I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

[Sip]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Originally Posted by ara87
Giving rights to others does not take rights away from yourself. For example giving minorities such as Black Americans, Native Americans, Women(of all races), etc the right to vote and own land, etc, did not take white men's right to own land or vote.

No, the right thing to do ...

What do you mean "No, the right thing to do ..."? When you start by saying "No" that means you are disagreeing with what ara87 said. What he said is very true. Do you disagree?

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Making self government based on race would be highly illogical, because this would firstly lead to territorial dispute, look at what happened in Yugoslavia, you'd have that same situation that Bosnians, Serbs and Croats had, with each aguing where the other should live. Native Americans and African Americans do not live in a homogenous area, heneforth if you were to divide them, the wouldn't have an area that can exist seperately as a republic.

Also, of minorities in such self governing areas, you'd have minorities feel they are not being represented, meaning conflicts as well. As America is a multiethnic state, it makes sense giving equal rights to all who live in it

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Presentation or content?

For me, a good presenter/salesman.
Probably he could sell snow to the eskimos.

Both.

[londontsi]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Both.

I grew up in the war years during Cyprus problems.

I (we) was homeless, grew up in poverty.
I was unable to get decent schooling.
I started work at 16 helping with the family livelihood.

However growing in hardship gave me the advantage of maturing early in life.
I am a self made man, much more successful than many of my contemporaries who had it all.

If I advocated that today’s youngsters should grow up in that manner to succeed in life I would be made a laughing stock.
Because its just not “normal”.
I wouldn’t wish it either to my kids or anybody else's.

To say because somebody grew to become successful/happy does not mean the way the person grows up is normal even though he is a normal person.

Even at my age when I see in people “how I should have grown up” I get a sense of having missed out.
You cannot feel it unless you have been through it.

He will probably feel it as he grows up.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

I grew up in the war years during Cyprus problems.

I (we) was homeless, grew up in poverty.
I was unable to get decent schooling.
I started work at 16 helping with the family livelihood.

However growing in hardship gave me the advantage of maturing early in life.
I am a self made man, much more successful than many of my contemporaries who had it all.

If I advocated that today’s youngsters should grow up in that manner to succeed in life I would be made a laughing stock.
Because its just not “normal”.
I wouldn’t wish it either to my kids or anybody else's.

To say because somebody grew to become successful/happy does not mean the way the person grows up is normal even though he is a normal person.

Even at my age when I see in people “how I should have grown up” I get a sense of having missed out.
You cannot feel it unless you have been through it.

He will probably feel it as he grows up.

I applaud you for persevering in the face of adversity and being successful.

That said, what's growing up "normal" exactly? Is growing up "normal" necessarily good?

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make. He's not saying any way is better than the other in the video. He's simply identifying and challenging one of the premises on which those against marriage equality use to justify that position. They claim that children are worse off for being raised in gay parent households. He's arguing that this is not the case. He's doing that by sharing his own story which is just an anecdote, yes. But there is research data to support this too; that the children of same-sex parents are not different or any worse adjusted than those of opposite-sex parents.

Patterson, C. J. (2000). Sexual orientation and family life: A decade review. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 62, 1052 - 1069.

Wainright, J. L., Russell, S. T., & Patterson, C. J. (2004). Psychosocial adjustment and school outcomes of adolescents with same-sex parents. Child Development, 75, 1886 - 1898.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Fantastic speech.

WOW!!!!!!!!





Is that Alan Greenspan in the background?

Seriously, what's the ex chairman of the Federal Reserve doing here? lol

[londontsi]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

That said, what's growing up "normal" exactly?

Firstly when you feel you grew up normally,
and secondly when others think you grow up normally.

Hint, the fact that he feels the need to debate that he has grown up normal to others means ......he is concerned/unsure.

I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make.

To say because somebody grew to become successful/happy does not mean the way the person grows up is normal
... even though he is a normal person.

[jgk3]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Firstly when you feel you grew up normally,
and secondly when others think you grow up normally.

To me, it seems to boil down to a belief system about what is ideal in society and how our upbringing satisfactorily normed with that ideal. In your case, ideal probably meant having a house, having enough food and security to feel like you could play and be happy without worrying about survival.

To others, normal was about having a sexual orientation that let to norming with all the acceptable, non-stigmatized choices in courtship and sex. But for those with same-sex attractions growing up in homophobic environments, it was not the outside world that is allowed to be blamed if one strongly believes in "normal behavior", but oneself. Thus, they are raised in a punishing environment. They start to miss out on feelings of security, about being able to open up and feel the satisfaction of not having to worry about how others see them (though not all people with same-sex attractions care equally about how they are perceived by others). So some of the things you consider to be part of a normal upbringing, are also missed out on by people who differ only because of their sexual orientation from the norm, rather than on their material security.

That said, there is a maturity process for all of us, when we feel we didn't get exactly what we would've hoped for during our upbringing in terms of support/guidance, which is why we search to amend that which we felt deprived of, by seeking it out at a later age. To do this, we have to declare independence from old, unsatisfactory norms we grew up in, and redefine ourselves and choose what kind of environment is best for us.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Presentation or content?

For me, a good presenter/salesman.
Probably he could sell snow to the eskimos.

I found it bad in both presentation and content.

Are Americans all as easily manipulated as robots? Press button X to make then do X, press button Y to make them do Y. To get them to support you press button "I'm a 6th-generation local, not some outsider with strange, heathen ideas who should be tarred and feathered and driven out of town on a mule", press button "We go to church together - so I am a real American", press button "awww, my mom has MS and that is a good, honest, honourable disease that any of you good, honest, honourable people could get - and is not something got from nasty unAmerican lifestyle issues" ... and so on.

I find all these discussions about same sex marriage a big joke - those arguing at each other are the very ones who have no stake at all in marriage as it currently exists. They are all either Catholic priests who are not allowed to marry, or homosexuals who are not allowed to marry their partners, or politicians who, if married, all treat their marriage vows with contempt.
The people who should be consulted are the people who have an actual stake in the institution of marriage because they have gone ahead and actually got married and stayed married. But they are entirely ignored! The ONLY people who shoud be consulted are long-term married couples. They should be asked if they feel that their insititution of marriage that they have entered into will be demeaned and devalued by allowing it to be open to same-sex couples, or whether they feel their institution of marriage will be enhanced and strengthened by such a change. And on that basis alone should the outcome be decided.

[Eddo211]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Hey everyone.

My whole life it was very hard for me to keep it a secret, but I realised that keeping your real personality and desires as a secret isn't living life to the fullest.

BEING GAY is such a taboo for Armenians:
- because most of them aren't developed that much, to know that being gay is NOT a choice. They think that it's satanic, and that you will burn in hell forever if you remain living gay.
- Armenia has endured so much troubles, and so many people have been killed, that fear has become a part in Armenian DNA. A fear for children who will never be there, because there are gays who don't seek woman but men.

As far as I am concerned more gays means more women for us men.....this can only be good.