Philosophy

[Anonymouse]

OK, here's a topic: Happiness. I think this is a philosophical topic. If not, excuse my rambling.

Well, first of all, this just came to mind because I got into a discussion about it at school. I said that a perosn will always find something that he does not have, even if it seems that he has "everything." She went off on saying how a human being can be good and not want anything else and that a person can be their happiest. I said that just because a person wants something, does not make him/her bad. Anyways...

Can a person be their happiest? I mean, so happy and fulfilled that they will not need anything or anyone else? Is there even such a thing? Supposedly a person has everything he/she wants, but is that enough to stop this person from getting new wants? Can a person be fully satisfied? I say, No. Does not matter how much the person has, he will always want something else. Sure, he's happy about something that he gets at one point, but he later gets used to it and is not as happy. I mean, happiness is a phase. Reminds me of this. "Man is a creature that can get used to anything and I thik that is the best definitin of him!" - Fyodor Dostoyevski

Regarding your inquiry into happiness, I will quote the man who best describes what I agree with, and that is Boethius:

FOR a little space Philosophy was silent, and then she thus began again.

"I would now lead thee to felicity. The supreme good which men seek is happiness; at this they aim in various ways. Some seek it through wealth. Now, wealth cannot make its possessor independent and free from all want; yet this is what it seems to promise. Every day the stronger wrest it from the weaker without his consent. So the wealth which a man thought would make him independent, actually puts him in need of further protection.

"Other men imagine that they can secure felicity by means of rank, for official dignity clothes him to whom it comes with honour and reverence. Have, then, offices of state such power as to plant virtue in the minds of their possessors and to drive out vice? Nay, they are rather wont to signalise iniquity than to chase it away. Thus, Catullus calls Nonius 'an ulcer-spot,' though 'sitting in the curule chair.' And even where high office brings dignity, does their repute last? Why, the prefecture, which was once a great power, is now but an empty name--a burden merely on the senator's fortune. The commissioner of the public corn was once a personage--now what is more contemptible than this office?

"But you may ask, Boethius, if the happiness of kings does not last? Well, antiquity is full of examples, as are these days also, of kings whose happiness has turned to calamity. There must needs be a balance of wretchedness in the lot of a king. The tyrant Damocles, who had made trial of the perils of his condition, figured the fears that haunt a throne under the image of a sword hanging over a man's head."

"Indeed," said I, "I see clearly enough that neither is independence to be found in wealth, not power in sovereignity, nor reverence in dignities, nor true joy in pleasures."

"Having set forth the form of false happiness, the next step is to show what true happiness is," said she. "That which is simple and indivisible by nature, human error separates, and transforms from the true and perfect to the false and imperfect. Happiness must not be sought in these things which severally are believed to afford only some of the blessings most to be desired. That is the true and perfect happiness which crowns one with the union of independence, power, reverence, renown and joy. It now remains that thou shouldst learn from what source this true happiness is to be sought. Since, as Plato maintains in the Timaeus, we ought, even in the most trivial matters, to implore the divine protection, what thinkest thou should we now do in order to deserve to find the seat of that highest good?"

"We must invoke the Father of all," said I, "for without this no enterprise sets out from a right beginning."

"THOU sayest well," said she. "Next, to consider where the dwelling-place of this happiness may be. The common belief of all mankind agrees that God, the supreme of all things, is good. Wherefore, lest we fall into an infinite regression, we must acknowledge the supreme God to be full of supreme and perfect good. But we have determined that true happiness is the perfect good; therefore, true happiness must dwell in the supreme Deity. Remember this, that the good is the sum and source of all desirable things, and that the essence of absolute good and of happiness is one and the same. But we have seen that God and true happiness are one and the same. Then we can safely conclude that God's essence is seated in absolute good, and nowhere else."

[Anonymouse]

Carl Jung? He's a swiss psychologist. And Zen stemmed from Buddhism and Taoism, it's originally chinese but the Japanese adopted it very strongly. Zen-Buddhism, is it's own school in many ways. Known as the School of Sudden Enlightenment.

The salvation of the world consists in the salvation of the individual soul.

~ Carl Jung

[Thai-Samurai]

Ah a wonderful quote. Carl Jung has said many good things. Oh man if it were still during the days where I could quote Jung from any page, off my memory. It's been over 2 yrs since I've read anything of his hardcore. Honestly though reading the Psychology of the Uncounscious and Jungs Seminar on Nietzsches Zarathustra, will give you profound insight into the workings of man, and the direction of evolution society is taking.

[XxgoeyxX]

OK, here's a topic: Happiness. I think this is a philosophical topic. If not, excuse my rambling.

Well, first of all, this just came to mind because I got into a discussion about it at school. I said that a perosn will always find something that he does not have, even if it seems that he has "everything." She went off on saying how a human being can be good and not want anything else and that a person can be their happiest. I said that just because a person wants something, does not make him/her bad. Anyways...

Can a person be their happiest? I mean, so happy and fulfilled that they will not need anything or anyone else? Is there even such a thing? Supposedly a person has everything he/she wants, but is that enough to stop this person from getting new wants? Can a person be fully satisfied? I say, No. Does not matter how much the person has, he will always want something else. Sure, he's happy about something that he gets at one point, but he later gets used to it and is not as happy. I mean, happiness is a phase. Reminds me of this. "Man is a creature that can get used to anything and I thik that is the best definitin of him!" - Fyodor Dostoyevski

I agree with you Sag. As much as we want something within our lives, rather its love or a car or new shoes, in the end we are always going to want more and need more. And yes happiness does seem to be a phase. We are happy for one thing, yet take that for granted once we have it. Reading your statement reminds me of Chuang Tzu because I love reading him and questioning everything I have done in my life. The reasons why I want more and need more and if it has ever made me truely happy in the end.

If no one minds reading I would like to post one of the chapters in the book. Its call "Supreme Happiness." I have read this chapter so many times, I've lost count. It really does help me understand my life a little more.


IS THERE SUCH A THING as supreme happiness in the world or isn't there? Is there some way to keep yourself alive or isn't there? What to do, what to rely on, what to avoid, what to stick by, what to follow, what to leave alone, what to find happiness in, what to hate?

This is what the world honors: wealth, eminence, long life, a good name. This is what the world finds happiness in: a life of ease, rich food, fine clothes, beautiful sights, sweet sounds. This is what it looks down on: poverty, meanness, early death, a bad name. This is what it finds bitter: a life that knows no rest, a mouth that gets no rich food, no fine clothes for the body, no beautiful sights for the eye, no sweet sounds for the ear.

People who can't get these things fret a great deal and are afraid ‑ this is a stupid way to treat the body. People who are rich wear themselves out rushing around on business, piling up more wealth than they could ever use ‑ this is a superficial way to treat the body. People who are eminent spend night and day scheming and wondering if they are doing right - this is a shoddy way to treat the body. Man lives his life in company with worry, and if he lives a long while, till he's dull and doddering, then he has spent that much time worrying instead of dying, a bitter lot indeed! This is a callous way to treat the body.

Men of ardor are regarded by the world as good, but their goodness doesn't succeed in keeping them alive. So I don't know whether their goodness is really good or not. Perhaps I think it's good ‑ but not good enough to save their lives. Perhaps I think it's no good ‑ but still good enough to save the lives of others. So I say, if your loyal advice isn't heeded, give way and do not wrangle. Tzu‑hsu wrangled and lost his body. But if he hadn't wrangled, he wouldn't have made a name. Is there really such a thing as goodness or isn't there?

What ordinary people do and what they find happiness in ‑ I don't know whether such happiness is in the end really happiness or not. I look at what ordinary people find happiness in, what they all make a mad dash for, racing around as though they couldn't stop ‑ they all say they're happy with it. I'm not happy with it and I'm not unhappy with it. In the end is there really happiness or isn't there?

I take inaction to be true happiness, but ordinary people think it is a bitter thing. I say: perfect happiness knows no happiness, perfect praise knows no praise. The world can't decide what is right and what is wrong. And yet inaction can decide this. Perfect happiness, keeping alive ‑ only inaction gets you close to this!

Let me try putting it this way. The inaction of Heaven is its purity, the inaction of earth is its peace. So the two inactions combine and all things are transformed and brought to birth. Wonderfully, mysteriously, there is no place they come out of. Mysteriously, wonderfully, they have no sign. Each thing minds its business and all grow up out of inaction. So I say, Heaven and earth do nothing and there is nothing that is not done. Among men, who can get hold of this inaction?


I hope you enjoyed reading this SagGirl. I dont know if you have read Chuang Tzu, but if you havnt you must.

[spiral]

Goey, maybe it's because I'm not familiar with his writings/beliefs...but from what I just read, he doesn't really say much. It's like....nothing.

He makes no point...perhaps he is practicing "inaction".

[XxgoeyxX]

OOh he is talking about inaction. In the other chapters as well. What I meant is that he tells us what we think happiness is and what it really isnt. What people find happiness in. Thats why I like reading it. Kind of reminds you that the material world doesnt bring you happiness. Which is the basic point. That is all.

[HyeJinx1984]

He says everything and nothing. As always it's up to interpretation... but I got something out of it. Nice post Goey .

[SagGal]

I hope you enjoyed reading this SagGirl. I dont know if you have read Chuang Tzu, but if you havnt you must.

I did enjoy reading that and I'll definitely read Supreme Happiness. I especially liked

I take inaction to be true happiness, but ordinary people think it is a bitter thing. I say: perfect happiness knows no happiness, perfect praise knows no praise. The world can't decide what is right and what is wrong. And yet inaction can decide this. Perfect happiness, keeping alive ‑ only inaction gets you close to this!

Thanks. :-)

[spiral]

He says everything and nothing. As always it's up to interpretation... but I got something out of it. Nice post Goey .

Everything and nothing= nothing.

...at least in this case.

[Anonymouse]

Everything and nothing= nothing.

...at least in this case.

It's more like your basic wisdom.