Russian Georgian conflict

[Fedayeen]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Good, actually this community of 80000 people has no influence in politics but plays a major role in industrial domain. They are mostly well-off and I’d say rich (for Iran of course), the population is mainly concentrated on three main regions of the capital ( Ahmadinejad lives in one of those areas hugely populated by Armenians, 90%) with about 12 schools and many churches. It is the only minority in Iran that has the permission to teach its language and religion (kron) at schools, j ews, kurds, and other minorities cannot do so. But the country is not a hell for j ews, they are free to practice Judaism and surprisingly are the only Iranians allowed to travel to “ Israel”( in our passports it says: the holder of this passport in not entitled to travel to the occupied Palestine.)
We don’t have big problems right now but a few years ago we changed the stupid law on blood money concerning the minorities. In general, we get on well with Iranians and most of them love armeninas(it is reciprocal) and as soon as some meet an armenian, they start to praise some of their qualities. Our situation is way too different from that in Georgia or Turkey.

And then you have people here in USA who where born in Iran, and they say US should drop nuke and eliminate Iran

[Fedayeen]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

I guess you can say the same about Turks and Joos as well.

You can say the same thing for every country, and every group of people...because there are always bad and good people...

Growing up in Russia...Russians were such a mother xxxxers...the most racist people i have ever seen...i was the only Armenian, everyday was hell, do you know who where the people that stood up for me...Turks and Chechens...it maybe be hard for you to believe but thats the reality. You can take me to the moon and back but i cannot forget what "our enemies" have done for me

[TomServo]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

It's their own fault. They encouraged Armenian colonization of the north Caucasus and the Armenian community in Moscow and Saint Petersburg have been around since way before the 20th century. Let's not forget that tons of ethnic Russian Muscovites are actually immigrants from Siberia and other former Soviet republics.

It's what they get for their imperialism. They had to expand their empire all the way to the Far East, and this is how they inherited all the ethnic groups they love to hate.

[skhara]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Fedayeen,

May I ask where in Russia you grew up? In my experience, Russians in Moscow and those outside in the more rural areas have quite different attitudes.

[karoaper]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

In my experience, Russian girls were very friendly.

But, seriously Fed, I understand your personal experiences have left an impression, but the issue of Azeris or Georgians and their overall attitude against Armenia and Armenians, not individually but as a unity of people goes deeper than the matter of personal treatment you may have recieved from them, whether good or bad.

You said Russians were racist to you. I can understand that especially as a kid, such things can stay hurtful for a while. I myself lived in Moscow for a year and I've seen some of that myself. The worst thing I remember was when I heard once in a line an old grandma say that she would like to put all people of Caucusus against the wall and machine gun them all. Though she did say that maybe not Armenians, because they are better than the other two.

In your own story I can imagine that the Turk (did you mean an Azeri or a Turkmen) and the Chechen stood up for you because at least in that instant you shared the racism all darker people experience in Russia. Also, ingeneral on a neutral territory cultural dislikes, grudges and even hatreds subside. But allow me to make a point. It is absolutely possible that you may meet a very nice and kind Georgian or a Turk or even an Azeri (we had neighbors who were Azeris and they were very nice people as shocking as that may sound), but that only means that at that moment the decidely anti-Armenian views of their nation and peoples did not play a role. Like I said it was perhaps due to the neutrality of the place. Their individual treatment of you in no way has bearing on how they would vote or sanction barbaric or aggresive actions of their peoples against Armenia and Armenians in general. If you ask Skhara, I'm sure he'll tell you stories of his family recieving much more unfriendly treatment from Azeris. Why, because in their house, where it matters most, they saw Armenians not as individuals, the way they saw you in Russia, but as Armenians, who should be robbed, kicked out and neutralized. I've always thought that if you could suck out the "Turkishness" or the "Azeriness" out of the Turks and Azeris, you may find wonderful people, people who strive to be great parents, great sons and daughters, great brothers and sisters, same things we Armenians and indeed all people on this earth strive for. That humanistic thing we all people of earth share. But what xxxxs it up is the ugly cultural, societal, national values, teachings, ambitions, etc. A turk is not born anti-Armenian, but he or she will in most likelyhood grow up anti-Armenian (again not necessarily in the sence of hating you individually, but in the sence of being a tiny cell in the collective anti-Armenian organism of his nation or culture), unfortunately, because of what they will read and hear and watch as they grow up. That's decades and centuries worth of generational and national(ist) agendas and brainwashing, and nurture. Though that alludes to the argument of nature vs nurture, which is still somewhat open. I think that somewhere along the line, for Turks the centuries old nurture of warfare and causing oppression probably translates some of that nurture to the nature.

As far as me, I should add that without fail, every time I got to spend more than 15 minutes with any Russian, the respect they had for Armenia was pulpuble. I'd heard on many occasions Russians excitedly saying that Armenians were some of the oldest people in the world and the oldest civilization among the old republics. Also, the old radical grandma I met was a huge exception, for besides her I only met friendly and very motherly babushkas.

[TomServo]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Karo, how are the Circassians, Dagestanis and Ossetians treated? Do you know?

[karoaper]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Karo, how are the Circassians, Dagestanis and Ossetians treated? Do you know?

Sorry bro, I have no idea. Certainly after Beslan, there's going to be very friendly and emotional attitutude towards Ossetians. But towards the other two I have no idea.

[Fedayeen]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Fedayeen,

May I ask where in Russia you grew up? In my experience, Russians in Moscow and those outside in the more rural areas have quite different attitudes.

Siberia, and traveled all over Russia, but generally speaking most Russians are idiots...same as "white people" are idiots here...i think idiocy has something to do with being white blue eyed, blonde haired crackhead, for the most part.

[karoaper]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

Siberia, and traveled all over Russia, but generally speaking most Russians are idiots...same as "white people" are idiots here...i think idiocy has something to do with being white blue eyed, blonde haired crackhead, for the most part.

lol that's funny I lived in Siberia for coupe of years where my dad had a job there. From what I remember and from what my mom has told me the people loved us.

[Fedayeen]

Re: Russian Georgian conflict

In my experience, Russian girls were very friendly.

But, seriously Fed, I understand your personal experiences have left an impression, but the issue of Azeris or Georgians and their overall attitude against Armenia and Armenians, not individually but as a unity of people goes deeper than the matter of personal treatment you may have recieved from them, whether good or bad.

You said Russians were racist to you. I can understand that especially as a kid, such things can stay hurtful for a while. I myself lived in Moscow for a year and I've seen some of that myself. The worst thing I remember was when I heard once in a line an old grandma say that she would like to put all people of Caucusus against the wall and machine gun them all. Though she did say that maybe not Armenians, because they are better than the other two.

In your own story I can imagine that the Turk (did you mean an Azeri or a Turkmen) and the Chechen stood up for you because at least in that instant you shared the racism all darker people experience in Russia. Also, ingeneral on a neutral territory cultural dislikes, grudges and even hatreds subside. But allow me to make a point. It is absolutely possible that you may meet a very nice and kind Georgian or a Turk or even an Azeri (we had neighbors who were Azeris and they were very nice people as shocking as that may sound), but that only means that at that moment the decidely anti-Armenian views of their nation and peoples did not play a role. Like I said it was perhaps due to the neutrality of the place. Their individual treatment of you in no way has bearing on how they would vote or sanction barbaric or aggresive actions of their peoples against Armenia and Armenians in general. If you ask Skhara, I'm sure he'll tell you stories of his family recieving much more unfriendly treatment from Azeris. Why, because in their house, where it matters most, they saw Armenians not as individuals, the way they saw you in Russia, but as Armenians, who should be robbed, kicked out and neutralized. I've always thought that if you could suck out the "Turkishness" or the "Azeriness" out of the Turks and Azeris, you may find wonderful people, people who strive to be great parents, great sons and daughters, great brothers and sisters, same things we Armenians and indeed all people on this earth strive for. That humanistic thing we all people of earth share. But what xxxxs it up is the ugly cultural, societal, national values, teachings, ambitions, etc. A turk is not born anti-Armenian, but he or she will in most likelyhood grow up anti-Armenian (again not necessarily in the sence of hating you individually, but in the sence of being a tiny cell in the collective anti-Armenian organism of his nation or culture), unfortunately, because of what they will read and hear and watch as they grow up. That's decades and centuries worth of generational and national(ist) agendas and brainwashing, and nurture. Though that alludes to the argument of nature vs nurture, which is still somewhat open. I think that somewhere along the line, for Turks the centuries old nurture of warfare and causing oppression probably translates some of that nurture to the nature.

As far as me, I should add that without fail, every time I got to spend more than 15 minutes with any Russian, the respect they had for Armenia was pulpuble. I'd heard on many occasions Russians excitedly saying that Armenians were some of the oldest people in the world and the oldest civilization among the old republics. Also, the old radical grandma I met was a huge exception, for besides her I only met friendly and very motherly babushkas.

Bravo...you definatly do understand...thank you.

You see the whole school was all Russians...from the teachers to 98% of students just hated us...students i could understand but teachers...damn
It was me, 2 turks with last name Aliev, a chechen, then there was someone else from ingushetia...always had to watch out for eachother. Only two teachers liked me, one was from Greece and other was Chechen. But as you said all this is personal level...and i understand that...and everyone should understand too that there is bad and good people in every race/group of people...and personal level is different then speaking in general