What do you consider more important.....

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

I meant to say that there is MUCH that ‘modern’ science (meaning as it is right now) cannot understand, let alone study. (I don't remember what is said where.) There is a paradigm shift happening with mechanistic science happening right now (call that post-modern science, maybe). That is happening with study of intelligence. That shift will open all sorts of new avenues (and orders-of-magnitude more mystery to be studied) for exploration—but clinging to mechanistic science as ‘the answer,’ that all scientific study follows from, is something like when people clung to the belief that the Earth is flat. The scientific establishment can be as fundamentalist as any group, but true scientists (per what science really is) don’t cling to paradigms for the sake of clinging.

The only relevant correlation between skin color (and insert any other irrelevant quality) and ‘intelligence’ has to do with racism, sexism, and classism...--stuff made up by those with the 'other' mentality. Anonymouse--we can talk about 'roads' later, too.


"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." EINSTEIN

[jgk3]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

In the end, we must find balance by consulting both the mechanical sciences and this "post-modern science", which is why I listen to what everyone in this thread has contributed so far.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

In the end, we must find balance by consulting both the mechanical sciences and this "post-modern science", which is why I listen to what everyone in this thread has contributed so far.

I don’t care much about someone’s IQ score. I met a medicine man in the Amazon that was far more intelligent than anyone with a ‘high IQ’ score. Would he score well on a test? No. Is he more intelligent than anyone on this forum? Most people, yes.

PART of my point is that this standardized, self-proclaimed professional, definition of intelligence is really only self-serving.

---
Obviously some people are more gifted in some area than others… 'race' is not a factor in that.

Come on, now. This skin color issue is pure bullxxxx. That’s racism and classism at highest. I WOULD HOPE smart people would be beyond that absurdity, by now!

I GUARANTEE that ‘G-D’ (whatever name makes you feel ok, call that) is against racism, classism, sexism, and the rest. If people are so addicted to ‘isms,’ I try to lead people towards ecofeminism—getting rid of all sorts of oppression.

If you don't understand what I say (or etc.), please ask me.

[jgk3]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

We need these standardized tests to follow certain correlations with environmental and biological issues. We don't have to discriminate, but it's important to follow these correlations as they can provide all the insights that Mouse and Siggie are talking about.

These correlations don't equal to discrimination, that's an important point.
It's also important to note that these standardized tests can be abused and manipulated to suit the needs of an individual, but can just as easily have the methodology behind them used purely for scientific insight, and not for one's individual needs.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

We need these standardized tests to follow certain correlations with environmental and biological issues. We don't have to discriminate, but it's important to follow these correlations as they can provide all the insights that Mouse and Siggie are talking about.

These correlations don't equal to discrimination, that's an important point.
It's also important to note that these standardized tests can be abused and manipulated to suit the needs of an individual, but can just as easily have the methodology behind them used purely for scientific insight, and not for one's individual needs.

Standardized tests do an ok job measuring the willingness and abiltiy to learn among mostly white, middle-class kids (and a few, REALLY brilliant, 'outlier' kids, too.)

[jgk3]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

do you have any resources that can support this? (not disagreeing).

[Siggie]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

You're welcome. Just to make it easier for you, see below... And this is only on race.




Ethnic. Interesting. But read the rest.

---------------
Further, Anonymouse is quite correct that there are indeed racial differences. I initially questioned that myself as you can see earlier in the thread because I thought I had read somewhere that this gap had closed in more recent times, but I checked and while the difference isn't as high as it used to be (15 points), there is still a difference.

I don't know why it's so difficult to think there are group differences. People have no problems recognizing that different breeds of dogs have varying intelligence and temprement.

Yes, I am. What's the problem? Are we not animals?

Did you not read what I said at all? How can it be biased to blacks who have been in the US for generations and were educated in the US?

The only thing I can offer is that when I was administering IQ tests (the WAIS), I tested some Japanese students who had only been in the US between 1-4 years who outscored some whose families had been here for generations and thus knew the culture and the language.

Does biology not make different races look different? It's not that different. I'm not comparing a dog's intelligence to a humans. It's relative to their own species.

I never said race is causing a difference in intelligence, which seems to be what you keep trying to imply that I'm saying. I merely said that there's a correlation. When we can assign people a race, we can infer cause, until them, no one has said such a thing.

You think you're so clever. Nothing that you quoted above implied cause.

Saying there are differences means just that, that there is a difference. Not that being a member of that group causes the difference.

Yet again, you're showing how much you would benefit from the stats and methods education I recommended.
Give it up already.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

IQ measures WHAT?

I could certainly join Mensa based on their tests, but I don't believe 'IQ' is an accurate measure of intelligence.

[tunot]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

You think you're so clever. Nothing that you quoted above implied cause.

Saying there are differences means just that, that there is a difference. Not that being a member of that group causes the difference.

Yet again, you're showing how much you would benefit from the stats and methods education I recommended.
Give it up already.

I never said anything about cause. Learn to read first and then to write. I have every right to completely misinterpret you (though I don't see how hard it is to interpret you), because you have not at all been consistent, explicit, specific, and academic about your arguments. You slip in information as you go along, changing your tune when it suits you, and then blaming me for missing something that you never wrote, explained, or supported to begin with.

You have clearly said on numerous occasions that the research is imperfect. Instead of highlighting that, however, you cover it up to show that the research is reliable anyway, when even a primary school student can deduct that one imperfection is enough to discard the entire experiment and bury it in the grave of whoever invented it. You have not shown any critical thinking whatsoever in your so-called argumentation so far, instead resorting to false analogies, inexplicit definitions, blurred results, and ultimately self-defence mechanisms. It's funny how you have actually been supporting my argument, while you thought you were supporting yours.

Good night.

[Anahita]

Re: What do you consider more important.....

Hungry, they eat.
Fed, but not that hungry... they eat some.
SPOON FED, they refuse some.
Force fed, they don't eat.
Fefuse to eat, they spit in your face.

But, those who don't eat at all, die.

Maybe if people were not so hard on me, I *LIKE KARMA OR MAGIC* WOULD BE THE SAME.