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Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

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  • Vaccinations (Countering the misinformation of Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    Shermer wrote a public letter to Bill Maher about his crazy anti-vaxx beliefs.

    Originally posted by Michael Shermer
    An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations
    by Michael Shermer
    An Open Letter to Bill Maher on Vaccinations

    From a Fellow Skeptic

    By Michael Shermer
    Editor of Skeptic magazine and “Skeptic” columnist for Scientific American

    Dear Bill,

    Years ago you invited me to appear as a fellow skeptic several times on your ABC show Politically Incorrect, and I have ever since shared your skepticism on so many matters important to both of us: creationism and intelligent design, religious supernaturalism and New Age paranormal piffle, 9/11 “truthers”, Obama “birthers”, and all manner of conspiratorial codswallop. On these matters, and many others, you rightly deserved the Richard Dawkins Award from Atheist Alliance International.

    However, I believe that when it comes to alternative medicine in general and vaccinations in particular you have fallen prey to the same cognitive biases and conspiratorial thinking that you have so astutely identified in others. In fact, the very principle of how vaccinations work is additional proof (as if we needed more) against the creationists that evolution happened and that natural selection is real: vaccinations work by tricking the body’s immune system into thinking that it has already had the disease for which the vaccination was given. Our immune system “adapts” to the invading pathogens and “evolves” to fight them, such that when it encounters a biologically similar pathogen (which itself may have evolved) it has in its armory the weapons needed to fight it. This is why many of us born in the 1950s and before may already have some immunity against the H1N1 flu because of its genetic similarity to earlier influenza viruses, and why many of those born after really should get vaccinated.

    Vaccinations are not 100% effective, nor are they risk free. But the benefits far outweigh the risks, and when communities in the U.S. and the U.K. in recent years have foregone vaccinations in large numbers, herd immunity is lost and communicable diseases have come roaring back. This is yet another example of evolution at work, but in this case it is working against us. (See www.sciencebasedmedicine.org for numerous articles answering every one of the objections to vaccinations.)

    Vaccination is one of science’s greatest discoveries. It is with considerable irony, then, that as a full-throated opponent of the nonsense that calls itself Intelligent Design, your anti-vaccination stance makes you something of an anti-evolutionist. Since you have been so vocal in your defense of the theory of evolution, I implore you to be consistent in your support of the theory across all domains and to please reconsider your position on vaccinations. It was not unreasonable to be a vaccination skeptic in the 1880s, which the co-discovered of natural selection—Alfred Russel Wallace—was, but we’ve learned a lot over the past century. Evolution explains why vaccinations work. Please stop denying evolution in this special case.

    As well, Bill, your comments about not wanting to “trust the government” to inject us with a potentially deadly virus, along with many comments you have made about “big pharma” being in cahoots with the AMA and the CDC to keep us sick in the name of corporate profits is, in every way that matters, indistinguishable from 9/11 conspiracy mongering. Your brilliant line about how we know that the Bush administration did not orchestrate 9/11 (“because it worked”), applies here: the idea that dozens or hundreds pharmaceutical executives, AMA directors, CDC doctors, and corporate CEOs could pull off a conspiracy to keep us all sick in the name of money and power makes about as much sense as believing that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their bureaucratic apparatchiks planted explosive devices in the World Trade Center and flew remote controlled planes into the buildings.

    Finally, Bill, please consider the odd juxtaposition of your enthusiastic support for health care reform and government intervention into this aspect of our medical lives, with your skepticism that these same people—when it comes to vaccinations and disease prevention—suddenly lose their sense of morality along with their medical training. You excoriate the political right for not trusting the government with our health, and then in the next breath you inadvertently join their chorus when you denounce vaccinations, thereby adding fodder for their ideological cannons. Please remember that it’s the same people administrating both health care and vaccination programs.

    One of the most remarkable features of science is that it often leads its practitioners to change their minds and to say “I was wrong.” Perhaps we don’t do it enough, as our own blinders and egos can get in the way, but it does happen, and it certainly happens a lot more in science than it does in religion or politics. I’ve done it. I used to be a global warming skeptic, but I reconsidered the evidence and announced in Scientific American that I was wrong. Please reconsider both the evidence for vaccinations, as well as the inconsistencies in your position, and think about doing one of the bravest and most honorable things any critical thinker can do, and that is to publicly state, “I changed my mind. I was wrong.”

    With respect,

    Michael Shermer
    [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
    -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

  • #2
    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

    The U.K. and the U.S. are the worst rated in the industrial world in terms of sexual education, rate of teen pregnancies and STD's. They are an easy target for pharmaceuticals. They are also both the pioneers of the "war on terror" and partners in meddling in the middle east and the oil business. Neither Shermer or Bill Maher are medical practioners, their opinion matters to me as much as TV Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
    "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

      No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well when we (the collective we, not just you and I) have discussed this topic in the past. Actually I cited a lot of research demonstrating no relationship between vaccinations (MMR particularly) and autism. Here's that last thread

      Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

      Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

      Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine

      I know you're going to reply, but I am planning on using this thread for all future anti-vaxxer type information so a warning/request is in order: Please keep your comments here limited to that topic because I will remove them otherwise.
      [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
      -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

        Originally posted by Siggie View Post
        No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well.

        Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

        Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

        Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine
        The N1H1 aka Swine Flu "scare" is attracting a whole new group of Anti-Vaccine supporters, rightfully so. Aside from those that have autistic children (which is awful for those people that do) I think most people get their children vaccinated with the traditional recommended vaccinations. Autism does seem to be more prevalent in the U.S. for some reason... could be other factors relating to lifestyle since the supposed same vaccinations are used in all developed countries. From what I gather, mercury is added to vaccines as a preservative and perhaps that wasn't the practice until recent years.


        Concern in Germany as safety of swine flu vaccines questioned

        GERMANY’S SWINE flu vaccination programme has been hit by public health concerns over the vaccines being used – one of which has been ordered by the Irish Government.

        Germany’s 16 federal states have spent a reported €600 million buying 50 million doses of the Pandemrix vaccine, produced by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

        This new vaccine, one of two to be offered by Irish doctors, is the subject of controversy in Germany because it contains a “booster” substance known as an “adjuvant”. This allows less virus material to be used per dose and, according to GSK, boosts the immune system’s response to the jab.

        Pandemrix was approved for use by the European Medicines Agency last month and has the approval of Germany’s Paul Ehrlich Institute, which advises the government on vaccination matters. However, another government body, the Federal Vaccination Agency, has contradicted the institute and has advised against the use of vaccines containing adjuvants.

        Concerns about Pandemrix’s safety and efficacy have been raised by several German medical organisations, with warnings against using it to vaccinate high-risk groups such as pregnant women and children.

        Dr Wolfram Hartmann, president of the German association of paediatricians, accused the federal government of “false testimony” for recommending Pandemrix for use on young children – six weeks after it issued advice to the contrary.

        “The vaccine has not yet been tested on children under three, so the risk is simply too big to use on them without misgivings,” he said.

        The vaccine confusion grew over the weekend when it emerged that the German government and armed forces are to receive a different jab to the public. Celvapan, produced by drug company Baxter, is a traditional vaccine containing no booster substances.

        The interior ministry in Berlin denied yesterday it was a case of two-tier medical care. A spokesperson said the federal government had a contract to buy Baxter flu vaccination products for state employees.

        The Health Service Executive (HSE), now delivering the GSK vaccine to GPs and awaiting supplies of the Baxter one, said the safety data base for the GSK adjuvant includes more than 10,000 individuals.

        “As with any vaccines, risks have to be balanced with the benefits and the authorities in Ireland are satisfied that the benefits from both vaccines outweigh any possible risks of side effects.” The HSE said Ireland continues to see an increase in swine flu cases every week as well as fatalities associated with this virus. The fifth fatality was confirmed last night. The deceased, an adult male in the east, had an underlying medical condition.

        “Vaccination is the most important tool we have to protect the Irish population,” the HSE said.

        Stirring things up even further in Germany yesterday, outgoing interior minister Wolfgang Schäuble said: “I’m not even sure if I will be getting vaccinated at all.”

        In an attempt to calm the situation, Chancellor Angela Merkel’s spokesman said the German leader, if so advised by her doctor, would be vaccinated with Pandemrix.

        http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...257059631.html
        Last edited by KanadaHye; 10-21-2009, 08:47 AM.
        "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

          Originally posted by Siggie View Post
          No one sways you... I have posted the opinions of doctors as well when we (the collective we, not just you and I) have discussed this topic in the past. Actually I cited a lot of research demonstrating no relationship between vaccinations (MMR particularly) and autism. Here's that last thread

          Just to name a couple who have been especially vocal...

          Dr. Joe Albietz - Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at the University of Colorodo School of Medicine

          Dr. Steven Novella - Assistant Professor and Director of General Neurology at Yale University School of Medicine

          I know you're going to reply, but I am planning on using this thread for all future anti-vaxxer type information so a warning/request is in order: Please keep your comments here limited to that topic because I will remove them otherwise.
          Why are so against opposing viewpoints... everyone has a right to make decisions on their own and nobody should be dictated what to do. These aren't janitors that are speaking out, they are doctors that are impartial to the businesses that promote vaccines.
          "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

            Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
            Why are so against opposing viewpoints... everyone has a right to make decisions on their own and nobody should be dictated what to do. These aren't janitors that are speaking out, they are doctors that are impartial to the businesses that promote vaccines.
            No, the anti-vaxxers are not doctors. The story you cited about is about one very specific vaccine in Germany. Further, if adults don't want to get a flu vaccine, it's one thing, but deciding not to immunize their children is quite another. They are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people's children because it affects herd immunity.
            [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
            -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

              Originally posted by Siggie View Post
              No, the anti-vaxxers are not doctors. The story you cited about is about one very specific vaccine in Germany. Further, if adults don't want to get a flu vaccine, it's one thing, but deciding not to immunize their children is quite another. They are putting not only their own children at risk, but also other people's children because it affects herd immunity.
              The vaccine is produced by GlaxoSmithKline, they are not just in Germany. If an adult doesn't want to immunize their child with an untested, rushed and baseless vaccine, it is THEIR child... not yours and not the governments.
              "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                I wasn't talking about N1H1 ( but I will do some research about that), although from my understanding that was built from the existing influenza vaccine essentially using that as a base and just changing the strains included and nothing else.
                The childhood vaccines though, do affect other people's children; as I said before it affects herd immunity and can result in harm to other children.

                Influenza vaccines by and large have been very safe and effective...



                Nichol, Lind, Margolis, et al. (1995). The effectiveness of vaccination against Influenza in healthy working adults. The New England Journal of Medicine, 333, 889-893.
                - reduced 30ish%

                Vu, Farish, Jenkins, Kelly, (2002). A meta-analysis of effectiveness of influenza vaccine in persons aged 65 year and older living in the community. Vaccine, 20 (12-14), 1831-1836.
                - effective in reducing influenza-like illness by 35%, hospitalization for pneumonia and influenza by 33%, mortality following hospitalization for pneumonia and influenza by 47% ; and mortality from all causes by 50% (CI 45–56%).

                Nordin, Mullooly, Poblete, Strikas, Petrucci, et al. (2001). Influenza vaccine effectiveness in preventing hospitalizations in persons 65 years or older in Minnesota, New York, and Oregon: Data from 3 health plans. Journal of Infectious Diseases, 184 (15), 665-570
                - The virus‐vaccine match was excellent for year 1 and fair for year 2. Both years, during peak and total periods, vaccination reduced all causes of death and hospitalization for pneumonia and influenza: hospitalizations were reduced by 19%–20% and 18%–24% for years 1 and 2, respectively, and deaths were reduced by 60%–61% and 35%–39% for the same periods.

                Kramanz, DeStefano, Gargiullo, Chen, Lieu, et al. (2001) Does influenza vaccination prevent asthma exacerbations in children? The Journal of Pediatrics,138 (3),306-310.
                - influenza vaccination protects against acute asthma exacerbations in children

                Hurwitz, Haber, Chang, Shope, Teo, et al. (2000).Effectiveness of influenza vaccination of day care children in reducing influenza-related morbidity among household contacts. The Journal of the American Medical Association, 284 (13), 1677-1682.
                - Influenza-unvaccinated household contacts of influenza-vaccinated day care children had 42% fewer febrile respiratory illnesses compared with unvaccinated household contacts of control children. Among school-aged household contacts (aged 5-17 years), there was an 80% reduction among contacts of vaccinated children vs contacts of unvaccinated children in febrile respiratory illnesses (P=.01), as well as reductions of more than 70% in school days missed (P=.02), reported earaches (P=.02), physician visits (P=.007), physician-prescribed antibiotics (P=.02), and adults who missed work to take care of ill children (P=.04). Conclusions These results indicate that vaccinating day care children against influenza helps reduce influenza-related morbidity among their household contacts, particularly among school-aged contacts. Future studies should be conducted in civilian populations to assess the full effect of vaccinating day care children against influenza.

                Manzoli, Schioppa, Boccia, Villari, Paolo. (2007). The Efficacy of Influenza vaccine for healthy children: A Meta-Analysis evaluating potential sources of variation in efficacy estimates including study quality. The Pediatric Infectious Disease Journal, 26 (2), 97-106.
                - Multi-country study... 61% efficacy
                [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                  Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
                  The vaccine is produced by GlaxoSmithKline, they are not just in Germany.
                  Made by GSK or not, the US FDA approved vaccine does not contain adjuvants. That took all of about 2 minutes of research to find that out. Perhaps you ought to do some research before contributing to the existing unjustified fear mongering already going on in the media.

                  Originally posted by Dr. Steven Novella
                  We are now facing a regular seasonal flu spiked with the H1N1 pandemic. Our best weapon against morbidity and mortality caused by the flu is information, and yet the public is being barraged with misinformation designed to encourage poor choices and thereby result in maximal morbidity and mortality.
                  ...
                  The bottom line is that the vaccine works enough to make it worthwhile, and it is extremely safe. At a time when health care costs are crushing our economy, it is also worth pointing out that it is cost effective.
                  ...
                  Compared to the seasonal flu H1N1 is about as deadly overall, but kills a higher proportion of those who are otherwise young and healthy, and also is more deadly for pregnant women. About 1% of people infected with H1N1 get a severe form of the flu likely requiring hospitalization and at high risk of death.
                  ...
                  Is the vaccine safe?

                  There is a range of concerns that have been raised about the vaccine. These range from those that are reasonable and should be raised about any new intervention at one end, to outrageous conspiracy mongering at the other. Of course, those who raise appropriate concerns hate to be painted with the same brush as the conspiracy theorists, and so I will make that distinction at the outset. And, as stated above, the conspiracy theories are beyond the scope of this entry.

                  I would file under appropriate concerns the fact that the previous H1N1 pandemic vaccine from 1976 resulted in an increased risk of Guillain Barre Syndrome (GBS) – about 1 per 100,000 people vaccinated. The seasonal flu vaccine in the last 32 years has resulted in excess cases of GBS of about 1 in 1 million. While we expect that the H1N1 vaccine will likely have the same risk of GBS as the seasonal flu vaccine, the US and UK have instituted monitoring systems (essentially encouraging doctors to report cases of GBS following vaccination) as an early warning if the H1N1 vaccine has a higher risk of GBS.

                  I discuss the issue of GBS in more detail here, but the bottom line is that the risk of GBS ranges from low to very low, and it will be monitored. Also, early experience with the H1N1 vaccine has not resulted in any cases of GBS, so at the very least the risk is not high.

                  Most of the concerns brought up about the H1N1 vaccine I consider to be unreasonable fear mongering. For example, anti-vaccinationists have tried to raise fears about adjuvants in the vaccine. They consistently fail to point out that the versions of the vaccine approved by the FDA for use in the US do not contain adjuvants.

                  Adjuvants are substances added to vaccine to increase the immune response. This allows for the use of less viral material in the vaccine. Vaccine adjuvants are all extensively tested and are generally safe. Any reactions are extremely rares, and certainly much less likely than morbidity from the disease the vaccine is targeting.

                  Harriet Hall has already addressed the fear mongering surrounding squalene and other adjuvants here, and David Gorski addresses similar concerns here.

                  Another concern that is brought up is that one can get sick from the vaccine itself. Bill Maher infamously stated recently on his show that the vaccine “injects disease” into the arm. The injectible version of the vaccine does not contain “disease” – it is a killed virus vaccine, and it is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine. The nasal spray vaccine does contain a live virus, but it is an attenuated virus – meaning that it is weakened so as not to cause illness but only to provoke an immune response. There is a small risk that attenuated viruses will spontaneously mutate and revert back to a more virulent form, but the risk is very small.
                  And, of course, the now classic vaccine scare mongering regarding thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative, is being trotted out. These claims are wrong on multiple levels. We have already dealt extensively with the false claim that thimerosal is unsafe. A thorough review and reference list can be found here. Thimerosal is safe in the doses used in vaccines.

                  Further, the single-shot version of the seasonal and H1N1 flu vaccines, and the nasal vaccine, all do not contain any thimerosal. Thimerosal is only used in the multi-shot version of the vaccine, to prevent contamination.

                  Conclusion

                  While there is uncertainty and reasonable concerns regarding the flu vaccine, and more research is welcome, current evidence is sufficient to recommend that the vaccine is safe and effective. The bottom line with any medical intervention is risk vs benefit. The benefit of the H1N1 vaccine far outweighs the minimal risk.

                  Further, the more people who get the vaccine the more effective it will be. At this rate, we are unlikely to achieve herd immunity, but everyone who gets vaccinated will not only provide themselves with a level of protection, but will also protect those around them.

                  It is still too early to tell how severe the H1N1 pandemic will be, but at least it will result in a bad flu season. It is also clear at this point that the pandemic will be significantly worsened by fear-mongering against the most effective defense we have against the flu – the vaccine.
                  It's worth checking out his blog entry because there are numerous links to sources and references.


                  *edit to add

                  I googled and Canadian order was for unadjuvanted vaccine as well.
                  [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                  -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Vaccinations (Anti-Vaxx Movement)

                    Originally posted by Siggie View Post
                    Made by GSK or not, the US FDA approved vaccine does not contain adjuvants. That took all of about 2 minutes of research to find that out. Perhaps you ought to do some research before contributing to the existing unjustified fear mongering already going on in the media.



                    It's worth checking out his blog entry because there are numerous links to sources and references.
                    The FDA gave the go ahead to allow adjuvants in the H1N1 vaccines, the initial batches won't have them but if there is greater demand, the companies will dig into the batches with adjuvants that are being tested on other populations. Adjuvants just make the vaccine more effective with less antigen. Some people will take the vaccine, some won't. Some may die from the flu, some may die from the vaccine. In the end it won't matter either way but billions of dollars will be exchanged in the meantime.
                    "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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