Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Thanks Siggie. I asked because the criticism of vaccines I have come across were not made by laymen, but by doctors who had studied the topic for years. I should add, much of the criticism was not that they cause autism, but that the vaccines themselves are useless because one, it does not prevent outbreaks, and two, many of these diseases such as measles and whooping cough were already in decline by over 90% by the time the vaccines for them were introduced. There have also been many cases, as you probably know, of vaccines being overloaded with mercury many times over the safety limit or other substances in vaccines which caused other illnesses, which have been exposed by doctors and patients whose children recieved permanent damage from them. Some claim these are honest mistakes, others suspect a more systematic nature. Also, some of the autism claims that I have read were made by actual doctors. But I will check out whatever medical information I can get my hands on.

But either way I cannot grasp the logic behind the flu shot. The flu is something your body needs to go through every now and then so that your immune system gets practice and upgrades its defenses. I can understand the argument to give your kids shots for serious diseases (I've recieved these vaccines as well), but for the flu, its a bit much. The flu is more like a symptom that you are not taking care of your health.

[Siggie]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

I would check those doctors credentials and the basis on which they raise criticism. If they are just making the claim based on anecdotal evidence, then that's not worth anything.
From what I have read, the levels of mercury are safe and not associated with any harm. Some of the articles I cited looked for a connection between mercury and several illnesses and didn't find a link. It should be pretty easy to find any one of them from the given references.

Infants can die of the flu, so there is an influenze shot that they do recommend for babies.
As far as adults, there are some populations with compromised immune systems (Elderly, AIDS, other immune issues, etc) who are at risk of being hospitalized for dying from the flu. It's not just a cold exactly. Thousands die of the flu each year.
So, for these people it is better to give them a vaccine consisting of a weakened strain of the disease to allow them better defense again a potentially very serious illness.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Infants wouldn't have weak immune systems if they were raised naturally by mother's milk instead of the artificial methods of feeding that are chosen to be used in by many mothers. Mother's milk contains what controls viral and bacterial infections in the baby's initial months. Immunizing babies for the flu is absurdly ridiculous. I'm with ArmSurvival on that one.

Thousands don't die of the flu, they die from having a weak immune system. The flu usually leads to an onset of pneumonia and/or other ailments.

Overuse of vaccines and antibiotics have allowed viruses to mutate. Think of it like a computer virus where one person writes code to make the virus and the other person writes code kill the virus. It's an endless cycle where the virus just needs to change a little so that the vaccine is no longer effective. The virus's sole purpose is to survive like any other organism. If the influenza shot was effective against building lasting immunity against the virus, you would only need to get the shot once. Oddly enough, a different strain of the flu is constantly brewing from the depths of the earth and miraculously there is a new flu shot before every flu season to fight the new strain before it starts spreading among the population. HOW DO THEY DO IT. The best self defense against flu's is your bodies natural immune system. Take care of it and it will take care of you.

And if you get flu shots because the experts claim thousands die of the flu, just remember tens of thousands die in car crashes each year.

But as far as the other time proven vaccine's go... GET YOUR CHILDREN VACCINATED.

[Siggie]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Once again Dre, you speak without knowing what you are talking about.

Haemophilus influenzae type b and Influenza are among the shots that are recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics and given to most infants. In the case of Influenza vaccine it is given after 6 months old.

http://www.aap.org/sections/infectdis/IZSchedule_Childhood.pdf

What do car accidents have to do with it? Hundreds of people are struck and killed by lightening so you don't have to wear a seatbelt in the car. That's about the extent of your logic.

What you describe is how viruses survive. Yeah, they mutate, but they do so even if we don't create vaccines.
They recommend the vaccine for people who are greatest risk if they get it as a way to boost their immunity. Are you telling me you're just going to tell your frail old grandma, good luck Medsmam, hope it doesn't kill you this season and if it does oh well it's your immune system's fault?

[Siggie]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Please tell me what it is that I overlooked other than your unrelated reference to overuse of antibiotics (which I actually agree with btw).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Once again Dre, you speak without knowing what you are talking about.

Haemophilus influenzae type b and Influenza are among the shots that are recommended by the American Pediatric Association and given to most infants. In the case of Influenza vaccine it is given after 6 months old.

What do car accidents have to do with it? Hundreds of people are struck and killed by lightening so you don't have to wear a seatbelt in the car. That's about the extent of your logic.

What you describe is how viruses survive. Yeah, they mutate, but they do so even if we don't create vaccines.
They recommend the vaccine for people who are greatest risk if they get it as a way to boost their immunity. Are you telling me you're just going to tell your frail old grandma, good luck Medsmam, hope it doesn't kill you this season and if it does oh well it's your immune system's fault?

My frail old Grandma told the doctor to give the shot to someone who needs it. She didn't have the media dictating to her what to do.

[Siggie]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

My frail old Grandma told the doctor to give the shot to someone who needs it. She didn't have the media dictating to her what to do.

The media or doctors/scientists? Instead you and your Grandma rely on what? Common sense? Because that can't possibly lead you astray.

If you are at risk for respiratory complications if you do get the flu and the flu vaccine is safe and reduces your chances of getting it by 80%, why in the world would you not get it?

Healthy adults who get the vaccine do it because they just don't want to get the flu. Who can blame them for not wanting to be miserable for nearly a week and miss work because of it?

Do you actually subscribe to these beliefs or do you just look for opportunities to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing?

And by the way... I think you know I'm not in medical school, so how is it that I'm spewing out what I've been taught (basically regurgitating) from classes I've never taken and you're somehow doing something different (presumably thinking)?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

The media or doctors/scientists? Instead you and your Grandma rely on what? Common sense? Because that can't possibly lead you astray.

If you are at risk for respiratory complications if you do get the flu and the flu vaccine is safe and reduces your chances of getting it by 80%, why in the world would you not get it?

Healthy adults who get the vaccine do it because they just don't want to get the flu. Who can blame them for not wanting to be miserable for nearly a week and miss work because of it?

Do you actually subscribe to these beliefs or do you just look for opportunities to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing?

And by the way... I think you know I'm not in medical school, so how is it that I'm spewing out what I've been taught (basically regurgitating) from classes I've never taken and you're somehow doing something different (presumably thinking)?

Damnit, you're catching on... lol. Seriously though Siggie, I don't get the flu shot and most people I know don't get it either. I just rely on what I was born with. Seems to work for me.

[Siggie]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

Damnit, you're catching on... lol. Seriously though Siggie, I don't get the flu shot and most people I know don't get it either. I just rely on what I was born with. Seems to work for me.

You have a healthy immune system Dre... There's a difference.

[Sip]

Re: Rising number of unvaccinated children in California

But either way I cannot grasp the logic behind the flu shot. The flu is something your body needs to go through every now and then so that your immune system gets practice and upgrades its defenses. I can understand the argument to give your kids shots for serious diseases (I've recieved these vaccines as well), but for the flu, its a bit much. The flu is more like a symptom that you are not taking care of your health.

The problem is you and many others don't really understand how vaccines work. I am by no means an immunologist or even in the medical fields (I do know a bit about computer viruses though ). But the way vaccines work is to fool your body into producing the immunities you need to fight the actual virus without getting you sick. The reason you then don't get sick after a vaccine is that in fact you do have the immunity!

So this whole argument that I need to get sick to build immunity isn't really a wise one with respect to trying to argue against vaccines. On the other hand, I certainly don't believe we should become paranoid germo-phobes and try to prevent ANY and ALL sort of sicknesses at any cost. I personally don't bother with the flu shot either since I haven't really gotten a serious flu for a long time anyway. But at the same time, I can definitely see a HUGE difference in quality of life with modern medicine and vaccinations compared to what humanity had to endure before.