I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

That sounds like a claim that requires evidence...

Sounds like common ancient knowledge which is why Armenians know better than Freud.

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Sounds like common ancient knowledge which is why Armenians know better than Freud.

It's common ancient knowledge that upbringing and sexual trauma lead to homosexuality? Is that an excuse for why you have no evidence to offer?

Only the ignorant would bring up Freud whilst criticizing science.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

It's common ancient knowledge that upbringing and sexual trauma lead to homosexuality? Is that an excuse for why you have no evidence to offer?

Only the ignorant would bring up Freud whilst criticizing science.

Freud was a douche bag and a majority of psychologists and psychoanalysts would agree that his views and results weren't true to life.

Later psychoanalysts did not follow this view, however. Sandor Rado (1940, 1949) rejected Freud's assumption of inherent bisexuality, arguing instead that heterosexuality is natural and that homosexuality is a "reparative" attempt to achieve sexual pleasure when normal heterosexual outlet proves too threatening. Other analysts later argued that homosexuality resulted from pathological family relationships during the oedipal period (around 4-5 years of age) and claimed that they observed these patterns in their homosexual patients (Bieber et al., 1962). Charles Socarides (1968) speculated that the etiology of homosexuality was pre-oedipal and, therefore, even more pathological than had been supposed by earlier analysts (for a detailed history, see Lewes, 1988; for briefer summaries, see Bayer, 1987; Silverstein, 1991).

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Freud was a douche bag and a majority of psychologists and psychoanalysts would agree that his views and results weren't true to life.

Later psychoanalysts did not follow this view, however. Sandor Rado (1940, 1949) rejected Freud's assumption of inherent bisexuality, arguing instead that heterosexuality is natural and that homosexuality is a "reparative" attempt to achieve sexual pleasure when normal heterosexual outlet proves too threatening. Other analysts later argued that homosexuality resulted from pathological family relationships during the oedipal period (around 4-5 years of age) and claimed that they observed these patterns in their homosexual patients (Bieber et al., 1962). Charles Socarides (1968) speculated that the etiology of homosexuality was pre-oedipal and, therefore, even more pathological than had been supposed by earlier analysts (for a detailed history, see Lewes, 1988; for briefer summaries, see Bayer, 1987; Silverstein, 1991).

You missed the point. Freud was not a scientist. His "theories" (used in the colloquial sense and not scientific) were unfalsifiable, untestable, circular, and therefore not scientific. Which is why only the ignorant would bring up Freud in an argument against science because nothing Freud did or posited had a scientific bent. So you see... Bringing up Freud is a strawman fallacy.

I think for all the attention he brought to the field, it was ultimately the wrong kind and he has probably been as harmful as he was helpful (with his one worthy contribution of the unconscious).

Also, saying that people disagreed with Freud is hardly providing evidence. Show me something recent (60s, are you kidding?) and with evidence (not opinion).

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

You missed the point. Freud was not a scientist. His "theories" (used in the colloquial sense and not scientific) were unfalsifiable, untestable, circular, and therefore not scientific. Which is why only the ignorant would bring up Freud in an argument against science because nothing Freud did or posited had a scientific bent. So you see... Bringing up Freud is a strawman fallacy.

I think for all the attention he brought to the field, it was ultimately the wrong kind and he has probably been as harmful as he was helpful (with his one worthy contribution of the unconscious).

Also, saying that people disagreed with Freud is hardly providing evidence. Show me something recent (60s, are you kidding?) and with evidence (not opinion).

Hey, let's go back to when you were 5 years old and see if being molested would have affected you in any way. You want evidence?

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Hey, let's go back to when you were 5 years old and see if being molested would have affected you in any way. You want evidence?

Har har har har! OR we could simply look for a correlation first (as one of the 3 things required for causation is covariation) and see if there's a higher reported incidence of childhood trauma or abuse among the homosexual compared to the heterosexual for starters.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Har har har har! OR we could simply look for a correlation first (as one of the 3 things required for causation is covariation) and see if there's a higher reported incidence of childhood trauma or abuse among the homosexual compared to the heterosexual for starters.

Unless you put society in a glass cage and watch from above, you aren't going to be able to make a positive correlation .

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Unless you put society in a glass cage and watch from above, you aren't going to be able to make a positive correlation .

Uhh... Spoken like a layman? There's no glass cage required for correlation. It's one of the easiest things to do.

For example: There's a positive correlation between smoking cigarettes and cancer. There's a positive correlation between hours spent studying and grades. There's a positive correlation between shoe size and reading comprehension.

[KanadaHye]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Uhh... Spoken like a layman? There's no glass cage required for correlation. It's one of the easiest things to do.

Really? And you really believe people when they tell you their version of their life story?

[Siggie]

Re: I am Armenian and GAY. Not feminine, just masculine.

Really? And you really believe people when they tell you their version of their life story?

Keep laughing instead of trying to learn something and actually improving your piss-poor knowledge of science.

Self-report is a well-recognized limitation and generally avoided where possible. Just because depending on the research question, sometimes it can't be avoided doesn't automatically mean the research isn't worth doing and wouldn't be informative nonetheless.

Do you think self-reports of childhood abuse will lead to lower or higher estimates?