Diversity In France!

[ArmenianKid]

i really cant understand how a flood of people can immigrate into a country. then xxxxx about the country who is letting them stay there.

Oh wait we get a lot of that in the US to...

[TomServo]

i really cant understand how a flood of people can immigrate into a country. then xxxxx about the country who is letting them stay there.

Oh wait we get a lot of that in the US to...

I believe Algeria was an official "department" of France. At least Algiers and Oran were.

[Siamanto]

There is no doubt that if France was not plagued with millions of these immigrants it would not be in this situation right now. The whole argument about shortage of labor and how these immigrants are there to provide labor is horsepucky as well. As the article indicates many of them are unemployed, and knowing socialistic France, they all probably live off the State's trough. Had France respected its homogeneity it would not be in this situation. Japan had the option of importing millions of boat people for labor, however, they chose not to. The price they paid was increased costs, but for them it's worth it. Meanwhile the rest of the Western European countries and America can dabble in their diversity mantra.

Just curious, how much time have you spend in France? Would you care to share with us the "facts???" that seem to exist only in your mind. You're so far from reality that I don't know where to start and I don't have much time.
FYI, the French Society - in many regards - is such there is much more homogeneity in France that most of the US - excluding states like Arkansas and Alabama.
You need to travel a little bit and please don't base your knowledge on @si @sav that you hear on TV or read in the media, in the US.

Let me also add that stating that one culture/society is more homogeneous - or any other attribute - than another, simply translates an ignorance of either one of the cultures/societies or the complexity of a culture/society in general. Oversimplified and simplistic comparative statements about two cultures/societies are simply absurd.

That my friend is a matter of opinion.

That is a matter of knowledge. European Art - sculpture, painting - has been greatly enriched by African elements; contemporary classical music has incorporated African polyrhythmy and pop music has African roots etc. etc.

[Siamanto]

i really cant understand how a flood of people can immigrate into a country. then xxxxx about the country who is letting them stay there.

Oh wait we get a lot of that in the US to...

You have to keep in mind that the rioters are young and most of them are French born. It is hard to tell how many of them are Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian or...

[ArmenianKid]

I still don't see how unemployment warrents this kind of behavior. marches in the street, sure why not. Burning cars, making fuel bombs, and threating revolution? thats something else entirely.

[Siamanto]

I still don't see how unemployment warrents this kind of behavior. marches in the street, sure why not.

A social crisis is usually - probably always - the result of a multitude of causes and is complex in nature; but, of course, can be triggered by simple events and may give the impression that it is of a simpler nature.
In this case, unemployment is neither the reason of the crisis, nor the event that triggered it. It reflects a deeper problem, a social crisis; the expression used in France is "social fracture." The event that triggered it is the death - by electrocution - of two adolescents running away from policemen. The situation is comparable to the LA riots that were triggered by the Rodney King trial, but reflected a deep social crisis.
The situation with North Africans - or Africans - is not as acute and critical as the "social fractures" in the US i.e. the Black Community or the "Mexicans" in LA.
It is the failure of the French Society to integrate some of the immigrant communities and, of course, employment can help but is not enough.

Burning cars, making fuel bombs, and threating revolution? thats something else entirely.

xxxxtail Molotov are facts of life in many countries - including Europe; maybe, your reference is what is called a "demonstration" or "protest march" in the US.
Yes, burning cars, buses, warehouses and businesses is destructive; but anger is a human emotion and, often, the first step to a more constructive approach/attitude. It is fortunate that - unlike the Bush Administration - the French Government - and Society - is not in denial and retaliation is not considered as the answer.
Just curious, how did you come to "threating revolution?"

[Anonymouse]

Just curious, how much time have you spend in France? Would you care to share with us the "facts???" that seem to exist only in your mind. You're so far from reality that I don't know where to start and I don't have much time.

FYI, the French Society - in many regards - is such there is much more homogeneity in France that most of the US - excluding states like Arkansas and Alabama.
You need to travel a little bit and please don't base your knowledge on @si @sav that you hear on TV or read in the media, in the US.

Oh how dare anyone criticize your precious France! Since when has living in France been a prerequisite for discussing about France? Talk about a fallacy. It doesn't take a genius to make the observation that France is steeped heavily in socialistic tendencies and is the typical example of a modern welfare state. Another one would be Germany.

If you want to discuss the issue at hand, do so, but refrain from making me the subject, saying supposedly I need to travel more in order to then qualify for a discussion. To make another point, I never once mentioned homogeneity for comparitive purposes bringing in the example of the United States. You did.

Let me also add that stating that one culture/society is more homogeneous - or any other attribute - than another, simply translates an ignorance of either one of the cultures/societies or the complexity of a culture/society in general. Oversimplified and simplistic comparative statements about two cultures/societies are simply absurd.

I never stated this, but now that you raise it, we can state that one society is more homogenous in relation to others. Contrary to the post-modern dictum where it's all relative, we can engage in comparative points, whether it may displease some people or not.

That is a matter of knowledge. European Art - sculpture, painting - has been greatly enriched by African elements; contemporary classical music has incorporated African polyrhythmy and pop music has African roots etc. etc.

That is not what I was talking about. Pay attention. Every culture obviously is influenced by others. I am speaking about the supposed claim that diversity is a strength, and somehow it enriches the host populations culture, and therefore it justifies millions of immigrants alien to that society.

[ArmenianKid]

A social crisis is usually - probably always - the result of a multitude of causes and is complex in nature; but, of course, can be triggered by simple events and may give the impression that it is of a simpler nature.
In this case, unemployment is neither the reason of the crisis, nor the event that triggered it. It reflects a deeper problem, a social crisis; the expression used in France is "social fracture." The event that triggered it is the death - by electrocution - of two adolescents running away from policemen. The situation is comparable to the LA riots that were triggered by the Rodney King trial, but reflected a deep social crisis.
The situation with North Africans - or Africans - is not as acute and critical as the "social fractures" in the US i.e. the Black Community or the "Mexicans" in LA.
It is the failure of the French Society to integrate some of the immigrant communities and, of course, employment can help but is not enough.






xxxxtail Molotov are facts of life in many countries - including Europe; maybe, your reference is what is called a "demonstration" or "protest march" in the US.
Yes, burning cars, buses, warehouses and businesses is destructive; but anger is a human emotion and, often, the first step to a more constructive approach/attitude. It is fortunate that - unlike the Bush Administration - the French Government - and Society - is not in denial and retaliation is not considered as the answer.
Just curious, how did you come to "threating revolution?"

i was reading a thing on yahoo news and on a french blog website a member or supposed member said they were doing it to create a new france. since the guy was in his house on a damn blog website i doubt he was even a member of the groups doing it. but its a possiblity.

[Anonymouse]

i really cant understand how a flood of people can immigrate into a country. then xxxxx about the country who is letting them stay there.

Oh wait we get a lot of that in the US to...

It's simple. These people in their millions are alien to France, thus they do not care for that civilization. When you don't respect your national survival and import millions of elements foreign to the host society, this is what happens. Multiracial, multicultural societies do not last. They are eventually destroyed and change the nature of that society.

I still don't see how unemployment warrents this kind of behavior.

It doesn't.

[Siamanto]

Oh how dare anyone criticize your precious France! Since when has living in France been a prerequisite for discussing about France?

Of course, ignorance is bliss. Why should we have enough understanding, knowledge of or exposure to about what we arrogantly state? Your recurrent cheap shots about France are quite noticeable. It would have been enjoyable or constructive, only if you had the minimal required exposure/knowledge.

It doesn't take a genius to make the observation that France is steeped heavily in socialistic tendencies and is the typical example of a modern welfare state. Another one would be Germany.

Did anybody deny that - fortunately - France, like many other European countries, believes in and has integrated Socialistic values. Your oversimplifying model and understanding of Socialism is a bit immature and limited to mono-party regimes/experiences such as the Soviet Union. It it also conditioned by the US obsession with Socialism. You seem to have very little understanding of European Societies, their values and mechanisms. Of course, in many ways they are close to the US, but there exists enough differences that matter.

If you want to discuss the issue at hand, do so, but refrain from making me the subject, saying supposedly I need to travel more in order to then qualify for a discussion. To make another point, I never once mentioned homogeneity for comparitive purposes bringing in the example of the United States. You did.

I assure you that you need to travel and discover other models of society. Of course, traveling, here, does not mean tourism.

I never stated this, but now that you raise it, we can state that one society is more homogenous in relation to others. Contrary to the post-modern dictum where it's all relative, we can engage in comparative points, whether it may displease some people or not.

Yes you did state: "Had France respected its homogeneity it would not be in this situation."
Also, it's not about whether it would please or displease, it's about basing it on quality data and knowledge and having a constructive discussion or exchange of views. Your understanding of the French Society is very embryonic and distorted by the gossip one hears in the US.

That is not what I was talking about. Pay attention. Every culture obviously is influenced by others. I am speaking about the supposed claim that diversity is a strength, and somehow it enriches the host populations culture, and therefore it justifies millions of immigrants alien to that society.

I wonder who needs to "pay attention?"
Let me please remind you:

P.S. Yes, the Africans and the African Culture did enrich European and American Culture in a sensible manner.

That my friend is a matter of opinion.

That is a matter of knowledge. European Art - sculpture, painting - has been greatly enriched by African elements; contemporary classical music has incorporated African polyrhythmy and pop music has African roots etc. etc.s