Evolution and Religion

[Anonymouse]

He says I'm not posting anything meaningful. That's funny coming from the guy who's been posting nothing but desperate non-issues for the past page. And you're right, the hemoglobin and chlorophyll part was not related, which makes me wonder why you kept drilling at it. Loser, you really need to work on your discussion skills, because if you want to smear me, you will have to do better.

[loseyourname]

Dude, you're not even posting anything meaningful. I read the entire article and I discredited the entire article. Like I said, that isn't even the point. It would just be nice if you'd admit that you made a mistake. The comment you made about hemoglobin and chlorophyll wasn't even related to that article. I guess you don't remember.

[Anonymouse]

Posting an article with such glaring lies in it is no better than lying yourself. Especially when I show you, point by point, exactly why the article is wrong, and you don't seem to comprehend any of it. I'd like to think you're smarter than that, and you're just obstinate, but I'm starting to have my doubts. I'm starting to think you really are just an idiot and none of this will ever get through to you. This isn't even about evolution any more. I could care less whether or not you believe it. I just care that you are honest in these threads, and that you cut and paste from honest sources, and if something you post is shown to be wrong, you will say "okay, fine" and move on. It's not like the fact that hemoglobin and chlorophyll being nothing like each other proves evolution correct. It's hardly relevant at all. It would just be nice if you acknowledged that you made a mistake. I know you won't, but still.

Anyway, I'm not really all that concerned with having the last word, because I know I won't. I'm a little more realistic than that.

Perhaps if you read the entire articles, and remained in context, things would make more sense, but like I said, when someone is desperate to discredit the other side, anything will qualify, even cherry picking statements. And now in order to redeem himself as an honest candidate in the discussion, he plays the integrity. Really, it's only an internet forum, have a beer.

[loseyourname]

Posting an article with such glaring lies in it is no better than lying yourself. Especially when I show you, point by point, exactly why the article is wrong, and you don't seem to comprehend any of it. I'd like to think you're smarter than that, and you're just obstinate, but I'm starting to have my doubts. I'm starting to think you really are just an idiot and none of this will ever get through to you. This isn't even about evolution any more. I could care less whether or not you believe it. I just care that you are honest in these threads, and that you cut and paste from honest sources, and if something you post is shown to be wrong, you will say "okay, fine" and move on. It's not like the fact that hemoglobin and chlorophyll being nothing like each other proves evolution correct. It's hardly relevant at all. It would just be nice if you acknowledged that you made a mistake. I know you won't, but still.

Anyway, I'm not really all that concerned with having the last word, because I know I won't. I'm a little more realistic than that.

[hyebruin]

someone needs to bring a camera on the 20th of june (or whenever you guys are gonna meet) to capture mouse and lose hugging and making up!! haha!!!! tooo bad i won't be there to see it ....

[Anonymouse]

I bet your busy replying now, point by point.

[Anonymouse]

Okay, let's do a little tally here.

Anonymouse: " Evolution maintains the universe began naturally, as opposed to supernaturally. Creation begins with the premise of God, the other with premise that there is no God."

There's one lie. Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God, nor does it have anything to say about where life came from initially."

Let's see, that is why it's a naturalistic philosophy, why most evolutionists are atheists, and since they had to come up with an alternative way of how the world is, they came up with the big bang. In other words, evolution is a philosophy, a belief, a metaphyiscal assumption of how we supposedly came to be the way we are. There is no escaping this. I don't see a lie there, other than you inserting the word "lie" to make yourself look valid.

Anonymouse: "Chlorophyll in plants and human hemoglobin differ in chemical makeup by one molecule. The difference being one magnesium molecule exchanged for one iron molecule."

These are your exact words regarding chlorophyll and hemoglobin. Obviously this isn't true, and I even posted pictures of both molecules so you could see this."

I thought you would at least do an honest job of copying and pasting. Why not copy and paste the exact post and page number so we can see. Did you see the article I posted where it contained that information? Once again text manipulation on behalf of loser.

Anonymouse: " The hemoglobin between humans and fish vary, and can anyone for once think that if that were change for either species they would function normally?"

This is just idiotic obstinance, displayed after I had explained how changing a given amino acid only has a 3 in 20 chance of altering the function. Anyone with a very basic knowledge of biochemistry can tell you that.

This doesn't make sense loser. I remember specifically clarifying this point that the author was talking about something totally different, you warped it out of context. Did you bother to read the article when you so often accuse me of it?

Anonymouse: " Furthermore the statement you quoted about change was actually referring to amino acids and change regarding them, not hemoglobin, so get your criticisms straight."

I'm not even sure what your point was with this, given that our discussion was about the amino acid sequence within a hemoglobin molecule.

This is where I clarified the point of the author which you nicely dodged by avoiding it and in turn redirecting it into something totally different to avoid your blunder. So since you saw that I clarified my position you go on to "I don't know your point, but earlier you were talkin about amino acids and hemoglobin" defense.

Anonymouse: "It still begs the question of why each organism is geared to that specific number of hemoglobins."

Another fallacy. All organisms have one type of hemoglobin composed of four subunits. The number does not vary.

You know loser anyone can play with semantics, but believe it or not that is what I was referring to. In order to appear on the high ground I don't manipulate text. Your whole treatise was text manipulation and cherry picking. Do you feel this was anything productive regarding the discussion of evolution, or was this corroborating the thread in General Talk about "Last Word" and getting back at Anonymouse for making me feel inferior?

That's five flat-out lies at least. I challenge you to find even one instance where I have lied in this thread.

This seems like you're desperate to somehow smear me, or take away credibility from me. You have deviated from discussing the actual topic into cherry picking text as a hobby.

Now if you have nothing of actual substance to contribute, you might as well leave the cherry picking text manipulation of having the last word out of the thread. As the thread "Last Word" said, often times the discussion deviates from the original point, which reached its culmination with your silly post.

[loseyourname]

Okay, let's do a little tally here.

Anonymouse: " Evolution maintains the universe began naturally, as opposed to supernaturally. Creation begins with the premise of God, the other with premise that there is no God."

There's one lie. Evolution has nothing to say about the existence or non-existence of God, nor does it have anything to say about where life came from initially.

Anonymouse: "Chlorophyll in plants and human hemoglobin differ in chemical makeup by one molecule. The difference being one magnesium molecule exchanged for one iron molecule."

These are your exact words regarding chlorophyll and hemoglobin. Obviously this isn't true, and I even posted pictures of both molecules so you could see this.

Anonymouse: " The hemoglobin between humans and fish vary, and can anyone for once think that if that were change for either species they would function normally?"

This is just idiotic obstinance, displayed after I had explained how changing a given amino acid only has a 3 in 20 chance of altering the function. Anyone with a very basic knowledge of biochemistry can tell you that.

Anonymouse: " Furthermore the statement you quoted about change was actually referring to amino acids and change regarding them, not hemoglobin, so get your criticisms straight."

I'm not even sure what your point was with this, given that our discussion was about the amino acid sequence within a hemoglobin molecule.

Anonymouse: "It still begs the question of why each organism is geared to that specific number of hemoglobins."

Another fallacy. All organisms have one type of hemoglobin composed of four subunits. The number does not vary.

That's five flat-out lies at least. I challenge you to find even one instance where I have lied in this thread.

[Anonymouse]

Desperate? You're the one that lied about speciation never having been observed, only to backpedal and downplay it once it was shown that is had been. You also lied about hemoglobin and chlorophyll being nearly identical molecules. Chlorophyll isn't even a protein. It's built from methyl groups, not amino acids.

If you're going to make a claim, back it up. How is evolution not falsifiable?

Where did I lie exactly loser? Who is misquoting who out of context to appear on the moral high ground? I said no changes on macro level have been observed. You just can't stomach that evolution has been shot down, and you have to fiddle with trivial semantics about misquoting me on chlorophyll or speciation, or what not.

[loseyourname]

Desperate? You're the one that lied about speciation never having been observed, only to backpedal and downplay it once it was shown that is had been. You also lied about hemoglobin and chlorophyll being nearly identical molecules. Chlorophyll isn't even a protein. It's built from methyl groups, not amino acids.

If you're going to make a claim, back it up. How is evolution not falsifiable?