Recent Influx of Immigration

[violette829]

Hey guys...I was doing 2 papers for my best friends about immigration last night, and I was wondering, "Hmm...I wonder what the forumers think about this one" So, what do you guys think? Should we allow everyone to enter into this country (talking about the United States...sorry Baron)or should we have tougher laws about foreigners? Do you think that we have a certain obligation to protect the immigrants who are already here, as well as allow new ones to enter?

I know you're thinking "Wait, Violette's an immigrant as well"..Well my friends, I KNOW THAT! But, I am talking about the ones who are coming here every day..

This leads to overpopulation, more pollution, more competition for unskilled work, as well as many foreign diseases, bacteria...bla bla bla.....BUT should we protect the ones who escape to America, for fear of persecution from their own nation?

I thank you in advance for your response!

(please excuse the blabbering above, I am extremely tired, and coughing up a storm....just tell me what you think)

[patlajan]

Your topic is too broad and is already C material. ;)

[Sip]

To me, immigration is like applying for anything else ... have an application process where you can evaluate the candidates and the ones that will be of most use (can contribute in the most positive ways) get in.

Sounds "unfair" but life is that way. So yah, I am all for "tough" selection criteria ... why should we allow any lazy bum with no prospects to be of any use to anyone to enter this country?

[violette829]

Originally posted by patlajan Your topic is too broad and is already C material. ;)

DAMNIT...oh well, it's not my paper..LOL But seriously, I wrote a damn good essay about this. I just wanted to know what you thought about the subject PATLA JAN!!!!!!!!! Your opinions matter to me sweetheart!

[violette829]

Originally posted by Seapahn To me, immigration is like applying for anything else ... have an application process where you can evaluate the candidates and the ones that will be of most use (can contribute in the most positive ways) get in.

Sounds "unfair" but life is that way. So yah, I am all for "tough" selection criteria ... why should we allow any lazy bum with no prospects to be of any use to anyone to enter this country?

What do you define as lazy? I mean, given the proper education and opportunity, I think any NIMROD can make a good life here.

[Mikoyan]

Its an interesting topic,

maybe one you have to view from

a) moral view
b) view under current system
c) how these contradict and what is solution

a) Moral View

b) View under current system
"The French revolution of 1789 was the first to be fought under the banner of human rights. For the French revolutionaries the freedom to go where you wanted was as basic as the freedom to say what you thought. They were right. They were fighting against a regime that wouldn't let common people move from one part of France to another. The motive then, as now, was to control the movement of labour. In particular the King didn't want peasants running away from their overlords to work in the towns. So he controlled the movement of people so as to help the aristocracy keep commoners where they could screw them."

At the time of the great migration began, Britain was generally reckoned to be overcrowded. Its population at the battle of aterloo was about 10 million. Then as now, 'overcrowding' is measured by the ability of the productive forces to keep the population adequately fed, watered and housed. As Marx puts it, "every method of production that arises in the course of history has its own peculiar, historically valid, law of population."

Of course there were frictions between new arrivals and established workers. The recent film, 'The gangs of New York', depicts the battles between 'native Americans' and Irish immigrants. After the US Civil War it became fashionable to sneer at Swedish migrants instead. Twenty years later Swedish Americans were regarded as fellow North Europeans to be appealed to in the battle against South Europeans, such as Italians, and xxxs - who were all dirty, lazy and lived in warrens like rabbits. In passing, one of the most depressing aspects of researching this background is to find out how utterly unoriginal all this racist rubbish is. The same abuse is passed down from generation to generation, and just hurled at the latest lot of incomers, whoever they happen to be.


have a look at the following sites, just to give an opposing slant, will increase your grades anyway

http://www.marxist.com/Europe/asylum_seek_truth.html
http://www.marxist.com/Europe/immigration_control.html
http://www.marxist.com/Africa/tragedy_immigrant0603.html
http://www.marxist.com/Europe/asylum_seek_gb.html

what you think?

[Sip]

Originally posted by violette829 What do you define as lazy? I mean, given the proper education and opportunity, I think any NIMROD can make a good life here.

I disagree. When I look around and see how many NIMRODs we already have around that have all sorts of opportunities thrown at them and yet, they choose not to take advantage. :(

Not saying there are no "disadvantaged" segments of the population here in the US. Sure there are many people that go through a lot of hardships and have it very tough. I am more referring to the ones that DO have it and yet waste it all away.

While I do believe that all humans deserve the same, basic, equal rights, I don't think all human beings are "created equal". Some are good, some are bad; some are smart, some are dumb; some are capable and ambitious while some are lazy and useless... :)

[violette829]

Thanx Mikoyan....that was very informative. Too bad the papers are done. LMAO Damnit my friends should be kissing my ass right about now.

[violette829]

Originally posted by Seapahn I disagree. When I look around and see how many NIMRODs we already have around that have all sorts of opportunities thrown at them and yet, they choose not to take advantage. :(

Not saying there are no "disadvantaged" segments of the population here in the US. Sure there are many people that go through a lot of hardships and have it very tough. I am more referring to the ones that DO have it and yet waste it all away.

While I do believe that all humans deserve the same, basic, equal rights, I don't think all human beings are "created equal". Some are good, some are bad; some are smart, some are dumb; some are capable and ambitious while some are lazy and useless... :)


Of course there are people here who don't take every opportunity that comes their way, but that's mostly the spoiled "natives" who are in a state of comfort and don't think that they need to work or get an education, because everything is being fed to them with a silver spoon. For those of us who can't afford to go to the top schools (private), therefore are at a disadvantage because our parents came here when they were already too old to go to school or become the successful business owners. Public school education is just ridiculous these days. When I was 7, in the 2nd grade, I remember thinking to myself, even though I didn't speak the language...."ES AMENE ESHEN" which means these people are all stupid! LOL I bet if we allowed education to be based only on a person's intelligence, we would have so much more QUALITY students taking up all the f*ckin parking spots at our universities.. This would lead to smarter graduates, smarter employees in the work force, better everything!:D

[clubbin714]

Immigrants are the life blood of our nation.

Immigrants and the children of immigrants are often hard-working, fluently English-speaking, money spending, county loving, tax paying citizens.

[Sip]

Originally posted by violette829 Of course there are people here who don't take every opportunity that comes their way, but that's mostly the spoiled "natives" who are in a state of comfort ...

Unfortunately to many on the outside lookin in on this country, it seems as if life here is all about kicking back, consuming, spending the money that grows on trees, and basically like a shortcut to heaven.

What they don't realize is that although the opportunities for all that is DEFINITELY here, they are still going to have to work their asses off... maybe a lot more than they are used to back in their seemingly so "crappy" home countries.

Many outsiders simply don't realize how hard the Americans actually work ... relative to europeans for example. Of course there is exception to any general statement, but having lived and visited both US and several places in Europe, I feel comfortable in making that statement.

I have no doubt that the potential immigrant pool is going to contain some extremely bright, intelligent, and hardworking people, and some extremely useless garbage with the norms being somewhere in between. So now the difficult question is HOW to distinguish the good from the bad and I admit it is not very easy.

[Sip]

Originally posted by clubbin714 ... Immigrants and the children of immigrants are often hard-working, fluently English-speaking, money spending, county loving, tax paying citizens.

Then how do you explain all the other crappy people here in the US? Don't tell me they are not immigrants or children of immigrants :D :) With any group, you are going to end up having all kinds of people ... some brilliant scientists, some expert craftsmen, and some that go and form organized crime families and turn crime into a prolific business.

And once in a while you'll have a couple of them pick up M16's and go shoot up a bank in North Hollywood. :(

[patlajan]

Originally posted by Seapahn Unfortunately to many on the outside lookin in on this country, it seems as if life here is all about kicking back, consuming, spending the money that grows on trees, and basically like a shortcut to heaven.

What they don't realize is that although the opportunities for all that is DEFINITELY here, they are still going to have to work their asses off... maybe a lot more than they are used to back in their seemingly so "crappy" home countries.

Many outsiders simply don't realize how hard the Americans actually work ... relative to europeans for example. Of course there is exception to any general statement, but having lived and visited both US and several places in Europe, I feel comfortable in making that statement.

I have no doubt that the potential immigrant pool is going to contain some extremely bright, intelligent, and hardworking people, and some extremely useless garbage with the norms being somewhere in between. So now the difficult question is HOW to distinguish the good from the bad and I admit it is not very easy.

I like this guy. We need more moderates on this forum.

[Sip]

Originally posted by patlajan I like this guy. We need more moderates on this forum.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but the mod team here is already pretty excellent. That was the reason I joined :D

[violette829]

Perhaps we should change the name of the thread to "Recent Influx Of Immigrants"....
Ehemmmmmmmmmmmmmm MODS!:rolleyes:

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by patlajan I like this guy. We need more moderates on this forum.
Good god, don't talk like that when you don't know the guy.................


Should we allow everyone to enter into this country
definitely not.

but immigration is a hopeless case at this point. so move on, forget about the countries that have been flooded by immigrants....

on another note, 4 shootings during this last week in a small area called Scarborough. LOVELY, don't you agree?!!! Surely, those immigrants are very skilled and will get a job as soon as they come in, and not be involved in drug deals, gun smuggling, yada yada yada...... LOVELY!!! :D :D :D

[Darorinag]

So yah, I am all for "tough" selection criteria ... why should we allow any lazy bum with no prospects to be of any use to anyone to enter this country?
Oh you mean the ones who get on welfare as soon as they set foot into the country? :D :D i love them, and the way they empty my pockets in taxes. :D so let's bring more of them in!!!! why do we need skilled workers anyway? let's bring farmers from a province in China, eh? :D

a) Moral View
there is nothing immoral about selective immigration or anti-immigration for that matter. morality is an unrelated concept.

I don't think all human beings are "created equal".
Vayyyy, how racist of you to say that!!!! :mad: :mad: How dare you!!! :rolleyes:

Immigrants are the life blood of our nation.
not long ago, they weren't, and there also weren't gun crimes on every street every single day... so indeed, they are the "blood" of our "nation(s)". :D

Immigrants and the children of immigrants are often hard-working, fluently English-speaking, money spending, county loving, tax paying citizens.
You obviously live in a shell. But then again, I don't blame you. You probably don't take the bus, and you probably live in an area that is mainly houses rather than apartments, and you don't get to see the filthiest of the filthy....

Thanks for the vote of confidence but the mod team here is already pretty excellent. That was the reason I joined
No no, that's not the reason you joined. ;) the fact that you-know-who is on the mod team is the reason you joined. :p

[ckBejug]

Originally posted by patlajan I like this guy. We need more moderates on this forum.


RELAX people, Patlajan said 'moderates', not 'moderaTORS' Sheesh. Sit down, hush up. I agree with Seap. And with Patlajan. :cool:

[Anonymouse]

Immigrants really suck ass.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by ckBejug RELAX people, Patlajan said 'moderates', not 'moderaTORS' Sheesh. Sit down, hush up. I agree with Seap. And with Patlajan. :cool:
lol... phewwwww :D :D

[PASAMONSTER]

Immigrants are good for cheap labor, and I don't know I kinda like those semi-cute don't speak a word of english horny women.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by PASAMONSTER Immigrants are good for cheap labor, and I don't know I kinda like those semi-cute don't speak a word of english horny women.
lol @ "don't speak a word of english horny women." :D the chinese are the least horny of all. they seem very disinterested in sex... and yet you see them breeding more chinese in massive numbers, even here in Canada.... wtf... (maybe "dagits kordzots"?)

but Filippino / etc. women are very ummm horny - wh0rish? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: lots of filippinos here too... :rolleyes:

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by violette829 Perhaps we should change the name of the thread to "Recent Influx Of Immigrants"....
Ehemmmmmmmmmmmmmm MODS!:rolleyes:

Your wish is my command.

[patlajan]

Originally posted by loseyourname Your wish is my command.

OK now the topic is historically incorrect. Yeah big improvement. :rolleyes:

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by patlajan OK now the topic is historically incorrect. Yeah big improvement. :rolleyes:

So? She can name her thread whatever she wants, as long as it makes sense and is descriptive.

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by Seapahn
What they don't realize is that although the opportunities for all that is DEFINITELY here, they are still going to have to work their asses off... maybe a lot more than they are used to back in their seemingly so "crappy" home countries.


Yeah, life in the States is so much tougher than life in Western Asia or in Africa. I guess we also have rich foreign companies creating turmoil in our country, which causes guerilla warriors to kill our kids for no reason. And I guess we're also making shoes for a dollar a day, in the most unsafe conditions, starting at 12 years old? Are you serious about this??? You've lived in Europe, good for you. That doesn't really compare to the real "crappy" countries (as you so eloquently put it).

And why does everyone here talk as if we are NOT immigrants, or sons of immigrants, whatever....Are Armenians some special sort of immigrants who are gladly accepted wherever they go? Or are we....you know...different than the other "bad" immigrants?

Immigration does need regulation, in every country of the world. But when the richest country in the world is also against giving asylum to people who will die with their families wherever they're living, I personally see something very wrong with that.

[violette829]

Originally posted by patlajan OK now the topic is historically incorrect. Yeah big improvement. :rolleyes:

By recent, I am talking about the past 50-60 years. I am not talking about the immigrants who helped create the initial "melting pot" that this country is. SHEESH! You are so critical!:rolleyes:

[patlajan]

Originally posted by Baron Dants Yeah, life in the States is so much tougher than life in Western Asia or in Africa. I guess we also have rich foreign companies creating turmoil in our country, which causes guerilla warriors to kill our kids for no reason. And I guess we're also making shoes for a dollar a day, in the most unsafe conditions, starting at 12 years old? Are you serious about this??? You've lived in Europe, good for you. That doesn't really compare to the real "crappy" countries (as you so eloquently put it).

And why does everyone here talk as if we are NOT immigrants, or sons of immigrants, whatever....Are Armenians some special sort of immigrants who are gladly accepted wherever they go? Or are we....you know...different than the other "bad" immigrants?

Immigration does need regulation, in every country of the world. But when the richest country in the world is also against giving asylum to people who will die with their families wherever they're living, I personally see something very wrong with that.


Enough with this cry baby syndrome. Seapahan is right.

[Mikoyan]

Scum.

When Armenian Immigrants were arriving to Europe America, you know what reaction they got? the same as the most reactionary people on this board are stating, in that they are in some way a drain on the state. Fukk off. The only drain is the reactionary forces who refuse to allow progress to take place if it goes against their personal interests.

[patlajan]

Originally posted by Mikoyan Scum.

When Armenian Immigrants were arriving to Europe America, you know what reaction they got? the same as the most reactionary people on this board are stating, in that they are in some way a drain on the state. Fukk off. The only drain is the reactionary forces who refuse to allow progress to take place if it goes against their personal interests.

I agree that the "drain on the state" concept is a myth perpetuated by people who need a scapegoat and are not well informed on the issue.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Mikoyan Scum.

When Armenian Immigrants were arriving to Europe America, you know what reaction they got? the same as the most reactionary people on this board are stating, in that they are in some way a drain on the state. Fukk off. The only drain is the reactionary forces who refuse to allow progress to take place if it goes against their personal interests.
puhleez... wtf are you on?????? :mad: Armenians have been constructive wherever they went. they have built rather than destroyed. they have established businesses, helped the economy. only recently (and only in Cali) do we see the rabiz "i'm on welfare but i drive a mercedes benz" types. the percentage of Armenians who have not succeeded (among the total number of Armenian immigrants) is not even comparable to the massive number of unemployed and lazy non-Armenian immigrants. know your facts before you speak.

and what's with all the paki gangs in London these days, i keep hearing about it... they have taxi communication circuits all around the place... wtf?

[Mikoyan]

Darorinag, youve been an 1st generation immigrant in one country, and 2nd generation in another, you should be last person to blast immigrants.

Do you go to school? Yes, did you pay for that? No. Does that make you a drain on the state? according to your idiotic argument, yes.

Darorinag, even before world war 2 when there were armenians in Britain coming, the right wing in the form of the "Daily Mail" used to slate them as beggars etc. They did the same to xxxs who fleed Nazi persecution.

To answer the question of immigration, we must see where the idea of "nationhood" began. It is an artificial set of borders to further the interests of the ruling class. We saw this in Europe with Louis the 14th when he formalised borders around France so that he could push them further and further into Europe to increase the county's wealth. From this state was born a national army, national police and judiciary. this is the root of the class antagonisms we have today. Borders are made for ruling class interests. Who are these class's to say we cant move wherever we want?

[Darorinag]

Darorinag, youve been an 1st generation immigrant in one country, and 2nd generation in another, you should be last person to blast immigrants.
What I am has nothing to do with who I blast. For example, just because I am an Armenian doesn't mean I cannot be a revisionist or a denialist w.r.t the "holocaust." Ditto for immigration.

Do you go to school? Yes, did you pay for that? No. Does that make you a drain on the state? according to your idiotic argument, yes.
Yes, I go to school. Yes, I pay for my tuition 100%. So don't assume things about me. I have NOT received anything from the government. Not even treatment coverage for Christ's sake. :mad: :mad: If you don't know about me and what I had to go through because the govenment refused to provide aid to me in special circumstances (and I am not talking about university here, university is a non-issue compared to what I'm talking about, but I'm not gonna go there), and in the meanwhile made welfare payments to undeserving, unskilled immigrants, THEN you would know what I'm talking about. :mad:

They did the same to xxxs who fleed Nazi persecution.
Yeah yeah, way to assume another thing. Nazi persecution? Have you heard about the xxxish hospital that openly operated in Berlin throughout WW2? :rolleyes: I'm not gonna go into a discussion about the "holocaust" in this thread, but do read up some politically incorrect material. But I'm assuming your communist mind is not interested in political incorrectness, but rather at making all minds think alike.

To answer the question of immigration, we must see where the idea of "nationhood" began. It is an artificial set of borders to further the interests of the ruling class.
Please.. territories divided by tribes have always existed, long before there was the concept of "class." It is impossible to have no nationhood. There is a reason we are different, and there is a reason why there have always been wars between different people. as long as there's difference, there will always be problems because of that difference, and there will always be hierarchies. if there is no patriarchism, there will be matriarchism. there can't be a single moment in which the two are absolutely equal.


Borders are made for ruling class interests. Who are these class's to say we cant move wherever we want?
Borders have always existed. people have always felt inclined to mark territory and make it "theirs." LONG LONG before there was the idea of class or economy.

:rolleyes:

[Mikoyan]

"and in the meanwhile made welfare payments to undeserving, unskilled immigrants, THEN you would know what I'm talking about"
-When you can prove all immigrants are undeserving and unskilled then you can talk
-Look at statistics, majority of immigrants go abroad with a diploma

"But I'm assuming your communist mind is not interested in political incorrectness, but rather at making all minds think alike. "
-Nope, in all communist organisations the principle of debate and democracy is the core of the organisation.
-This is then transfered onto a society where discussion and debate takes place
-Its highly ironic you say this, when your the victim of right wing press who spreaad viscious lies about immigrants.

"Please.. territories divided by tribes have always existed, long before there was the concept of "class." It is impossible to have no nationhood. There is a reason we are different, and there is a reason why there have always been wars between different people. as long as there's difference, there will always be problems because of that difference, and there will always be hierarchies. if there is no patriarchism, there will be matriarchism. there can't be a single moment in which the two are absolutely equal."
-You think there are no agnostic differences in tribes pre-capitalism? You think the chief is equal to a warrior? no, this is why each tribe has a set of warriors to protect the chiefs interests. This has been the case in Africa on a much larger scale, due to the ruling class in each segment setting its toiling class against others See hutus and tutsis
-Nationhood has only been around for the last 300-400 years....
-Armenia is was made of several groupings, how is it they all managed to survive?
-wtf is this patriarch xxxx you talk of?

"Borders have always existed. people have always felt inclined to mark territory and make it "theirs." LONG LONG before there was the idea of class or economy."
-Like i said, the idea of territory came about 400 years ago, proposed by the ruling class, not by ordinary peasants who were taxed blood for the King.

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag I don't think all human beings are "created equal".Vayyyy, how racist of you to say that!!!! :mad: :mad: How dare you!!! :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

[patlajan]

Ironcally the oppressed gay guy is the biggest discriminator in here.

[Anonymouse]

Strangely so in this twisted world.

[Arvestaked]

I was planning on reading this thread but it is too long. So I will not.

I think immigration laws would not need to be any stricter if we did not have such an issue with the Mexicans. Mexican illegals should be thrown out with their families, including the ones that were born here. Anybody that comes near the border planning to cross illegally should be shot. And the people in political office that think illegals should get driver's licenses and free education should be tortured to death. If we cleaned up the issue with the southern border, we would be fine. The fact that people come here like that and take our tax money and then have kids who become citizens who will soon be a majority voting population and would elect stupid people to office is very frustrating. And I do not need anybody telling me that they take the jobs nobody wants. That suggests that the survival of United States is dependant on uneducated Mexicans. Absurd. The economy will adjust itself.

[Anonymouse]

This is like the latter stages of the Roman empire when in 212 A.D. Caracalla granted Roman citizenship to the entire freeborn population of the empire.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by patlajan Ironcally the oppressed gay guy is the biggest discriminator in here.
I never said I am oppressed, at least I NO LONGER claim I am. I left the gay rights movement some time ago. I am sick of the whining and b*tching.

-When you can prove all immigrants are undeserving and unskilled then you can talk
99% of immigrants to Canada are from India or China. 99% of the 99% have no diplomas. The communist obviously hasn't taken the bus. But then again, maybe they don't have many Pakis or Indians in Manchester, eh? :rolleyes:
What do you consider "skilled".. anyone can work at Macdonalds... That is definitely NOT skilled. Skilled means something else. It means either a degree from university or a vocation, something most of the Chinese and Indian immigrants coming from not-so-mainland provinces/areas don't have.

Seapahn, relax, I was trying to show the irony in what you said, and in your previous arguments with me about the same issue.

:rolleyes:

[Darorinag]

I think immigration laws would not need to be any stricter if we did not have such an issue with the Mexicans. Mexican illegals should be thrown out with their families, including the ones that were born here. Anybody that comes near the border planning to cross illegally should be shot. And the people in political office that think illegals should get driver's licenses and free education should be tortured to death. If we cleaned up the issue with the southern border, we would be fine. The fact that people come here like that and take our tax money and then have kids who become citizens who will soon be a majority voting population and would elect stupid people to office is very frustrating. And I do not need anybody telling me that they take the jobs nobody wants. That suggests that the survival of United States is dependant on uneducated Mexicans.
I TOTALLY agree with what you said. :D :D
Also, Chinese illegals are to Canada what Mexican illegals are to USA - i.e. thousands of them coming to the country illegally, GETTING FREE EDUCATION ILLEGALLY, GETTING WELFARE ILLEGALLY, etc.

When you don't have people abusing the system, only then can you have open immigration, not the other way around. Because only then can you be sure that you can trust them. Someone who abuses the most fundamental laws BEFORE even becoming a citizen would abuse the most fundamental laws AFTER becoming a citizen too. :rolleyes:

[anileve]

Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not. Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians. Besides Chinese are known for holding many self-owned businesses, and sending their kids to the best schools. If you take a close look at ivy league schools you may notice that reputable schools have a large percentage of Asian students.

Now in terms of immigration, intelligence and decency are not related. A severely intelligent individual may hold several degrees and be quite skilled in his trade, however it does not stop him from engaging in illegal activities or business. White-collar crime is one of the most corrupt crimes, more influential than a petty theft. White-collar crime may be a factor in downsizing and off-balancing national economy, just check politicians and major tycoons in other countries, where majority of the countries wealth lies in their hands.

Also, immigrants from many third world countries, are known to work much harder than those from western Europe, who are here mostly to expand their already booming capital or seeking political asylum. The first generation does take low end jobs without much hesitation in order to provide a better future for their children, since very rarely the opportunities presented to them in this country are not taken for granted and surely are not taken with pretentiousness, i.e. “Oh Lord, in no way would I take that ridiculous job at the grocery store, that is so degrading”. However, their hard work at the factories and other “low-end” work helps them put kids through school. And their kids as a result end up pushing out spoiled natives who do nothing but b*tch about the flow of immigrants, by taking jobs in science, technical and medical fields. If any of you are aware billionare and a co-founder Sergey Brin of Google is a Russian immigrant. Many prominent individuals of this country and many others are of a non-Western European descent. Without those “pitiful and embarrassingly low job positions” who the hell would provide mass transportation, build buildings where you can sit in a nice office and surf the net (of course because you hold your reputable degree). Who would clean up the streets and make sure that pot holes will not ruin the tires of your brand new car, bought by your immigrant mommies and daddies? Who would serve you your food at a local fast food joint?

Anyone can pretend he has an ivy league degree, or a supposed skill, and sit in the office eat donuts prentending like they are managing the business. However constructing mechanic parts of the latest car model, which you will beg your parents to buy for you, in hot and sweaty factories, requires hard work and dedication and no leisure time. Any job is important and necessary for a functioning society, it is not the skills or a degree you possess but rather dedication and hard work. US's powerful empire was build on the backs of immigrants and that is a fact.

So get off your pompous, fat asses, get yourselves a job and stop criticizing others. :D

[Anonymouse]

The idea that we should embrace endless immigration, is silly, and I am arguing this from a Statist point of view, if you want to maintain cohesion and order within your given State.

Currently the only part of the world embracing the idea of "diversity" and "immigration", are Europe, North America, and Australia. You don't see any other country, such as Japan, rolling over this idea.

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag Seapahn, relax, I was trying to show the irony in what you said, and in your previous arguments with me about the same issue.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes: How does what I said have remotely, even in the multi universe sense, from one end of the 1st universe to the other end of the infinity+1th universe have ANYTHING to do with race?

Do you simply just see race everywhere? Like do you classify the brand of breakfast cereal you don't like as "xxxrial"?

:D

Humans are NOT created equal. You have some that end up being amazing musicians, some that can make beautiful sculputres with their hands, and some that become awesome horse jockies while others that can kick even my ass in basketball. Hard work and practice and dedication can go a long way but the guy that was born to be a horse jockey has no chance in hell of ending up in NBA ... no matter how hard he tries.

[Darorinag]

Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians.
Where did you get that statistics from, oh wise one?

IMMIGRATION BY TOP TEN SOURCE COUNTRIES
(Principal Applicants and Dependants)

1) China, People's Republic of (16.10%)
2) India (11.11%)
3) Pakistan (6.13%)
4) Philippines (5.15%)
5) Korea, Republic of (3.84%)
6) United States (2.35%) <<< note that some Chinese and Indians also go to USA and come to Canada from there, sometimes illegally. Add to those the Mexicans.
7) Iran (2.29%)
8) Romania (2.23%)
9) Sri Lanka (2.20%)
10) United Kingdom (2.14%) <<< note that some Pakistanis and Indians who have been in the UK for a while apply to Canada from there, so you're not talking about pure English even here..

Total for Top Ten Only: %53.54.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2001/1imm-05.html

Source: Citizenship & Immigration Canada

Now compare 16.10% to 2.14%, and you will see what I mean. Please do not claim what you don't know. I see this with my eyes every day.

[Arvestaked]

Originally posted by anileve Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not. Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians. Besides Chinese are known for holding many self-owned businesses, and sending their kids to the best schools. If you take a close look at ivy league schools you may notice that reputable schools have a large percentage of Asian students.

Now in terms of immigration, intelligence and decency are not related. A severely intelligent individual may hold several degrees and be quite skilled in his trade, however it does not stop him from engaging in illegal activities or business. White-collar crime is one of the most corrupt crimes, more influential than a petty theft. White-collar crime may be a factor in downsizing and off-balancing national economy, just check politicians and major tycoons in other countries, where majority of the countries wealth lies in their hands.

Also, immigrants from many third world countries, are known to work much harder than those from western Europe, who are here mostly to expand their already booming capital or seeking political asylum. The first generation does take low end jobs without much hesitation in order to provide a better future for their children, since very rarely the opportunities presented to them in this country are not taken for granted and surely are not taken with pretentiousness, i.e. “Oh Lord, in no way would I take that ridiculous job at the grocery store, that is so degrading”. However, their hard work at the factories and other “low-end” work helps them put kids through school. And their kids as a result end up pushing out spoiled natives who do nothing but b*tch about the flow of immigrants, by taking jobs in science, technical and medical fields. If any of you are aware billionare and a co-founder Sergey Brin of Google is a Russian immigrant. Many prominent individuals of this country and many others are of a non-Western European descent. Without those “pitiful and embarrassingly low job positions” who the hell would provide mass transportation, build buildings where you can sit in a nice office and surf the net (of course because you hold your reputable degree). Who would clean up the streets and make sure there are pot holes will not ruin the tires of your brand new care bought by your immigrant mommies and daddies? Who would serve you your food at a local fast food joint?

Anyone can pretend he has an ivy league degree, or supposed skill sit in the office eat donuts and pretend like they are managing the business. However constructing mechanic parts of the latest car model, which you will beg your parents to buy for you, in hot and sweaty factories, requires hard work and dedication and no leisure time. Any job is important and necessary for a functioning society, it is not the skills or a degree you possess but rather dedication and hard work. US's powerful empire was build on the backs of immigrants and that is a fact.

So get off your pompous, fat asses, get yourselves a job and stop criticizing others. :D


Now I did not read the thread, as I had said but there are probably very few people that believe the borders should be entirely closed. There should always be some immigration and most people would feel that way. You do not need to point to specific examples because this country is a bunch of immigrants. However, for the sake of maintaining the diversity and reasonable population, immigration should be strictly regulated with regards to ethnicity and overall numbers of immigrants; otherwise, what seems to you as a source of hardwork now, will be detrimental in many ways in the future. And there is never an excuse for illegal immigration and I stand by my kicking-out and killing idea. Not having illegal thirdworld immigrants will just cause businesses to compete for employment like they should be. It does not mean that there will suddenly be nobody to take these jobs; that is a ridiculous thought. Those jobs will pay more or be made more desirable in different ways and will be filled.

[Darorinag]

The above were the 2001 figures.

Now let's look at the 2002 figures, shall we? :D

1) China, People's Republic of (14.51%) < down
2) India (12.58%) < UP
3) Pakistan (6.18%) < UP
4) Philippines (4.80%) < down
5) Iran (3.38%) < UP
6) Korea, Republic of (3.20%) < down
7) Romania (2.48%) < up
8) United States (2.31%) < up
9) Sri Lanka (2.17%) < down
10) United Kingdom (2.06%) < DOWN

Top 1 (China) down by ~ 1.5%, 2nd is up by ~1.5%.... fooling the masses? :rolleyes:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2002/immigration/immigration_5.html

[clubbin714]

I am tired of people especially in Californians screaming about immigrants, about the language they speak and forcing our "god" down there throat.

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could argue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak Spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak Spanish and force anyone speaking English in those areas to learn Spanish or move out?


The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the xxxish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

[Sip]

Originally posted by anileve Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not.

Very very true! Some of you guys may have already heard about this example ... of how University of North Carolina's average Geography graduate from their undergrad program now makes $300,000 per year.

Whooo hooooooo ... I wanna be a geography major at UNC :rolleyes: :D

But the strange thing is that they didn't lie. As a hint, Michael Jordan was a geography major in his college days ;)

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by clubbin714 I am tired of people especially in Californians screaming about immigrants, about the language they speak and forcing our "god" down there throat.

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could argue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak Spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak Spanish and force anyone speaking English in those areas to learn Spanish or move out?


The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the xxxish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

I doubt whether or not the country being found on Christianity has anything to do with immigration.

With that said, the idea that we are a nation of immigrants therefore we should open all our borders and dilute, sounds silly to me.

Technically speaking every nation is a nation of "immigrants". What's the point with that? There is none.

[Darorinag]

Sometimes I feel like people pull statistics out of their ass in order to say something, not relevant to whether it holds water or not.
Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants as opposed to only 8% of Asians.
How's your *ss doing, since you pulled so much BS out of it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Take a look at the stats provided by IMMIGRATION CANADA.

1) Asia and Pacific (51.90%)
2) Africa and the Middle East (20.13%)
3) Europe and the United Kingdom (16.95%)
4) South and Central America (8.48%)
5) United States (2.31%)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2002/immigration/immigration_5.html

Note that Asia doesn't include the Middle East (including Iran)

How's your "8% Asians" doing? Maybe you confused that with South & Central America?

Can we say OWNED? :p

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag How's your *ss doing, since you pulled so much BS out of it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Take a look at the stats provided by IMMIGRATION CANADA.


Unlike you I don't pull out statistics out of White Supremacist's asses. Please look into the CIS Worldfactbook for the validity of the figures. Also I am enclosing a source for a an ethnic survey conducted by the Canadian Statistics.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030929/d030929a.htm

[Darorinag]

Unlike you I don't pull out statistics out of White Supremacist's asses. Please look into the CIS Worldfactbook for the validity of the figures. Also I am enclosing a source for a an ethnic survey conducted by the Canadian Statistics.

lol, now the Canadian government is White supremacist? Huh?

Seapahn, I think you can now ask anileve that cereal question. :D

The website is the cic.gc.ca, the website of Government of Canada. It is NOT a White supremacist website. It's a government website. The same government that is throwing in jail people like Zundel. :rolleyes:

[anileve]

Originally posted by clubbin714 America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!! :D
==============

As for others...

How do you propose immigration should be regulated? There are always glitches and favoritism in the system. Immigration Services is not comprised of a group of moral and objective individuals who apply tactics of psychological analysis of judging immigrants morals and noble nature. Otherwise so many governments wouldn't struggle with their immigration policies. The strategies do not work with this selection process, it's always the extremes. Either you employ the act of open borders or you restrict immigration all together. Neither one of the tactics are plausible and have flaws. Illegal immigration exists for several reasons, and it is not up to you to decided what is accurate or not, people have reasons behind crossing the borders illegally and I assure you it is not because they feel like taking a vacation in Florida. Illegal immigrants are not only comprised of scum, that do nothing but infest the country “with filth”. Many have no money or have political reasons which by the Immigration Standards doesn't permit them to enter the premises of a certain country. As an example of this would be Cubans, who illegally enter the country in order to escape the severe and fatal punishment by the Castro's regime, only because they chose to exercise freedom of speech in the controlled by the government media. It is not for you to judge which individual is eligible to enter the country or not. Obviously they must have had a valid reason to be granted residence in the country. The flow of Mexicans is not as much of an issue in the east coast as it is in California, for the obvious reasons of it bordering Mexico. Mexicans on the other hand bring major benefits to the corporations in their search for cost efficient employment, if it wasn't advantageous to many business I doubt that the “influx” of Mexicans would be elevated to this level. So how exactly is it damaging to the economy?

[Darorinag]

You are talking about OVERALL POPULATION, NOT immigration, hokis. Hence your link doesn't support your claims.

May I remind you of what you said:

Canada interestingly enough, despite some peoples disdain with the immigration is composed of largely British immigrants. Eastern and Western European immigrants comprise the second largest immigration group in Canada as opposed to only 8% of Asians.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve Unlike you I don't pull out statistics out of White Supremacist's asses. Please look into the CIS Worldfactbook for the validity of the figures. Also I am enclosing a source for a an ethnic survey conducted by the Canadian Statistics.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030929/d030929a.htm

How was his site White Supremecist? Let's stop black balling information by dubbing them "supremecist", thereby making them "invalid" based on guilty by association.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Anonymouse How was his site White Supremecist? Let's stop black balling information by dubbing them "supremecist", thereby making them "invalid" based on guilty by association.

Check out the main page: cic.gc.ca (it's the Citizenship & Immigration Canada website). It is NOT a White supremacist website. :rolleyes:

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag lol, now the Canadian government is White supremacist? Huh?

Seapahn, I think you can now ask anileve that cereal question. :D

The website is the cic.gc.ca, the website of Government of Canada. It is NOT a White supremacist website. It's a government website. The same government that is throwing in jail people like Zundel. :rolleyes:

Excuse me, a percentage of growth in the immigration does not decide the overall quantities of a dominating immigrant group of a certain country. It is a fact that British occupy the largest sector of Canada. Research your statistics well, before you spit out ignorance.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by anileve Excuse me, a percentage of growth in the immigration does not decide the overall quantities of a dominating immigrant group of a certain country. It is a fact that British occupy the largest sector of Canada. Research your statistics well, before you spit out ignorance.
We are talking about new immigrants. We are talking about the changing figures. We aren't arguing that 100 years ago, the chinese had taken over our cities, and you couldn't see any Chinese. I never said there were more Chinese in the country than Europeans. I said they are bringing in more Chinese than Europeans. More Chinese than ANYONE else. More than 50% of new immigrants are from Asia (Middle East EXCLUDED). We were talking about whether or not people agreed that we should open the borders to all new immigrants. We weren't talking about whether or not we should kick out already settled immigrants. :rolleyes:

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse How was his site White Supremecist? Let's stop black balling information by dubbing them "supremecist", thereby making them "invalid" based on guilty by association.

That remark was addressed to his overall statements and racist views. I've carefully examined the website and said nothing to the effect of it being supremacist, but there is a whole science behind reading and interpreting statistics as I've pointed out to you before. Where as for you my dear, kiss my Armenian-Non Aryan- immigrant ass. :D

[Arvestaked]

How do you propose immigration should be regulated? There are always glitches and favoritism in the system.

This is something I always read when someone uses past failures as an arguement against a political or economic approach. An example would be "Saying such and such thing is unconstitutional means nothing because we have income taxes." Just because we are governed by human nature does not mean that our principles should change accordingly. People strive for perfection not expecting to achieve it.

Plus, how it is to be regulated is less significant in this thread than whether we feel it should be or not. And if the federal government was not wasting tax money on Iraq and long term things like "the war on drugs," we could easily take care of this nonsense.

Mexicans on the other hand bring major benefits to the corporations in their search for cost efficient employment, if it wasn't advantageous to many business I doubt that the “influx” of Mexicans would be elevated to this level. So how exactly is it damaging to the economy?

First of all, fuhck corporations. Relying on immigration is as bad as outsourcing. Like I said before, if the immigrants are not around, employers will be forced to compete for employement and that is a good thing. When you consider the effects on the economy, how big business benefits is not the only angle. Think decrease in property value and throwing away taxes, etc.

[Darorinag]

That remark was addressed to his overall statements and racist views.
Yes yes, change your words now..... :rolleyes:

I don't pull out statistics out of White Supremacist's asses
:D

I was simply posting stats, I wasn't arguing anything. But what can I say, stats don't lie, and if me sticking by the stats means that I'm racist, then so be it. :D

there is a whole science behind reading and interpreting statistics as I've pointed out to you before.
A whole science? lol... statistics isn't rocket science, you know... especially interpreting them. it says 50%+ of new immigrants are from Asia, and that's that. Period. No argument, no nothing. It's CLEAR.

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag We are talking about new immigrants. We are talking about the changing figures. We aren't arguing that 100 years ago, the chinese had taken over our cities, and you couldn't see any Chinese. I never said there were more Chinese in the country than Europeans. I said they are bringing in more Chinese than Europeans. More Chinese than ANYONE else. More than 50% of new immigrants are from Asia (Middle East EXCLUDED). We were talking about whether or not people agreed that we should open the borders to all new immigrants. We weren't talking about whether or not we should kick out already settled immigrants. :rolleyes:

Once again, you are pioneering a complete lack of logic in your reasoning. Immigration will always fluctuate between groups of different ethnicities, for various reasons. However recent flow of Asians will not nearly balance out the current composition of the ethnic make up of Canada which is largely French and British. There are no restriction on the immigration from Western-Europe, in fact they have it easier than anyone else. It is a matter of them not finding a benefit in relocating to other countries, if they are of a middle class in their own country and hold satisfactory jobs, it is obvious that they will find no advantage in changing their location of residence.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by clubbin714 I am tired of people especially in Californians screaming about immigrants, about the language they speak and forcing our "god" down there throat.

Who says we speak English? America has no official language and several states list both English and Spanish as their official language. Over half don't even have an official language and provide services in the languages of the majority and any sizable minorities. You could argue that since the majority of Americans speak English that it is therefore THE language, but in some sw states the majority will soon speak Spanish as a first language. In those states should we then only speak Spanish and force anyone speaking English in those areas to learn Spanish or move out?


The majority of the founding fathers were not, in fact, Christians in true sense of the word. Like many of the prominent Europeans of the time, they were in fact deists, often times denying or minimizing the role of Jesus in religion. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and John Adams being a few examples.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11 states:
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”

James Madison:
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

Thomas Paine - From The Age of Reason, pp. 8–9:
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the xxxish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all.”


America is an immigrant nation. There is no true homogenous "American" culture, all there is European culture and African culture and Mideastern Culture and Asian culture that has been brought here. Right now the majority follow English customs and the standard culture of America is English, but soon that may change. When the majority of America speak Spanish and are atheists, it will be the English speakers who will be asking for equal rights and representation. All we ask is that the minority is respected as much as the majority.


Despite egalitarian views that“diversity” and "immigration" is hopelessly tied to this country, lets look at an alternative. For the most part, the origins of this country are self consciously homogeneous. In 1787, in the second of The Federalist Papers, John Jay gave thanks that “Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs . . . .” That hardly sounds like he is basking in "diversity is our strength" rhetoric.

[Darorinag]

recent flow of Asians will not nearly balance out the current composition of the ethnic make up of Canada which is largely French and British.
That's not what I was arguing, or anyone else for that matter. the figures have not fluctuated much between the different continents.

There are no restriction on the immigration from Western-Europe, in fact they have it easier than anyone else.
Aren't there? If there are quotas, and 50% of the total immigration is occupied by the Asian quota, and the rest of the 50% occupied by the rest of the continents, isn't there a restriction..?

Let's take a look at the 1998 figures, shall we? That's right, 6 years ago, and let's see if there has been any change in the ranking and percentage of people from certain countries and continents..

1)China, People's Republic (11.34%)
2) India (8.80%)
3) Philippines (4.69%)
4) Hong Kong (4.64%)
5) Pakistan (4.64%)
6) Taiwan (4.11%)
7) Iran (3.89%)
8) Korea, Republic Of (2.82%)
9) United States Of America (2.74%)
10) Russia (2.47%)
11) United Kingdom (2.23%)

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/pub/facts1998.pdf

[Darorinag]

My point is, the top 5 has almost always been Asian countries.

1996 top 5 source countries:

1) Hong Kong
2) India
3) China
4) Taiwan
5) Philippines

1996 top 5 source countries:

1) Hong Kong
2) India
3) China
4) Taiwan
5) Pakistan

Immigration (2002) by Language ability:

English (43.44%)
French (4.65%)
Both French and English (5.99%)
Neither (45.92%)

Compare that to 1996 Language ability:

English (51.77%)
French (4.33%)
Both French and English (2.92%)
Neither (40.96%)

1997:

English (51.51%)
French (3.84%)
Both French and English (2.83%)
Neither (41.80%)

1998:

English (47.70%)
French (4.81%)
Both French and English (3.70%)
Neither (43.75%)

[anileve]

You fail to understand statistics or obvious facts, all because you are blinded by your hate towards Asians. You neglect to pay attention to what is presented and keep drilling your own perception on issues. I will no longer argue with you, your views are purely subjective and you refuse to see anything beyond that. I've said everything there has to be said, and to people that pay attention to the contents it will seem logical, however you keep recylcing your thoughts. Statistics are not to be taken at face value but one has to spend time studying various environmental, historical and sociological factors. And yes, statistics is a science and a field which is made into a profession by many.

[violette829]

MODS!!! Can we please change the title of this thread to RECENT INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS??????????

[Darorinag]

all because you are blinded by your hate towards Asians.
What do my views have anything to do with this? I am simply posting statistics, and so far, my views on most of immigration being based on non-skilled people have been supported by them.

You seem to be arguing that it's necessary or OK to bring so many Asians into the country for balance, but how is that fair to the British? But of course, I should've known the answer to this question - you hate the Brits, because they're SO racist (that's why they keep bringing so many chinese into the country, right?)

And do you consider today's Canadians British? Their ancestors were the ones who built this country. They might be a huge part of the population, but that is no justification for bringing in millions of Chinese per year to balance it out. This is clearly not China. If they want to make it China, they can go and do it in China. People who come here come to Toronto because it's Toronto, not Beijing. :rolleyes:

[anileve]

Originally posted by violette829 MODS!!! Can we please change the title of this thread to RECENT INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS??????????

I am confused, I thought that was the title initially? Or was it perhaps "Recent influx of Asian and Mexican Immigrants", judging from the flow of the thread that seems to be more of an appropriate title.:p

[Darorinag]

the title initially was "immigration", then it was changed (upon Violette's request) to Recent Influx of Immigration... I am confused too.. maybe she didn't notice the change? :confused:

[loleeg]

lol immigrants and immigration are different. immigration is an influx of immigrants influx of immigration doesn't make sense:D

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by loleeg lol immigrants and immigration are different. immigration is an influx of immigrants influx of immigration doesn't make sense:D
Ohhh, damn, I didn't pay attention to it... lol.. yeah, makes sense. :D

[anileve]

Originally posted by Seapahn Unfortunately to many on the outside lookin in on this country, it seems as if life here is all about kicking back, consuming, spending the money that grows on trees, and basically like a shortcut to heaven.

What they don't realize is that although the opportunities for all that is DEFINITELY here, they are still going to have to work their asses off... maybe a lot more than they are used to back in their seemingly so "crappy" home countries.

Many outsiders simply don't realize how hard the Americans actually work ... relative to europeans for example. Of course there is exception to any general statement, but having lived and visited both US and several places in Europe, I feel comfortable in making that statement.

I have no doubt that the potential immigrant pool is going to contain some extremely bright, intelligent, and hardworking people, and some extremely useless garbage with the norms being somewhere in between. So now the difficult question is HOW to distinguish the good from the bad and I admit it is not very easy.

I share patlajan's view. I am so glad you've joined. :D

[loleeg]

Originally posted by Darorinag Ohhh, damn, I didn't pay attention to it... lol.. yeah, makes sense. :D

yay! violette see? you and me rock! hehehehehehe!!!!!!!:D

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag A whole science? lol... statistics isn't rocket science, you know... especially interpreting them.

It is true that statistics is not rocket science. However, much like rocket science, in the hands of the novice, statistics can blow up and make a big ass mess like when the turkey blows up in the microwave.

It is absolutely a science ... it is absolutely completely non-trivial to deal with it .. .and especially very non trivial to interpret it.

If you refer to my example posted above about average salaries of graduate geography studends at UNC being about $300K per year ... if you didn't understand that statistic correctly, you'd be very tempted to go study geography at UNC. :rolleyes:

I have a feeling that's what Anileve has been trying to get accross the whole time that simply copy-pasting percentages from a website does not a good little racist boy make. :p

Put some effort into it ... put some thought into it ... then maybe you can become a good racist one day.

... or maybe you will realize that racism is inherently the product of a lazy mind. To go back to the point you brought up earlier about me saying humans are not created equal ... I hope you realize the fundamental difference between what I am saying and what you are babbling. I made distinction between individual humans. You just group them up and make "borsh" out of them and then decide which borsh you like and which you don't. :)

[Sip]

Originally posted by anileve I share patlajan's view. I am so glad you've joined. :D

Thanks for all the kind welcomes :cool: :)

[Darorinag]

It is absolutely a science ... it is absolutely completely non-trivial to deal with it .. .and especially very non trivial to interpret it.
I never claimed it's not science. I've studied statistics for a long time. I know how to deal with it. I know how to interpret it. It's not difficult.

I have a feeling that's what Anileve has been trying to get accross the whole time that simply copy-pasting percentages from a website does not a good little racist boy make.
I was not simply copy-pasting the percentages. I pasted them so that everyone can read them and interpret them. I did not post them because I'm a copy-paste-done type. Arguably, I did make an argument using them. And so far, neither you, nor anileve, nor anyone else, has pointed out what is wrong in my usage of those statistics and in my interpretation of them.

What is unclear in my interpretation? I am claiming that more than 45% (increasing constantly) of NEW immigrants (hence the TITLE of the thread : RECENT influx of immigration) know neither English nor French. I am not talking about USA. I'm talking about Canada here. I don't claim to know the state of immigration in USA since I don't live there (unlike you-know-who). Never did I make the claim that those percentages applied to the entire population. We were stritctly talking about NEW immigration and the number of immigrants (and source countries) being brought in. Nothing more, nothing less. Simple.

Put some effort into it ... put some thought into it ... then maybe you can become a good racist one day.
Nothing in what I was arguing was racist. I might BE a racist in reality, but that is irrelevant to an argument if you can't prove the role it plays in my argument. Just because my argument and my racism occur simultaneously doesn't mean that one is causing the other. Saying that I am racist and that's why I hold those views and therefore my views don't make sense is an ad hominem circumstancial. Besides, which comes first, racism, or immigration? How do you know that it is not immigration that caused me to be racist (if I am), but rather that my racism caused me to have those views on immigration?

I hope you realize the fundamental difference between what I am saying and what you are babbling.
Your biased language and choice of words disqualifies you from making any objective statements in this thread; you are arguing that *I* am in that situation because I am racist, but aren't you in the same position too? You are, after all, an anti-racist, no?

You are attacking ME, NOT my arguments. You are YET to point out any logical errors in my conclusion from the statistics. If you still want to do it, please do. I am not interested in name-calling. I am interested in holding a decent discussion.

But of course, without even looking at the actual URL of the source, Ms. Anileve assumed that it came from a White supremacist website because it wasn't favourable to her position. How about THAT for prejudice? What makes HER position any better than mine? Simply because she's being politically correct?

If you don't have anything of substance to say in reply to my argument, just don't say it at all, is my point of view. Because then you lose all credibility for attacking the person behind the argument, rather than the argument itself.

So, Ms. Anileve, how was that oh-so-white-supremacist website? Did you think your trick would work all the time like it did with Martin Luther King? :D

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by anileve I share patlajan's view. I am so glad you've joined. :D
I would be SO glad too, if I were in the same position as you are in this thread. ;) :p

peace

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag Your biased language and choice of words disqualifies you from making any objective statements in this thread; you are arguing that *I* am in that situation because I am racist, but aren't you in the same position too? You are, after all, an anti-racist, no?

I am anti-stupid ways of thinking. I am not going to argue with anyone about differences in races! Obviously there are differences in races. Just the definition of race itself implies something different ... some sort of classification.

What I am "anti" is anti pre-judging an individual based on a general categorization. That is stupid-thinking according to me and yes, I am anti that.

[Darorinag]

anti pre-judging an individual based on a general categorization
Heh, and isn't placing someone in the general category of "stupid" JUST that? :D

But since you didn't raise any arguments about what I posted re: immigration, then I am assuming that you've got nothing to say about it. Feel free to say otherwise if I am wrong. :)

You have failed to SHOW how my arguments in this thread were racist. But then again, I'm not surprised. After all, you guys call anyone who disagrees with you about history and politics RACIST. :p

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag
So, Ms. Anileve, how was that oh-so-white-supremacist website? Did you think your trick would work all the time like it did with Martin Luther King? :D

What on earth are you talking about??? My trick with Martin Luther King? Your paranoia would lead you to believe such fairy tales wouldn't it? My remark was not pertaining to the site you've posted, where unlike you I usually read through before jumping to conclusions. The fact that you are a racist, makes your views very unsubstantial, since there is a persistent tone of prejudice in majority of your posts. To make a rather observational statement one must be free of bias and subjective views. Most of your information comes as a result of some gibberish you pick up at your White Nationalist sites, forums and groups you are a member of. As an example of that is a typical formation of your oh so profound thoughts, here is a rough scenario:

“Bitter Dan is crossing the street to get to his school full of unfriendly students. Overwhelmed with his latest thoughts on Mr. Kings plagiarism he fails to stay aware of his surroundings, when he bumps into a blind Asian lady who is startled and starts waving around with a cane accidentally hitting Dan in the head. Dan, easily inflamed, runs home in rage and types in his search engine: “Asians, bastards, filthy pigs, need to go back home, anti-Asian immigration”. Results are displayed mainly consisting of other, ignorant, angry and disturbed little clans such as White Supremacist sites. He reads them and becomes inspired, ingrains those views and goes to the forum to display his newly acquired information. And the process goes on.”

Statistics as Seapahn pointed out is a non-trivial science, and yes in possession of wrong and a bias mindset, it can be interpreted and later used in a negative connotation to spread false information. Statistics is not: “Hey, I see tons of bums in the streets who happen to be black, well then it's obvious based on my superior observation that blacks comprise the largest group of poverty in America.” That is statistically wrong, just as it is wrong to look at a GDP growth rate of Armenia and say “Wow the number indicates 8% growth rate, hell Armenian economy is booming then, everyone must have jobs, and everything is mighty dandy” That is also inaccurate conclusion, resulting from an obvious neglect of environmental, sociological and political factors. Statistics is a very sensitive and largely manipulated field, it is not to be taken at face value and treated as these are figures and I shall post them to make a point.

Race is a myth it has been invented to single out a category of people who have been singled out as inferior or superior, based on bias views of prejudice individuals. It's not a fact but rather a part of an individual process. Many use race and ethnicity interchangeably which is absolutely incorrect.

Seap, I agree with you 100%!

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve

Race is a myth it has been invented to single out a category of people who have been singled out as inferior or superior, based on bias views of prejudice individuals. It's not a fact but rather a part of an individual process. Many use race and ethnicity interchangeably which is absolutely incorrect.

Seap, I agree with you 100%!

Race is not a myth. That statement lacks merit and it itself is an egalitarian myth. The fact that the same egalitarian blacks cry for "racial justice" shows that itself is alive and real. And yes, the world is comprised of unequal people and unequal groups and some people are superior over others, despite what your view of the world 'ought' to be.

Of course, when one states that xxxs overwhelmingly support egalitarian ideas, and institutions, and immigration, and "diversity", one is a "racist". I agree with Dan here. There is no way around the facts, and yes facts are facts otherwise we wouldn't have them.

But to those that wish to bask in their egalitarian fiction, pay no attention to this post.

However, it should be noted, unlike Dan, I only hate people who get on my nerves, and that's usually Asian drivers.

[Darorinag]

Yet another attack on the individual by Ms. Anileve, rather than the post. You think you're so smart, don't you? You still haven't said anything about WHAT the logical error in my stats-conclusion dynamics was. You are making comparisons, but sadly, those comparisons do not hold.

You might WISH that there were NO race or sex differences, but facts are facts, and you are in denial.

You clearly implied that the data I posted was from a White supremacist website. Anyone who says otherwise would be truly blind.

You need to learn how to separate a person's past from what their current views and arguments are. Just because I have been pro-xxxish in the past doesn't mean that it's right to bring that into an argument when I'm talking with a neo-Nazi, for example. That is childish and totally ignores the rules of discussion. It's a VERY cheap shot. Clearly, I didn't bring any White supremacy into my argument w.r.t. "skilled" immigrants and the statistics I presented. In no way did those stats imply that I consider them inferior to Whites or any other race when it comes to skill level. But you didn't fail to bring that in, just like you always do. Because you can't answer my questions or reply to my arguments. I've seen so many people like you, so it doesn't come as a surprise. I can be gay and still argue against gay people's actions in a certain post or thread, and I have done that on more than one occasion.

To make a rather observational statement one must be free of bias and subjective views.
Perhaps. But aren't you biased too? What makes YOUR bias correct and mine incorrect, when it comes into an argument? You are clearly a feminist; you are also anti-racist. Everyone is biased - after all, if we weren't, we wouldn't be individuals, because we wouldn't be having any personal opinions. That disqualifies everyone then, doesn't it? Or double standards perhaps?

[Darorinag]

unlike Dan, I only hate people who get on my nerves
Umm, that's true in my case too. Except that those who get on my nerves are more than just drivers. :rolleyes:

Asian drivers.
Heh, they have a great reputation, don't they? Maybe it's the eyes, after all.. who knows? :D and who says there's no difference in races, eh? :D

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Race is not a myth. That statement lacks merit and it itself is an egalitarian myth. The fact that the same egalitarian blacks cry for "racial justice" shows that itself is alive and real. And yes, the world is comprised of unequal people and unequal groups and some people are superior over others, despite what your view of the world 'ought' to be.

Of course, when one states that xxxs overwhelmingly support egalitarian ideas, and institutions, and immigration, and "diversity", one is a "racist". I agree with Dan here. There is no way around the facts, and yes facts are facts otherwise we wouldn't have them.

But to those that wish to bask in their egalitarian fiction, pay no attention to this post.

However, it should be noted, unlike Dan, I only hate people who get on my nerves, and that's usually Asian drivers.

This should be taken to the race thread. Anon, stop it with your egalitarian mambo jumbo and read my post. The definition I gave you is not my own but rather an actual definition of what race is. Once again the term is of a sociological origin. What does factually exist is ethnicity. Race was invented to separate people into classes and subordinate ethnicities into social categories. Perhaps for once you can treat the matter objectively and provide sources of your claims rather than express your personal assumption. Let me give you a definition of ethnicity...

Ethinic group:
A collection of people distinguished, by others or by themselves, primarily on the basis of cultural or nationality characteristics.

That term is factual and indisputable. You are interchanging the terms, which is inaccurate.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve This should be taken to the race thread. Anon, stop it with your egalitarian mambo jumbo and read my post. The definition I gave you is not my own but rather an actual definition of what race is. Once again the term is of a sociological origin. What does factually exist is ethnicity. Race was invented to separate people into classes and subordinate ethnicities into social categories. Perhaps for once you can treat the matter objectively and provide sources of your claims rather than express your personal assumption. Let me give you a definition of ethnicity...

Ethinic group:
A collection of people distinguished, by others or by themselves, primarily on the basis of cultural or nationality characteristics.

That term is factual and indisputable. You are interchanging the terms, which is inaccurate.

Culture is a reflection of race, dear, not the other way around. Take these posts to the race thread. You can state that it is of "sociological origin", yet you would have to account for the obvious biological differences.

And how would race be "invented" if there had always been Negroids, Mongoloids and Caucasoids?

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag

You clearly implied that the data I posted was from a White supremacist website. Anyone who says otherwise would be truly blind.

First of all anyone who says that is blind, and you are the only one saying it. I fail to see your so called clarity. Did I say: "Wow, that site is a Supremacist site!" Or did I generally imply that your information often comes from those? Don't pick on things, just to say something, but try to understand their implications, paranoia as you've claimed yourself to possess, should train an individual to be more careful with implications.

[Darorinag]

So are you saying that there are no physical, intellectual, etc. differences in races, and therefore no races, and that justifies why immigration should be open to all, because the idea of race is fake and it aims to segregate people? I don't follow. What about the anthropological proofs to the differences between races? If everything were cultural, how can you explain the difference between a Turk and an Armenian, and between an Armenian and a Latino? Is it all just about ethnicity? It clearly is not.

And this is very much related to immigration, because a lot of people claim that immigration should be for all because all are equal.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve First of all anyone who says that is blind, and you are the only one saying it. I fail to see your so called clarity. Did I say: "Wow, that site is a Supremacist site!" Or did I generally imply that your information often comes from those? Don't pick on things, just to say something, but try to understand their implications, paranoia as you've claimed yourself to possess, should train an individual to be more careful with implications.

Might I interject?

So what if "most" of his information usually comes from "white supremacist" sites? What judgement or evaluation goes into determining they are "supremacist"? Because they back let say, white nationalist claims?

So by that logic you quoting your pro diversity articles is biased as well. What's your point? It is only when the facts meet the facts can there be a fusion in which truth will reveal itself. Truth will be there, but if we don't wish to accept it, we will reject because of whatever biases one has, be their "supremacist" or "egalitarian".

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag
Perhaps. But aren't you biased too? What makes YOUR bias correct and mine incorrect, when it comes into an argument? You are clearly a feminist; you are also anti-racist. Everyone is biased - after all, if we weren't, we wouldn't be individuals, because we wouldn't be having any personal opinions. That disqualifies everyone then, doesn't it? Or double standards perhaps?

Well let's apply our analytical skills shall we? Yes I am a feminist but I am not anti-men, your lack of understanding of what feminism stands for me should prevent you from bringing it into this discussion, for it holds no logic in this case.

And yes I am anti-racist, but also that would mean that I am anti-someone who is anti-so much and so many. As a result one negative cancels out the other and we are left with, alas 0 prejudice on my part. Viola!

[Darorinag]

did I generally imply that your information often comes from those?
Ooooohhhhhhhh dear, as Mrs. Doubtfire would say....

That I "often" post my information from White supremacist sites does not mean that the URL that I posted was White supremacist. So what you said was EITHER irrelevant OR wrong. Pick one. :)

[Darorinag]

So being intolerant of intolerance is not intolerance? Wow... heh.. how about THAT for hypocrisy... :D

[Anonymouse]

Let's not get to gay shall we? Keep it more academic and avoid exaggerated expressions.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Darorinag So being intolerant of intolerance is not intolerance? Wow... heh.. how about THAT for hypocrisy... :D

That's generally what one can point out too.

I remember in junior college when I stated something controversial in class, I was met by a raving liberal nut, who herself didn't know what the traditional liberal ideals are.

Tolerance only with those whom you agree with is the accepted rite. By the way, it should be noted that those who disagree with homosexuality are treated very intolerantly by the tolerant people.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Let's not get to gay shall we? Keep it more academic and avoid exaggerated expressions.
Not at all. So far, I have not made any personal attacks. I simply posted statistics to support my claims. And look where that got me. The truth is always problematic, isn't it? :(

By the way, it should be noted that those who disagree with homosexuality are treated very intolerantly by the tolerant people.
Yes!! Exactly. Good point.

[anileve]

Originally posted by Darorinag Ooooohhhhhhhh dear, as Mrs. Doubtfire would say....

That I "often" post my information from White supremacist sites does not mean that the URL that I posted was White supremacist. So what you said was EITHER irrelevant OR wrong. Pick one. :)

Anileve: Dan, nowhere in my statement did I indicate that the Canadian site was of supremacist nature. I've implied that most of your material is drawn out of those sources.

Dan: How can you say that it's a White Supremacist site?

Anileve: I never said it is Dan

Dan: Yes you did, yes you did. I believe in my own interpretation that makes it valid. That is what you've said.

Anileve: No Dan, where did I imply that?

Dan: Yes you did, yes you did, I shall be a broken record if it makes me more important.

Anileve: Gosh the weather is nice, I'd like a cup of tea.

Dan: Yes you did, Yes you did! You've said it, yes you did, yes you did, YES YOU DID.

Anileve: Quoting Dan: ":rolleyes: " Ok, your father is stronger than mine Dan, you can have your toy back.

[Darorinag]

Quoting Anonymouse:
Let's not get to gay shall we? Keep it more academic and avoid exaggerated expressions.

Very timely!!!

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Culture is a reflection of race, dear, not the other way around.

Ok, what on earth does that even mean????? If culture was a reflection of race, we can say that Italians and the British are not of White race, culture my dear has a closer correlation with ethnicity rather than with race.

[patlajan]

Originally posted by anileve Ok, what on earth does that even mean????? If culture was a reflection of race, we can say that Italians and the British are not of White race, culture my dear has a closer correlation with ethnicity rather than with race.

Leave Homo erectus alone. He's Richard Simmons with a swastika. He'll decorate your house and then burn crosses in your back yard.

[Darorinag]

If culture was a reflection of race, we can say that Italians and the British are not of White race
You were just saying that there are no races. What happened to that? :confused:

And yes, different black countries have similar cultures, that are different from the cultures of the White race or the Asians.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve Ok, what on earth does that even mean????? If culture was a reflection of race, we can say that Italians and the British are not of White race, culture my dear has a closer correlation with ethnicity rather than with race.

Youre right in one sense that culture is a reflection of an ethnicity, but that ethnicity eventually belongs to a population group. For example the white race has a culture more similar, i.e. Christianity, the alphabets characters are more similar to each other, as well as architecture, whereas the Mongoloid peoples while having differing ethnicities ( which is in reality differing cultures ), have their own architectural styles and alphabet structures, etc.

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag ... anti pre-judging an individual based on a general categorizationHeh, and isn't placing someone in the general category of "stupid" JUST that? :D ... not if that person has been "judged" and not "pre-judged" into that category.

[dusken]

And all of this has everything to do with immigration.

[Darorinag]

... not if that person has been "judged" and not "pre-judged".
Judged and not pre-judged. So are you saying that you think I'm stupid based on my arguments? If I got that right, then please explain WHAT in my arguments make me stupid. The fact that you disagree? Arguably, many White nationalists would think that I am totally right in believing in White supremacy, whereas you disagree. And I might think that your views regarding race and immigration suck, while you (and many others) think it's great. Who's right and who's right then?

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by dusken And all of this has everything to do with immigration. well, race does, but not the rest of the cheap shots...

[dusken]

Originally posted by Darorinag well, race does, but not the rest of the cheap shots...

If you base immigration laws on the nationality of an applicant you do not need to worry about race and all of the fine lines.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by dusken If you base immigration laws on the nationality of an applicant you do not need to worry about race and all of the fine lines.
Race has a lot to do with it because they judge by the name and the looks of the person. So even if I have a Chinese passport, I would not be able to immigrate to Canada from China. But if you are an Indian who has British citzenship, you will have no problem getting in. I've spent some time on immigration mailing lists, and I've heard enough stories to know what I'm talking about. If it didn't have anything to do with race, why reserve quotas according to race? They divide it by countries, sure, but obviously, Asians are given priority in the quota system. And arguably, it's not all that related to country/population size. Why not Russia? The hierarchy of priorities is as follows: 1) Skilled chinese 2) unskilled chinese 3) skilled indian 4) unskilled indian 5) skilled Asians 5) unskilled Asians 5) skilled Persians 6) unskilled Persians 7) skilled somalis 8) unskilled somalis 9) skilled jamaicans 10) unskilled jamaicans 11) skilled Africans 12) unskilled Africans 12) skilled Europeans 13) unskilled Europeans.

It is prioritised by race if you note the clusters. Take a look at the data (top 10 source countries) I provided in previous pages of this thread.

[TigranJamharian]

holy xxxx i started reading and got to page 5 then i was like fcuk that. i pressed the reply button and here i am . wwwwwwwwwoooooooooohooooo. i dont know what went on for the last 4 pages and i dont plan to check. way too much bullsiht. now i gotta go finish an english paper so i can go to atlantic city with my godfathers friends tomorrow and spend the whole day there just chilling and then going to watch the fight. 10 russians vs. 10 Americans. rules like ultimate fighting. one of the "russians" is Armenians. plan to meet plenty of russians from my school there. oh yeah and im trying to quit smoking. lets see how it goes. if i can hold of for a week im sure i can keep it off.

[TigranJamharian]

oh and im an immigrant. in fact i just applied for social security today and i plan to get it in 2 weeks. plus i just accepted for the greencard in february. should be here anytime now. but id gladly give up my place in this damn country and switch with someone who wants to come here from Armenia. aright. my dog has diarhea. we have to take him to the vet. siht. aright goodnight

[dusken]

Originally posted by Darorinag Race has a lot to do with it because they judge by the name and the looks of the person. So even if I have a Chinese passport, I would not be able to immigrate to Canada from China. But if you are an Indian who has British citzenship, you will have no problem getting in. I've spent some time on immigration mailing lists, and I've heard enough stories to know what I'm talking about. If it didn't have anything to do with race, why reserve quotas according to race? They divide it by countries, sure, but obviously, Asians are given priority in the quota system. And arguably, it's not all that related to country/population size. Why not Russia? The hierarchy of priorities is as follows: 1) Skilled chinese 2) unskilled chinese 3) skilled indian 4) unskilled indian 5) skilled Asians 5) unskilled Asians 5) skilled Persians 6) unskilled Persians 7) skilled somalis 8) unskilled somalis 9) skilled jamaicans 10) unskilled jamaicans 11) skilled Africans 12) unskilled Africans 12) skilled Europeans 13) unskilled Europeans.

It is prioritised by race if you note the clusters. Take a look at the data (top 10 source countries) I provided in previous pages of this thread.

That paragraph was not necessary. If you base the immigration laws by nationality (a.k.a. citizenship) then the fine lines of race and culture do not matter. "Person 'A' is a citizen of India; we have let in too many Indians. Person 'B' is a citizen of Austria; we can let him/her in."

[Darorinag]

Immigration is about personal identity, not citizenship. A white person who has been in India for generations would not have the SAME chance to get his immigration accepted as the INDIAN does.

we have let in too many Indians.
Yes, too many Indians. Not "too many citizens of India", but "too many Indians", and that is exactly what they refer to by that - race, not what colour your passport is or what language it's written in.

An example of that, a lot of Armenians have been able to immigrate to USA from Syria, even following 9/11. Syrians (Arab) have been unable to, even CHRISTIAN Syrians.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Darorinag Yes, too many Indians. Not "too many citizens of India

You are making semantical arguements. By saying "too many Indians" I meant citizens of India and that was clear in my arguement. I say it is too bad if that person is white and is a citizen of India. That is his problem and not one for the country. Debating the fine lines of race and culture for the one guy, who I can safely say is a rarity, is ridiculous. You write as if allowing immigration is a legal obligation. Well it is not; it is, in a sense, charity.

[TigranJamharian]

they dont ask you what you identify yourself as. they just look at the citizenship. you think they have enough time to check up everyone background and see what race their mother and father are, whether they are documented as such....

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by TigranJamharian they dont ask you what you identify yourself as. they just look at the citizenship. you think they have enough time to check up everyone background and see what race their mother and father are, whether they are documented as such....
They ask what your race/ethnicity is.. in the application. makes it easier for them, doesn't it? certainly a time-saver.

I say it is too bad if that person is white and is a citizen of India. That is his problem and not one for the country.
oh wow... how about THAt for one-sided immigration.. this is what I'm talking about, folks. A non-Indian in India is treated that way, but an Indian in Canada is not, and if he is, it's horribly racist... If a White person goes to India and lives there, he's the "evil coloniser", but if the Indians come to Canada in HUGE numbers (i'm talking about hundreds of thousands), it's called immigration. How about THAT for irony?

Not all citizens of India are Indians. If you say "Indian" you are referring to the race/ethnicity, not the citizenship, just like you do in the case of Armenians.

[dusken]

Originally posted by Darorinag oh wow... how about THAt for one-sided immigration.. this is what I'm talking about, folks. A non-Indian in India is treated that way, but an Indian in Canada is not, and if he is, it's horribly racist... If a White person goes to India and lives there, he's the "evil coloniser", but if the Indians come to Canada in HUGE numbers (i'm talking about hundreds of thousands), it's called immigration. How about THAT for irony?

On the contrary, basing immigration on nationality is the opposite of racist because race is not considered. You threw in a bunch of stuff in there that is not actually adressing my point. For example, how a person is viewed in another country. If I am the United States, I do not care how native Indians view a resident German. If that German becomes a citizen of India and then tries to get a residency here he should be calculated statistically as Indian. Bottom line: there should be immigration quotas based on nationality, we throw out illegals when we can, and shoot the ones that try to get in illegally at the border. Everything will be neat and tidy.

Originally posted by Darorinag Not all citizens of India are Indians. If you say "Indian" you are referring to the race/ethnicity, not the citizenship, just like you do in the case of Armenians.

Like I said, it does not matter what you think it means. That is a matter of semantics and has nothing to do with my point so leave it out. It is a matter of context. If you keep making stupid arguments this is going to get boring even quicker than it is.

[Darorinag]

Like I said, it does not matter what you think it means. That is a matter of semantics and has nothing to do with my point so leave it out. It is a matter of context. If you keep making stupid arguments this is going to get boring even quicker than it is.
Address my point. Do you or do you not call all Armenians regardless of where they live Armenians? Do you call an Armenian living in the Netherlands, a Dutchman, for example? :rolleyes: There is a difference between Dutch as ethnicity and Dutch as nationality. Armenians are Armenians wherever they go. Germans are Germans wherever they go, because they carry their personal and cultural identity with them, along with their racial features. No matter how many years one has spent in India, one is NOT Indian, except on paper. Immigration addresses more than just papers. It is a value judgement, not just some paperwork. It is a judgement based on racial balance in the target country (i.e. USA or Canada). It does not matter if the German is Indian, he's not going to get in as an Indian citizen. If he's going to get in, he's going to get in because he is German. That is the truth. Your theory might be all nice and non-problematic, but I am talking about facts and reality here, it is not what is being practised. It's the same for university admissions, especially in the UK, they ask you what your racial background is. They have forms that you fill out to give you special treatment if you're a woman, or from a previously British colony, or a "visible minority," which is also avaiable here in Canada.

Racial affirmative action in immigration is certainly there. My stepdad's friend (who used to be a customs & immigration officer) knows the ins and outs of the immigration system and what takes place. I do not believe just anyone, but someone who has worked there and been an insider knows better than those who haven't. She can even (and I know this is not-so-legal, but then again, the immigration system is not fair anyway) shift your application to the top of the huge list......

[dusken]

Originally posted by Darorinag Address my point. Do you or do you not call all Armenians regardless of where they live Armenians? Do you call an Armenian living in the Netherlands, a Dutchman, for example? :rolleyes: There is a difference between Dutch as ethnicity and Dutch as nationality. Armenians are Armenians wherever they go. Germans are Germans wherever they go, because they carry their personal and cultural identity with them, along with their racial features. No matter how many years one has spent in India, one is NOT Indian, except on paper. Immigration addresses more than just papers. It is a value judgement, not just some paperwork. It is a judgement based on racial balance in the target country (i.e. USA or Canada). It does not matter if the German is Indian, he's not going to get in as an Indian citizen. If he's going to get in, he's going to get in because he is German. That is the truth. Your theory might be all nice and non-problematic, but I am talking about facts and reality here, it is not what is being practised. It's the same for university admissions, especially in the UK, they ask you what your racial background is. They have forms that you fill out to give you special treatment if you're a woman, or from a previously British colony, or a "visible minority," which is also avaiable here in Canada.

Racial affirmative action in immigration is certainly there. My stepdad's friend (who used to be a customs & immigration officer) knows the ins and outs of the immigration system and what takes place. I do not believe just anyone, but someone who has worked there and been an insider knows better than those who haven't. She can even (and I know this is not-so-legal, but then again, the immigration system is not fair anyway) shift your application to the top of the huge list......

First of all you should have said "e.g." instead of "i.e."

Those paragraphs were cute but you seem to be missing something: I am not talking about what is currently being practiced but what I feel could be practiced.

[Mikoyan]

how the fukk did we get 5 pages of this with me missing them all within a night...damnit

Anyway, who is the state to deny a human being of the right to a better life?

If you were in Iran, would you not want to move to a better country? Yes you would, and who is the government to stop you having a better life?

And dont talk to me about lack of jobs, because you as an IMMIGRANT who has EMIGRATED are STEALING Canadians jobs....

Look for stats on how many immigrants go abroad with diplomas in their hands. The vast vast majority. Now get your heaad out of your arse, fascist scum, there are 3,000,000 Armenian Diasporans from immigrants and your attacking them, and their rights to live a better life. Reactionary scum like you deserve a bashing

[Darorinag]

First of all you should have said "e.g." instead of "i.e."
What a cheap shot... I was referring to i.e. because I was using USA and Canada as my main examples.

I am not talking about what is currently being practiced but what I feel could be practiced.
We are talking about the RECENT (not FUTURE) influx of immigrants.

Anyway, who is the state to deny a human being of the right to a better life?
Hmm, why doesn't that apply to an Englishman wanting to live in Pakistan, for example? He'd be blown to pieces in less than a month of his stay, because he's the "scum coloniser." Whereas the same Pakis, when the time comes and it suits their needs, protest against immigration policies (despite the fact that a lot of Pakis are brought into Canada - not sure about USA)..... Of course, you're gonna say, what would you do in Pakistan? But your question is about "better life", and who are you to judge what "better life" means for me?

If you were in Iran, would you not want to move to a better country? Yes you would, and who is the government to stop you having a better life?
"Better life" depends on who's looking at it. My definition of better life might not be the same as your definition of better life. My definition of better life might be to go and live in Iran. Who is the government to stop me from having a better life then?

you as an IMMIGRANT who has EMIGRATED are STEALING Canadians jobs....
First of all, I am not an immigrant. That's your assumption #1. I am also not employed. That's your assumption #2. I also pay my tuition fees without receiving any government or university financial aid. That was your assumption #3. My tax money goes into the pockets of illegals on welfare. That was your assumption #4, that I benefit from tax money - I don't, never have, and probably never will.

Now get your heaad out of your arse, fascist scum, there are 3,000,000 Armenian Diasporans from immigrants and your attacking them, and their rights to live a better life. Reactionary scum like you deserve a bashing
I am not bashing all immigrants. I am bashing undeserving immigrants. When you're receiving benefits, you should give something in return. Nothing is free. There are rights and responsibilities/duties. If you can't fulfull your responsibilities, you can't expect to receive your rights.

Immigration is not a right. It is a privilege. So when demanding free immigration, you are not only demanding your rights without fulfilling your responsibilities, but you're also demanding privileges.

[Anonymouse]

I have an honest question.

Why is it that only in "white" countries in the West, better yet, why is it that Europe, North America, and Australia all embrace "immigration" and "diversity is our strength", but you don't see any other coutnry such as Korea, or Japan, for example rolling over this?

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Anonymouse I have an honest question.

Why is it that only in "white" countries in the West, better yet, why is it that Europe, North America, and Australia all embrace "immigration" and "diversity is our strength", but you don't see any other coutnry such as Korea, or Japan, for example rolling over this?
Yeah, Mousey, that's what I've been trying to get across.. Thanks for wording it so well. :)

[Mikoyan]

"Hmm, why doesn't that apply to an Englishman wanting to live in Pakistan, for example? He'd be blown to pieces in less than a month of his stay, because he's the "scum coloniser." Whereas the same Pakis, when the time comes and it suits their needs, protest against immigration policies (despite the fact that a lot of Pakis are brought into Canada - not sure about USA)..... Of course, you're gonna say, what would you do in Pakistan? But your question is about "better life", and who are you to judge what "better life" means for me?"

First off, dont start using racist terms ok? Or would you like me to refer to you as:
Bumboy
xxxxxx
Arsebandit
Fudgepacker
Gaylord

2nd, dont be a twat, Better life is level of
health
education
employment rights

all of which are better in UK, dont be a diluted philosophical twat, coz your not. Give me any parametres in which Pakistani life is better than UK. In anycase, nobody is stopping English going to pakistan now, as they are doing as well as india for high paid technical supervisory jobs.

""Better life" depends on who's looking at it. My definition of better life might not be the same as your definition of better life. My definition of better life might be to go and live in Iran. Who is the government to stop me from having a better life then?"

-Right very good, and if you believe Iran is better you should have the right to go

"First of all, I am not an immigrant. That's your assumption #1. I am also not employed. That's your assumption #2. I also pay my tuition fees without receiving any government or university financial aid. That was your assumption #3. My tax money goes into the pockets of illegals on welfare. That was your assumption #4, that I benefit from tax money - I don't, never have, and probably never will."

1st off, you ARE an immigrant as you moved from UK to Canada
2ndly your parents were immigrants for moving to UK in first place
I dont give a xxxx if you pay tuitiion fees
You tax doesnt go to illigal immigrants, due to nature of them being illigal and having no rights
YOU DONT EVEN PAY TAXES as you say you dont work, blatantly lying here to score points, how unreliable.
Have you ever been to doctors? Then you used up tax money, like a parasite of an immigrant you clearly are....[sarcasm by the way]
Grow the xxxx up, your not part of any superior race, your a little gobxxxxe kid.

Immigration should be a right, the right to live your life to the best, and no motherfukker should tell you know. The funny thing is governments encourage immigration for cheaper labour, hence why Britain goes to Jamaica to bring nurses, and why its pushing for eastern european EU intergration so cheap labour can come to birtain. Why does minimum wage not apply to polish workers who will come here in May? because the bosses want the wages down.

Now mr darorinag, put down that fascist rag, start reading some truth, and go into the real world and look at whats happening, idiot.

[Anonymouse]

Hahaha! That's a killer! Mikoyan says "start reading some truth", haha! Ahhh one man's "truth" is another mans "lie".

[Anonymouse]

Anyway, lets get this back on topic.

[Darorinag]

First off, dont start using racist terms ok? Or would you like me to refer to you as:
"racist" terms? Point out one I used.... I don't see any, especially in the part you quoted before you said this sentence...

1st off, you ARE an immigrant as you moved from UK to Canada
Who are YOU to tell me who I am? I am NOT an immigrant. I am an international student. NOTHING in my status of stay (whether on paper or in reality) indicates that I am an immigrant. Also, I am NOT arguing against ALL immigrants, only the ones who are not qualified to be under the "skillled" workers category. Who are they fooling? We all know they are not "skilled"!!!! So even if I WERE an immigrant, I know 5 languages, I know computer science, English literature, I will be having a university degree thanks to my NOT-immigrant MONEY, and note that my tuition is TWICE as high as the chinks who are illegally in the country... Having said that, I have done WAY better than they have, considering the opportuinities I've had (and note that those opportunities haven't been provided by the government either, but from my mom's pocket!!!)...

2ndly your parents were immigrants for moving to UK in first place
Idiot, don't tell me where my parents are from!!!! My dad was not an immigrant. I have more claim to English money and government assistance than the refugee pakis whom you love so much.

I dont give a xxxx if you pay tuitiion fees
Of course, being the communist that you are, you don't give a f*ck about MANY MANY things. I'm not surprised...

go into the real world and look at whats happening, idiot.
OK, let's see, shall we?

http://queerhye.delri.net/pakisbeatingkid.jpg
http://queerhye.delri.net/pakisbeatingkid1.jpg

You never did answer my question about Paki taxi circuits operating in England...

all of which are better in UK, dont be a diluted philosophical twat, coz your not. Give me any parametres in which Pakistani life is better than UK. In anycase, nobody is stopping English going to pakistan now, as they are doing as well as india for high paid technical supervisory jobs.
Idiot, there is no universal assessment of what "better life" means. Can't you see? It's just 2 words stuck together, and no 2 people agree with that!! Better life might for one person mean "more adventurous", while for another it might mean "living among pakis" while for others means "having a well-paying job." Yet another assumption, eh?

YOU DONT EVEN PAY TAXES as you say you dont work
Idiot, I pay taxes on everything. Even on the food I eat. I don't necessarily have to work to pay taxes. Not to mention, my mom pays taxes.

Have you ever been to doctors? Then you used up tax money
I am not covered under the provincial or federal health plans, since I am neither a refugee nor a citizen, nor an immigrant. I pay for insurance, and that covers my basic medical expenses...

like a parasite of an immigrant you clearly are.
Another assumption. Read above.

Right very good, and if you believe Iran is better you should have the right to go
Also, I am not ONLY talking about the "right" to go. I am talking about the residents' view of it. They are intolerant!!! That is what I am asking. Why is it that western/european nations must be tolerant and embrance "diversity", whereas none of that is happening in either Iran or Pakistan or India or Japan or China for that matter? This goes all the way back to Anonymouse's question, which neither you nor anyone else bothered to answer.

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag Who are YOU to tell me who I am? I am NOT an immigrant. I am an international student. NOTHING in my status of stay (whether on paper or in reality) indicates that I am an immigrant.

In other words, you are nothing but a drain on the resources of the country you are in. And what's even more sad is that you make it sound like you are proud of it as opposed to being an immigrant or a citizen :(

[Mikoyan]

Youve used the term paki and chink, equal in offense to nigger and spic.

Those photos you have used have been widely circulated among British Fascist Sites as "proof" that "pakis" are "dangerous".
Those pictures were taken from a tv program, where those whites were racists, and the asians defended and attacked the racists. Tell the board where u got those pics from.

fukk off.

on "better life" again you deem yourself a philosopher and fog the issue. you see your point is invalid and your cornered, im content with that.

Lets look at anonymouses question, then you can go back a few pages and answer my questions perhaps...

"Why is it that only in "white" countries in the West, better yet, why is it that Europe, North America, and Australia all embrace "immigration" and "diversity is our strength", but you don't see any other coutnry such as Korea, or Japan, for example rolling over this?"

Isnt it as simple as korea and japan dont have much diversity? therefore they dont make statements on the issue?

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Seapahn In other words, you are nothing but a drain on the resources of the country you are in. And what's even more sad is that you make it sound like you are proud of it as opposed to being an immigrant or a citizen :(
A drain on the resources? Excuse me, but I pay for what I get. On the contrary, I am a benefit to the country.

[Darorinag]

Isnt it as simple as korea and japan dont have much diversity? therefore they dont make statements on the issue?
now comes the question of: why don't they? :rolleyes:

fukk off.
yes, very academic discussion you got going there....

[Fadix]

Originally posted by Darorinag A drain on the resources? Excuse me, but I pay for what I get. On the contrary, I am a benefit to the country.

How? How are you benefiting the country Dan?

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Fadix How? How are you benefiting the country Dan?
I don't get money from the country in any way, either income or financial aid. But I do spend, don't I? On food, clothing, technology, books, education, insurance, etc. I pay for what I get. And I also benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

[Fadix]

Originally posted by Darorinag I don't get money from the country in any way, either income or financial aid. But I do spend, don't I? On food, clothing, technology, books, education, insurance, etc. I pay for what I get. And I also benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

What about the violent manifestations you participate in Dan? What about the cost of the police forces, the vendalism etc...? What about your views that are opposit to the Canadian values?

[Sip]

Originally posted by Darorinag I don't get money from the country in any way, either income or financial aid. But I do spend, don't I? On food, clothing, technology, books, education, insurance, etc. I pay for what I get. And I also benefit the economy. :rolleyes:

So where is the money coming from?

1) You are drain on another country
2) You somehow get the money from the country you are in ... if through legal means then you are effectively taking away those resources from the citizens of that country (i.e. jobs and if not you then your parent(s)).

Also, if you plan to stay there indefinitely, then you are not that different than an immigrant so spare us the "I am better" attitude. If you are going to leave, then you are basically a leech as the valuable seat space at the university you are in could have been put to much better use if an immigrant or a citizen of that country had used it.

In other words, a university seat serves the country much better in my opinion if it is occupied by a citizen of that country as opposed to an "international student" who by definition is going to get the hell out once he or she has reaped all the benefits of being in that position in that particular country.

[Darorinag]

Originally posted by Fadix What about the violent manifestations you participate in Dan? What about the cost of the police forces, the vendalism etc...? What about your views that are opposit to the Canadian values?
Cost to police forces? Don't worry. I pay them enough!!! They're there to do their job. I have done nothing illegal so far. It is their own "laws" that have urged them to arrest me, particularly about mental health and political correctness with regards to suicide. So they should not complain about it.

1) You are drain on another country
2) You somehow get the money from the country you are in ... if through legal means then you are effectively taking away those resources from the citizens of that country (i.e. jobs and if not you then your parent(s)).
Yes, everyone is a drain on A country, but what I am talking about is whether or not you're a drain on YOUR country or someone ELSE's country. I am English. I am therefore not draining anyone else's country by getting the money from there. My dad served for many years in the royal forces. I am entitled to the monetary "aid" from the government.

Also, if you plan to stay there indefinitely, then you are not that different than an immigrant so spare us the "I am better" attitude. If you are going to leave, then you are basically a leech as the valuable seat space at the university you are in could have been put to much better use if an immigrant or a citizen of that country had used it.
I don't plan to stay here indefinitely. I plan to leave the country as soon as I am done. Moreover, keep in mind that the preference to admission was already given to domestic students (including immigrants!), and only after all the domestic "eligible" students were admitted did they take a look at my application, by way of priority. I did not buy my way in. I was more qualified than the remaining people. But the fact that you think that university admission should be about race (but of course, in your own pro-black, pro-chinese, pro-immigrant way only) and not individual ability is enough to give your hypocrisy away...

In other words, a university seat serves the country much better in my opinion if it is occupied by a citizen of that country as opposed to an "international student" who by definition is going to get the hell out once he or she has reaped all the benefits of being in that position in that particular country.
EXACTLY. But, THIS is where my criticism of their immigration policies comes in!!! My immigration application was recently denied...... Instead, when I look around on immigration lists, indians who know no English and don't have any experience or arranged jobs or even qualifications were sent acceptance letters THREE months after they sent in the application. It usually takes 1 year... whereas mine took 1.5 years... Of course, a country that doesn't know what's best for itself, admits international students, and rejects their immigration application despite the fact that they know 5 languages, have more skills than the average chinese or pakistani, then it deserves the leeching...

and well, to be honest, it deserves the leeching done onto itself by the chinese illegals on welfare too!!!

Idiocy has become a skill canadians have mastered!!!

so when Mr. Julian "black gangs are under control" Fantino (aka Metro Toronto Police chief) gives his next speech about gangs and violence, and how 17 year old army reservist Konstantin Kocherga was killed by black gangsters in front of the school just outside where I live, he might as well praise the multicultural country we live in, which has evidently (!!!) been SO beneficial to the citizens of the country!!!! Diversity is our "strength"!!! Hail, hail!!

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Darorinag But the fact that you think that university admission should be about race (but of course, in your own pro-black, pro-chinese, pro-immigrant way only) and not individual ability is enough to give your hypocrisy away...

He didn't say it should be about race. He said it should be about Canadian citizenship. A citizen of the country should have priority over a non-citizen. Race should not play in.

EXACTLY. But, THIS is where my criticism of their immigration policies comes in!!! My immigration application was recently denied...... Instead, when I look around on immigration lists, indians who know no English and don't have any experience or arranged jobs or even qualifications were sent acceptance letters THREE months after they sent in the application. It usually takes 1 year... whereas mine took 1.5 years... Of course, a country that doesn't know what's best for itself, admits international students, and rejects their immigration application despite the fact that they know 5 languages, have more skills than the average chinese or pakistani, then it deserves the leeching...

This is exactly why race should not be considered, and neither should nationality. The only thing that should be considered is what benefit a potential immigrant can bring to a country. You seem like a relatively smart dude, you're going to a university, getting a degree, you should be allowed. It shouldn't make any difference if you're British, Indian, Chinese, or Martian. If you're qualified, you should be allowed in.

[Darorinag]

He didn't say it should be about race. He said it should be about Canadian citizenship. A citizen of the country should have priority over a non-citizen. Race should not play in.
Yes, and I said that citizens and immigrants DO get priority over international students.

This is exactly why race should not be considered, and neither should nationality. The only thing that should be considered is what benefit a potential immigrant can bring to a country. You seem like a relatively smart dude, you're going to a university, getting a degree, you should be allowed. It shouldn't make any difference if you're British, Indian, Chinese, or Martian. If you're qualified, you should be allowed in.
Who SHOULD be allowed and not allowed is, in the end, the decision of the government. What I am talking about is not their policies, but the lies with which they cover up the fact that they bring A LOT (I'm not saying all immigrants are unskilled) of unskilled people who end up being a burden on the government and draining the tax money of decent and responsible workers whose presence is beneficial to the country. I am talking about multicultural propaganda that covers up the failings of the current immigration system that lets in a lot of unskilled people and keeps out a lot of skilled, hard-working, grateful people (and there are lots of them, whether they are chinese, indian, black, white, european, you name it...). The reason I am "dissing" immigration is that it is NOT immigration anymore. As humanitarian as Canada or USA might sound, [we] want to benefit from the newcomers, just as the newcomers want to benefit from the opportunities given them. We don't want violence due to unemployment which is due to the lack of skills which enable one to get a job. And this goes all the way back to immigration policies. Who should be blamed for violence? The government, that's right. And not for being unable to put a bandage on the wound, but for causing that wound in the first place. God knows, that recently settled guy who got into drugs, gangs, firearms, would've had a better life in his own country. Who are we fooling? Ourselves? Our people? The immigrants who have no skills to survive in their new "home"?

Of course, I could go on calling immigration policies racist, but that is not the point here. The point I am trying to make goes beyond race, yet it comes back to race only because immigration policy-makers chose it to be so (racial quotas, etc.). The point I am trying to make addresses skill level. I am not talking about "family class immigration" (as that would require sponsors, and if there are sponsors, chances are the newcomers will be able to get on with their lives - and you gotta give credit to a lot of the chinese immigrants who settle in Toronto that way, and attend universities or colleges to get accredited diplomas and add to their skills or learn new ones). I am talking about the "skilled worker class" immigration. I am talking about something that should be as scientific and obvious as possible, following a points system (here in Canada). If you know English, you get a certain number of points, if you know French, you get a certain number of points, if you know both, you get the maximum number of points in that category. If you know neither of the two, you get no points. Yet how such a system manages to bring in SO many unskilled workers under the "skilled worker" category while hundreds of SKILLED workers every day receive rejection letters from Immigration Canada, is beyond me. THAT is what I am talking about. I am talking about the recent so-called "anti-racist" claims to justify bringing the poor, unskilled, unable-to-survive people into the country. And it's not fair for the skilled people both those who are trying to immigrate and those who are already in the country (tax money, welfare, poverty), and it's also not fair to the immigrants who are unable to survive!

What the reasons behind those policies and the cover-ups of its hypocrisies and failures is not something I can comment on, as I am in the dark about that issue, although I could speculate about its sources and agendas. But I will not go there.

Immigration for skilled people. We are not a shelter for poor people. We have paid a price for what we have now. We should not give it up for the sake of political correctness. If it would make us racist to stop non-skilled immigration, so be it. But our conscience will be clean. And it will be fair. And I am using "we" here because I believe I am talking from a very humanitarian and universal perspective rather than a racist one. And I hope that this post will not be labelled as racist as well.

Peace.

[loseyourname]

Dan, that may be the first post you've made to this thread that didn't sound terribly racist. You've finally addressed the real problem: the fact that the US and Canada are being flooded with unskilled, unintelligent people, regardless of where they come from and of their racial origin. I agree with you 100%. Immigration policies need a terrible overhaul; both race and nationality should be completely taken out of the equation. The only thing considered should be benefit to the country. This includes intelligence, job skills, demonstrated tenacity of some sort, and some willingness to assimilate, at least to learn the language and embrace some amount of national vision.

[Darorinag]

And hence the ABSOLUTE need to STOP the quota system, because it's racist and unfair at best. It's like saying "I don't care how qualified you are, but if your country's quota has been reached, then you're out of luck".... :(

If the "quota system by country" is not put an end to, I am afraid USA, Canada, and all countries that are open to immigration will disintegrate into nations of absolute reliance on welfare, violence ("the stronger person survives", everyone is "on his own" and everyone is "out to get you"), which will also result in utter chaos, maybe not now, but in another 20 years, this will be reality.

As for me, I am disappointed with the entire immigration process. I will not try again. In the meantime, you guys will need to do some lobbying to change the situation, for the sake of everyone living in your country. I am glad to hear that there are people out there who think realistically and still believe in the existence of conccepts such as "skill" and "knowledge" and "experience", and not label it as racist or supremacist. As I said before, I am not against skilled workers from China coming to Canada. Ditto for India or anywhere else in the world.

It is ironic how those who plan those immigration policies and quotas use supposedly "anti-racist" propaganda to justify the quotas that are in fact racist.

Yes, I am bitter. And for a good reason. Any skilled worker who has been rejected immigrant status would know what I am talking about, especially when what should've been his place is stolen by someone who neither knows English/French nor has any skills that would enable him to survive.

Immigration, as I said, is a privilege given by the government (land claims are beyond the scope of this argument - but being realistic, it's THIS government that rules today, and it is THIS government that has the power to decide who should stay and who should leave.) Deserve it.

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by Darorinag It is ironic how those who plan those immigration policies and quotas use supposedly "anti-racist" propaganda to justify the quotas that are in fact racist.

Amen Dan.