33, why all major events happen along the 33rd parallel, we'd tend to dismiss it. I've posted this before but here it is again:

http://www.daywilliams.com/masons_mystery_33rd_parallel.html

Or for that matter if we see the number 11 symbolism surrounding the occultic event of Sept. 11, we'd tend to dismiss it as fancy or delusional or paranoid.

So are or could the modern elite in some way be linked to what the Bible referred to as "Elohim"?

[antihippy]

I think the author starts out with way too many presuppositions. He just assumes outright that intelligent extraterrestrials are the cause of all unexplained aerial phenomena, humans are spiritual beings, old mythological texts are meant to be interpreted literally, and that warfare is the best way to keep people in bondage. Not to say that he can't be right, but he really just speculates from there without first giving much in the way of evidence for these starting points.

There are a couple of questions that come to mind while I'm reading. One, why would all these organizations he calls the "Brotherhood" still be interested in promoting warfare and keeping humans in spiritual bondage? Maybe he answers it later in the book, but it's hard to see what these people can possibly gain from doing this. He also has little in the way of evidence for their direct intervention in anything. Another thing is that even if they did have control over certain key power positions, there is no way they could have control over all of them. That's just too much control. Human events are too unpredictable, and there are too many people out there with too many voices and too many ideas and too many guns. My own family has pretty strong political connections and a lot of them have even held offices, and I can tell you for damn certain that none of them are mystics and none have ever been under the influence of extraterrestrial intervention into their decision-making.

[antihippy]

What happened to all the people that said they were going to read this?