Tweet
I have nothing to say about this. I just want to see what Dan and Fadix have to offer us.
-
-
I have read up on both revisionism and the traditional arguments, and I have come to a conclusion there are alot of questions that lend doubt on the traditional story of the Holocaust. You will find that the debate has turned into nothing but childish name calling of "believer" vs. "denier".
History is a process, not a point in time, thus the Holocaust, like anything else, comprises of, and is a series of events, not one giant event. Thus the task of the historian is to ask the proper questions regarding the many events that are in the Holocaust.
Basically all one has to do is look at Nuremberg to see it was a kangaroo court, and from that it follows there are at least, to some degree, errors in the historicity of the Holocaust. Nuremberg has many, many, many flaws in the way we know "justice" has to operate.
The 6 million figure for example was an allegation that surfaced about Jews in World War I, that is it was claimed 6 million Jews had died in World War I. Now it is established that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust. It used to be claimed that bulk of the Jews died at Auschwitz - 4 million. The number at Auschwitz was then lowered to 1.5 million from what I remember. Shouldn't that have then reduced the 6 million figure?
But then again, the Holocaust is referred to as "Shoah", and there is a certain religious aura to the 6 million figure which is itself steeped in Kabbalistic mysticism. For example, aside from the 6 million figure, there is the 6 pointed star, the 6 letters that spell Israel. Anyone that is familiar with the Kabbala knows that it is heavy on numerology and symbolic stuff such as this.
Ultimately one must look at this politically/socially. There are now laws in effect in Europe and Canada, that forbid questioning of the Holocaust, under Hate Crime Crimes. Now as much as a Turk can deny, or question the Genocide, a person should be allowed to question or deny the Holocaust. It is not a moral society in which a person is not allowed to choose to think freely, to have thoughts molded by coercion and force of legislating hate crimes. To question is to face the consequences. A moral person has the freedom to choose, whether it is accepting the Holocaust or not, just like a moral person has the ability to choose between killing or not killing. If we take that choice away, can we still call it moral?
Furthermore, if there is incontrovertible facts that support the Holocaust thesis, in a way to eliminate all questions, why are there laws that forbid questioning it? Moreover, the Holocaust has acquired extortion racket status as documented in the book by Norman Finklestein, entitled "The Holocaust Industry", which I mentioned in my book list as a book people should own.
You will find that the same Jews that cried about being victims of Nazi aggression are all too quick to persecute Palestinians. Hardly the behavior of victims, I'd say.Last edited by Anonymouse; 03-22-2004, 07:42 PM.Achkerov kute. -
As a side note, let's close this thread and/or delete it. I personally don't want this discussion here, as it is too controversial and ultimately results in name-calling, etc. Take it to Dan's forum. Moreover, I don't want some who-has-nothing-better-to-do Jew from the ADL and JDL browse websites to see who dare speaks against the Jewish version of events, and ultimately be ostracized.Last edited by Anonymouse; 03-22-2004, 07:44 PM.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
Relax, turbo. I'll keep close tabs. If anyone is out of line, they'll be edited and warned.Comment
-
I didn't know there were laws that forbade questioning the Holocaust. What laws?Furthermore, if there is incontrovertible facts that support the Holocaust thesis, in a way to eliminate all questions, why are there laws that forbid questioning it?
True.That is exactly what victimization behavior is. In humans and animals victimization increases the propensity for violence.
Patlajan, are you a psych major?
cuz a lot of your posts seem to relfect on theories of psycho-analysis.Comment
-
What about the holocaust, Loseyourname? You will have to refine your question. I can debunk, as many revisionists have, using scientific studies any of the claims that "holocaust" historians make.
I had been thinking about starting such a topic, but refrained from doing so because I was afraid it would raise all hell on the forum. At any rate, I am not interested in personal attacks and name-calling. I am interested in discussing historical truth and distortions of it.
I will start with the pictures. There are MANY photos of the alleged holocaust that have been proven to be fake or taken out of context.
One (among dozens) example of touched up photos is the following:
Real Photo:
Touched-up Photo (Simon Wiesenthal Center):
Simon Wiesenthal Center Caption for Photo:
"As these prisoners were being processed for slave labor, many of their friends and families were being gassed and burned in the ovens in the crematoria. The smoke can be seen in the background. June 1944".
The photo was promptly removed from the Simon Wiesenthal Center website after it came to their attention that the forgery was discovered.
Dysfunctional link: http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/gallery/...0/pg22035.html
The real photo is available in:
The Auschwitz Album. Beate Klarsfeld Foundation. First Edition published 1978. NY. Photo number 165.
Again, there are many photos that have been taken out of its historical context, and coupled with a caption, have been used as "proof" for the holocaust claims.
A lot of the photo literature on the Simon Wiesenthal Center (SWC) is based on captions that claim things that aren't explicitly obvious from the photos. For example,
Caption: "An old woman, together with her grandchildren, is seen on her way to the gas chamber. The mother was probably separated from her family during the "Selektion" process and sent to forced labor."
Caption: "The brutal murder of Hungarian Jews was not directed against individuals as such, but rather at the overall annihilation of all Jewish people. Having been "selected" by SS men for immediate extermination, these women, children and elderly people were marched straight to the gas chambers where they were murdered."
Caption: "Jewish women and children had to walk alongside the electrified fence toward the gas chamber. During the summer of 1944, the gas chambers at Auschwitz operated around the clock, killing hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews."
What proof do they have that these people were actually marching to the gas chambers?
Why would anyone need to touch-up a photo if they aren't lying about their claims?
Elie Wiesel's own "witness" accounts have been proven to be fake and revised at least 4 or 5 times, each time different claims about methods of death. And many many other survivors' accounts.
There have been numerous claims about methods of death, the most significant of which were the burning pits, where people were thrown alive, and burned to death. Scientifically, it's impossible to do that because you would need Oxygen to burn the bodies, and that's impossible in a pit.
Anonymouse is right, the 6 million jews dying claim was around during WWI.
About gas chambers - I will elaborate more when I have the time, here's a good link for now:
Germar Rudolf is a chemist who has studied the Auschwitz gas chambers and the cyanide residues and alleged Zyklon B being introduced into gas chambers through holes in the ceiling.
It has also been proven that the chambers that contained holes in the ceiling didn't have any cyanide residues, whereas those that did have holes, had cyanide residues. The claim of gas coming from showerheads (as seen in "The Devil's Arithmetic" and many other movies dealing with the "holocaust") is false. The showerheads were fake, and were installed by the Soviets.
You can read more about Rudolf's findings in his book Dissecting the Holocaust: The Growing Critique of ‘Truth’ and 'Memory':
ID: visitor
Password: download
And the Rudolf Report here (same username and pass):
And to end my post on a happy note, check out the ADL (Anti-Defemation League) HateFilter®, according to the ADL, "... a unique product that helps parents make sure that messages of hate and bigotry on the Internet do not reach their children". In other words, it filters out anything that criticizes Israel, Jews and the "holocaust."
Edit: Photo url's fixed.Last edited by Darorinag; 03-28-2004, 11:28 AM.Comment
-
I do not believe in psychoanalytic thought - a dead system of thought for that matter.
One that has been a victim is expected to have learned from their history, but it appears that one hasn't learned.
Even beyond that, the Holocaust is used as a justification for Israeli fascism. Zionism is nothing more than Nazism. Hate is a part and parcel of human nature, it's just in different times and different eras a different kind of 'hate' is always tolerated. Thus now we hate those who dare to critique the Holocaust, or offer evidences of racial differences. Hate, in other words, is only for those ideas which are not socially acceptable.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
In Germany, it would get you nowhere but jail or significant losses in your assets. Germar Rudolf, who was on his way to get his PhD in chemistry had his degree revoked from the university. Ernst Zundel rots in solitary confinement in Toronto, Canada, with no charges laid against him, on the bases that he is a "threat to national security." He was deported from USA, and settled in Canada. He remained in Canada for many years, applied for citizenship, refused citizenship because of jewish pressure on the government. His home has been attacked numerous times. He faces the danger of being deported to Germany. He hasn't violated ANY of the laws or the criminal code. He was banned from parliament hill before his scheduled press conference.I didn't know there were laws that forbade questioning the Holocaust. What laws?
Read more about him, here:
He was becoming too much for the zionists. They cleaned him off the table.
Robert Faurisson, another revisionist, was attacked by "anti-racists."Comment
-
Well Dan you just laid it all on the table didn't you? Why not proceed at a more rational course, rather than emotional. Some people here are unaware of what this is. Why not take it little by little, instead of just diving head on into the complex web of the Holocaust.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
Israel does not recognize the Armenian genocide. But you'd expect that it would wouldn't you?Originally posted by Anonymouse I do not believe in psychoanalytic thought - a dead system of thought for that matter.
One that has been a victim is expected to have learned from their history, but it appears that one hasn't learned.Comment
Comment