War in The Middle East

[Armanen]

Re: War in The Middle East

Notice how many joos tend to always associate anti-israeli actions as anti-jooish too, which is of course a logical fallacy. It's akin to saying all zionists are joos.

[Palavra]

Re: War in The Middle East

if you're muslim, you're not supposed to think like that.

Idealism is a good thing but realism is better. Becoming religious does not mean We should be idiot.

If You are muslim, You should fight against your own country because of suppresion over muslims.(As we both know, Muslims are more free at UK or european countries.) will you?

I should add, Hamas was as disgusting as Israel. Both dont care for life of innocents and we can do nothing about this. No need to make, Israel our enemy. We should stay neutral and just help victims. Not israel or hamas.

the AKP is consolidating its position by alligning itself with public opinion in this issue.

AKP should lead public opinion, not to follow it. Specially, When we are so emotional..

[SoyElTurco]

Re: War in The Middle East

Idealism is a good thing but realism is better. Becoming religious does not mean We should be idiot.

If You are muslim, You should fight against your own country because of suppresion over muslims.(As we both know, Muslims are more free at UK or european countries.) will you?

You know the west has successfully achieved imposing its religion down the throats of non-westerners all over the world for the last 400 years? They continue to do so and expect peope to deal with them by interpreting things through their religion. Once we start talking about our own religion they immediately begin to call us "extremists" "radicals" "terrorists" "unrealistic" and what not.

This oppression stuff. think about. iraqi oil is stolen, metals from the congo and other afircan nations are stolen, oil from nigeria, angola, ecaudor and colombia is stolen. These people of these countries live in the mos despicable and inhumane conditions. The governments of these countries are all propped up by the western governments through the IMF and World Bank - essentially unilaterally imposing their own dictatorial governments on these people. Yet if any groups within these countries try to oppose these governments, they are silenced by violence and labeled terrorists.

All this stealing for what?

Why are most of these western governments creating all these horrendous atrocites for all these innocent people? Oh yeah, it so obvious: they need to make sure prices are low for their consumer citizens. So every british and american could drive an truck to a bar or disco every friday night to have an orgy, get drunk, vomit and have sex in their vomit. This is what these people do with their "freedom." This kind of freedom only works if someone else is paying for it, because this "freedom" eventually destroys itself. Do you think every single american and british love one another? its all garbage. americans and other europeans are all cannibals. - thats realism for you.

once i start talking we muslims should be together and not become like the consumer hedonistic west - does that make me an "idealist?" No. I am dispensing pragmatic and essential advice like "stop smoking because it causes cancer."

Palavra, canım kardeşim, don't fall in to bullsh¡t.

[Gavur]

Re: War in The Middle East

You can neither sell heaven or build it on earth.Submit only to goodness for goodness sake.

[hipeter924]

Re: War in The Middle East

Israelis evicted from New Zealand cafe
By Dan Goldberg · January 16, 2009

SYDNEY, Australia (JTA) – A Muslim cafe owner in New Zealand evicted two customers because they were Israeli.

Mustafa Tekinkaya, a Muslim from Turkey, heard Natalie Bennie and Tamara Shefa speaking Hebrew at his cafe in Invercargill on the South Island earlier this week and ordered them out.

“He heard us speaking Hebrew and he asked us where we were from,” Mrs Bennie told the local newspaper. “I said Israel and he said ‘get out, I am not serving you’. It was shocking.”

Tekinkaya said he was protesting Israel’s action in the Gaza Strip.

“I have decided as a protest not to serve Israelis until the war stops,” he said.

A complaint was lodged with the Human Rights Commission. New Zealand's race relations commissioner said Tekinkaya was in breach of the law.

Israel’s ambassador to New Zealand Yuval Rotem was scathing. “This anti-Israeli and anti-xxxish sentiment needs to be stopped,” he told The Southland Times.

“At this moment you don't need to bring the Middle East into New Zealand ... you need to take the spirit of New Zealand into the Middle East.” New Zealand is iconic among Israelis as being an outpost of civility.

Also this week, more than 100 pro-Israel supporters rallied on the steps of Parliament in Wellington, the capital. Holding olive branches, they held a minute’s silence for the 1,000-plus people who have been killed in the conflict.

Meanwhile, Father Gerard Burns, the Catholic priest who defaced a memorial to Yitzhak Rabin last week with paint and drops of blood, appears to have emerged unscathed from the incident. He has not apologized, and Wellington’s Catholic Church has not censured him, although Archbishop John Dew has apologized for father Burns’ actions.

Police have yet to decide whether they will lay charges.

Taken from: http://jta.org/news/article/2009/01/...w-zealand-cafe

I remember this,lol. There was a protest of 400 people against Israel in Auckland city alone, but there was a protest in the other city's as well. So it is funny how Australian media is portraying it since all the 100 people protesting for Israel are basically Israelis.

All the christian churches in New Zealand have in someway condemned Israeli's actions, and called for Hamas to stop firing rockets. But its funny how Australian media is trying to isolate things and say that there is only one man protesting against Israel.

Here is a less Pro-Israel article:

NZ Church Leaders’ statement on Gaza
Tuesday, 13 January 2009, 5:28 pm
Press Release: Christian World Service

NZ Church Leaders’ statement on Gaza

The leaders of New Zealand churches are deeply concerned about the dire situation in Gaza and support the call for an immediate ceasefire in the region

The escalation of violence and associated increase in civilian casualties is intolerable. It is time for concerted action to end the suffering of the 1.5 million people trapped within the 360 square kilometers of Gaza with little food, water and medicine, and under almost continuous attack from the land, sea and air.

Before the collapse of the ceasefire in December, the borders of Gaza were tightly controlled and movement in and out very difficult. Now the conditions are much more lethal. The consequences of this unparalleled pressure cannot be underestimated. Already many innocent civilians have been killed and injured. People are living in perpetual fear and growing numbers of people are in desperate need of food and water as well as medical treatment. The trauma will have a lasting effect on everyone and is undermining any possibility of negotiating a just and sustainable peace.

To date the international community has failed to broker a lasting peace. We urge the New Zealand government to do all that it can through the United Nations and through its own diplomatic efforts to call a halt to Israel’s military offensive and the Hamas attacks. New Zealand has an obligation to uphold the international community’s ‘Responsibility to Protect’ populations from war crimes as agreed at the United Nations’ Millennium Summit.

As followers of Jesus, who exercised his ministry of reconciliation in this troubled region, Christians are deeply concerned about xxxish-Palestinian enmity. While religion is often tragically used to fuel inherited hostilities, it can also be a force for shalom/salaam. It is our hope and prayer that all adherents of the three Abrahamic faiths in that region (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) might truly seek the way of peace and reconciliation to which their scriptures bear witness.

We encourage church members and all people of goodwill to:

- Pray for the victims and perpetrators of violence in Gaza and Israel.
- Pray for the success of diplomatic efforts between Hamas, the Israeli Government and the international community.
- Pray for peace and reconciliation.
- Advocate for the New Zealand government, world leaders and the United Nations to take effective action to renew the ceasefire in Gaza and work towards a just resolution of the conflict in the interests of long term security and peace.
- Support the Christian World Service and Caritas Gaza Appeals providing desperately needed food, fuel, water and medicines in Gaza.

13 January 2009
Jabez Bryce, Bishop of Polynesia
Anglican Church in Aotearoa New Zealand and Polynesia
John A Dew, Archbishop of Wellington
Roman Catholic Church of New Zealand
Rodney Macann, National Leader
Baptist Union of New Zealand
Garth McKenzie, Territorial Commander
The Salvation Army
David Moxon, Senior Bishop of the New Zealand Dioceses
Anglican Church in Aotearoa New Zealand and Polynesia
Graham Redding, Assembly Moderator
Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
Mia Tay, Clerk
Quaker Peace and Service Aotearoa New Zealand
Religious Society of Friends
Brown Turei, Bishop of Aotearoa
Anglican Church in Aotearoa New Zealand and Polynesia
Jill van der Geer, President
Methodist Church of New Zealand

^Notice how there are no Israeli's here

Because Israel doesn't want peace obviously.

[Federate]

Re: War in The Middle East

Song for Gaza - We will not go down

[Lernakan]

Re: War in The Middle East

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza's Offshore Gas Fields

The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.

This is a war of conquest. Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline.

British Gas (BG Group) and its partner, the Athens based Consolidated Contractors International Company (CCC) owned by Lebanon's Sabbagh and Koury families, were granted oil and gas exploration rights in a 25 year agreement signed in November 1999 with the Palestinian Authority.

The rights to the offshore gas field are respectively British Gas (60 percent); Consolidated Contractors (CCC) (30 percent); and the Investment Fund of the Palestinian Authority (10 percent). (Haaretz, October 21, 2007).

The PA-BG-CCC agreement includes field development and the construction of a gas pipeline.(Middle East Economic Digest, Jan 5, 2001).

The BG licence covers the entire Gazan offshore marine area, which is contiguous to several Israeli offshore gas facilities. (See Map below). It should be noted that 60 percent of the gas reserves along the Gaza-Israel coastline belong to Palestine.

The BG Group drilled two wells in 2000: Gaza Marine-1 and Gaza Marine-2. Reserves are estimated by British Gas to be of the order of 1.4 trillion cubic feet, valued at approximately 4 billion dollars. These are the figures made public by British Gas. The size of Palestine's gas reserves could be much larger.

Who Owns the Gas Fields

The issue of sovereignty over Gaza's gas fields is crucial. From a legal standpoint, the gas reserves belong to Palestine.

The death of Yasser Arafat, the election of the Hamas government and the ruin of the Palestinian Authority have enabled Israel to establish de facto control over Gaza's offshore gas reserves.

British Gas (BG Group) has been dealing with the Tel Aviv government. In turn, the Hamas government has been bypassed in regards to exploration and development rights over the gas fields.

The election of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2001 was a major turning point. Palestine's sovereignty over the offshore gas fields was challenged in the Israeli Supreme Court. Sharon stated unequivocally that "Israel would never buy gas from Palestine" intimating that Gaza's offshore gas reserves belong to Israel.

In 2003, Ariel Sharon, vetoed an initial deal, which would allow British Gas to supply Israel with natural gas from Gaza's offshore wells. (The Independent, August 19, 2003)

The election victory of Hamas in 2006 was conducive to the demise of the Palestinian Authority, which became confined to the West Bank, under the proxy regime of Mahmoud Abbas.

In 2006, British Gas "was close to signing a deal to pump the gas to Egypt." (Times, May, 23, 2007). According to reports, British Prime Minister Tony Blair intervened on behalf of Israel with a view to shunting the agreement with Egypt.

The following year, in May 2007, the Israeli Cabinet approved a proposal by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert "to buy gas from the Palestinian Authority." The proposed contract was for $4 billion, with profits of the order of $2 billion of which one billion was to go the Palestinians.

Tel Aviv, however, had no intention on sharing the revenues with Palestine. An Israeli team of negotiators was set up by the Israeli Cabinet to thrash out a deal with the BG Group, bypassing both the Hamas government and the Palestinian Authority:

"Israeli defence authorities want the Palestinians to be paid in goods and services and insist that no money go to the Hamas-controlled Government." (Ibid, emphasis added)

The objective was essentially to nullify the contract signed in 1999 between the BG Group and the Palestinian Authority under Yasser Arafat.

Under the proposed 2007 agreement with BG, Palestinian gas from Gaza's offshore wells was to be channeled by an undersea pipeline to the Israeli seaport of Ashkelon, thereby transferring control over the sale of the natural gas to Israel.

The deal fell through. The negotiations were suspended:

"Mossad Chief Meir Dagan opposed the transaction on security grounds, that the proceeds would fund terror". (Member of Knesset Gilad Erdan, Address to the Knesset on "The Intention of Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to Purchase Gas from the Palestinians When Payment Will Serve Hamas," March 1, 2006, quoted in Lt. Gen. (ret.) Moshe Yaalon, Does the Prospective Purchase of British Gas from Gaza's Coastal Waters Threaten Israel's National Security? Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, October 2007)

Israel's intent was to foreclose the possibility that royalties be paid to the Palestinians. In December 2007, The BG Group withdrew from the negotiations with Israel and in January 2008 they closed their office in Israel.(BG website).

Invasion Plan on The Drawing Board

The invasion plan of the Gaza Strip under "Operation Cast Lead" was set in motion in June 2008, according to Israeli military sources:

"Sources in the defense establishment said Defense Minister Ehud Barak instructed the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for the operation over six months ago [June or before June] , even as Israel was beginning to negotiate a ceasefire agreement with Hamas."(Barak Ravid, Operation "Cast Lead": Israeli Air Force strike followed months of planning, Haaretz, December 27, 2008)

That very same month, the Israeli authorities contacted British Gas, with a view to resuming crucial negotiations pertaining to the purchase of Gaza's natural gas:

"Both Ministry of Finance director general Yarom Ariav and Ministry of National Infrastructures director general Hezi Kugler agreed to inform BG of Israel's wish to renew the talks.

The sources added that BG has not yet officially responded to Israel's request, but that company executives would probably come to Israel in a few weeks to hold talks with government officials." (Globes online- Israel's Business Arena, June 23, 2008)

The decision to speed up negotiations with British Gas (BG Group) coincided, chronologically, with the planning of the invasion of Gaza initiated in June. It would appear that Israel was anxious to reach an agreement with the BG Group prior to the invasion, which was already in an advanced planning stage.

Moreover, these negotiations with British Gas were conducted by the Ehud Olmert government with the knowledge that a military invasion was on the drawing board. In all likelihood, a new "post war" political-territorial arrangement for the Gaza strip was also being contemplated by the Israeli government.

In fact, negotiations between British Gas and Israeli officials were ongoing in October 2008, 2-3 months prior to the commencement of the bombings on December 27th.

In November 2008, the Israeli Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of National Infrastructures instructed Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) to enter into negotiations with British Gas, on the purchase of natural gas from the BG's offshore concession in Gaza. (Globes, November 13, 2008)

"Ministry of Finance director general Yarom Ariav and Ministry of National Infrastructures director general Hezi Kugler wrote to IEC CEO Amos Lasker recently, informing him of the government's decision to allow negotiations to go forward, in line with the framework proposal it approved earlier this year.

The IEC board, headed by chairman Moti Friedman, approved the principles of the framework proposal a few weeks ago. The talks with BG Group will begin once the board approves the exemption from a tender." (Globes Nov. 13, 2008)

Gaza and Energy Geopolitics

The military occupation of Gaza is intent upon transferring the sovereignty of the gas fields to Israel in violation of international law.

What can we expect in the wake of the invasion?

What is the intent of Israel with regard to Palestine's Natural Gas reserves?

A new territorial arrangement, with the stationing of Israeli and/or "peacekeeping" troops?

The militarization of the entire Gaza coastline, which is strategic for Israel?

The outright confiscation of Palestinian gas fields and the unilateral declaration of Israeli sovereignty over Gaza's maritime areas?

If this were to occur, the Gaza gas fields would be integrated into Israel's offshore installations, which are contiguous to those of the Gaza Strip. (See Map 1 above).

These various offshore installations are also linked up to Israel's energy transport corridor, extending from the port of Eilat, which is an oil pipeline terminal, on the Red Sea to the seaport - pipeline terminal at Ashkelon, and northwards to Haifa, and eventually linking up through a proposed Israeli-Turkish pipeline with the Turkish port of Ceyhan.

Ceyhan is the terminal of the Baku, Tblisi Ceyhan Trans Caspian pipeline. "What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel's Tipline." (See Michel Chossudovsky, The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July 23, 2006)

[jgk3]

Re: War in The Middle East

wow, thanks lernakan, didn't know that.

[Lernakan]

Re: War in The Middle East

wow, thanks lernakan, didn't know that.

you're welcome enker

[yerazhishda]

Re: War in The Middle East

God Bless this Orthodox J'ew for stating the truth about Zionism and how it is forbidden by the Torah and how it was never accepted by J'ews until recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h58N8q0OQBw