The Future of Armenia and Armenians

[Anonymouse]

I know this is something done before, but I wanted to re-cap this in light of the current trends in Armenia, and abroad in the Diaspora. As we all know Armenia has been suffering one of the worst population declines, due to a low birth-rate, and emigration, since there is no chance of life in Armenia, due to government idiocy, and criminality. Anyone can go to the basic news site and read up on the current trends.

http://www.armenpress.am/eng/news/news.htm

It does not take a math wizard to project the population implosion into the distant future, and see that the future doesn't bode too well for Armenia, nor its people. As Armenia is more and more depleted of its population, the people find haven abroad in the diaspora, where they have a better chance at life. The Diaspora is said to be a good thing, and all, because of all the opportunies. Unfortunately, like all things, there are good sides and bad sides. The good side is evident: A chance to prosper, educate thyself, be able to get rewards for your input of work and studying, etc. The bad side is obviously the cultural disintegration. More and more Armenians will assimilate, and this isn't meant to somehow get "mad" at them or anything. It is simply the inevitable process of historical forces.

Solutions are thrown out from every corner, such as Armenians emigrating back to Armenia from the Diaspora, but how many will seriously move back? It is evident that to many Armenians the seriousness of a culture asunder is not obvious. Either they have not been versed on the matter, or they simply do not care. The new Armenian generation in my age range and below is really a horrible ignorant and stupid bunch, especially here in L.A. from the very unique "I'm unique because I go to clubs and I have a v-tech engine" xxxos to the thuggish "I wanna be black" fools. In each case, it is a bunch of stupid apathetic morons who know nothing of their heritage, their language, nor what the simple geopolitical situations are in the world around them. Is this what it has come to?

There was this supposed dream of a Armenia from sea to sea. Ironically, it was another Young Turk dream of Talaat and Enver to have a Pan-Turkic state spanning from sea to sea, and it appears that is where it is headed, in a cold, and calculated yet bold historical process. Perhaps Armenians lived for far too long. Either way, it is a wounded body, with the knife stuck in its back, breathing and gasping its last breaths, as it slowly dies by the wound. I'm told I am pessimisstic. But what's being pessimisstic when one simply projects the current trends into the distant future? There is no pessimism, just reality getting closer and closer.

In 100-200 years the Armenians in the Diaspora will be assimilated, and this is no surprise, and only the process of the centrifugal forces of history. No one is to blame for the inevitable processes of history. Nor do many Armenians care nowadays, and what is the point? Who cares? As long as most of us can live for the self-seeking gratification of what we vaguely term 'happiness' as long as we have a good paying job and enjoy our life in the Diaspora, a culture is in the midst of disappearing. Like the former Armenian communities in Eastern Europe, and the Crimea, the current ones in the Diaspora will eventually subside, as the wind unleashes its forces unto the dim flickering light of whatever is left from the cultural candle. Perhaps there is nothing Armenians could do. Perhaps this is simply the forces of history acting, as they have always acted. Perhaps it is simply destiny and the rise and fall of civilizations. Perhaps the reason I am bothered by this is because I can feel its effects personally, since I have personally felt the touch of this culture, as I'm a part of it. It remains, what lies ahead, nothing can prepare us for.

[TigranJamharian]

You are quite pessimistic. I write this as I am waiting for my parents to get ready to go to St. Sarkis Armenian Church over in Douglaston. And the fact that most of the people that go to this church are from the diaspora and that most of them speak, read and write Armenian and go to the church and have a strong Armenian community here after almost 90 years in the US shows me that assimilation is not as big of a problem as you make it out to be. Dont worry about it, it will all be good, these kids will sooner or later realize what it is to be Armenian and there will be a backlash from the way they are now as long as they have families that have a strong culture.

Anyway Happy Easter guys.

[Anonymouse]

What you speak is obvious. Hypothetically speaking that 20% "keep their culture" but the other 80% "die out" doesn't mean much better. Numbers are everything in this, and Armenians lack it.

[dusken]

I wish I disagreed with you, Anonymouse. Unfortunately, I too, have the same fears. I see around me always Armenians that embrace non-Armenian cultural things and dillude themselves into thinking that it is in some way Armenian because other Armenians are accepting them. How do you educate so many people as to the dire situation the culture is now in? And with such a disgusting government body, I cannot blame people for leaving. I wish that there was some sort of plan. Some way to not only educate the diaspora but to improve the political situation in the motherland in order that the education may be of some purpose. The purpose being, of course, to repopulate a beautiful dying country and igniting a flame of culture within Armenians all over the globe.

[dstyle]

Well we as a people have been known to basically assimilate into other cultures, coutnries, peoples whatever you want to call it. There was a study I read that stated that about 2000 years ago there were more Armenians then Chinese, thats crazy. I know its not that relevent, but I found it very intersting.

[loleeg]

:crying:
all of this makes me feel sad

[Inna]

Anon you worry too much. It is important that we remember who we are and where we come from, but are things really as bad as you say they are? I understand how a lot of younger kids who were born in the US feel the need to be more American, but when they get older they will go searching for their true identity and they will find the Armenian in them. Maybe I dont see what you see from the many Armenians in LA, but from my own experience people can accept and recognize the identity that gave them birth (Armenia) and still live a life as an American citizen, in a nation that gave, me personally, hope and a future.

[sSsflamesSs]

Anon you worry too much. It is important that we remember who we are and where we come from, but are things really as bad as you say they are? I understand how a lot of younger kids who were born in the US feel the need to be more American, but when they get older they will go searching for their true identity and they will find the Armenian in them. Maybe I dont see what you see from the many Armenians in LA, but from my own experience people can accept and recognize the identity that gave them birth (Armenia) and still live a life as an American citizen, in a nation that gave, me personally, hope and a future.

Inna, I used to be as naive as you sound when I lived in South Dakota (which is just as bad as NC when it comes to lack of Armenians). All that changed when I moved to California and witnessed the deterioration of our beautiful culture that is so apparent here.

[Inna]

Inna, I used to be as naive as you sound when I lived in South Dakota (which is just as bad as NC when it comes to lack of Armenians). All that changed when I moved to California and witnessed the deterioration of our beautiful culture that is so apparent here.

yes..maybe I view this the way I do simply because I've lived in NC most of my life...but I too have accepted an "American" lifestyle in some ways or another, does that mean I am a lost hope? There is good and bad in every culture, maybe Cali was unfortuante to have more bad Armenians then the rest of US.

[sSsflamesSs]

There is good and bad in every culture, maybe Cali was unfortuante to have more bad Armenians then the rest of US.

Perhaps, but the rules of entropy predict otherwise.

[sleuth]

Perhaps, but the rules of entropy predict otherwise.


degradation of our nation...that hurts

[TigranJamharian]

The only degredation of our nation that i see is that right now the Armenian nation is at a turning point and our nation is in turmoil and people would rather talk about the shawshank redemption or "the only thing that counts is your post count" rather than try to follow what is going on in their nation and express their ideas about it.

I mean i come here after reading the latest news about police attacking demonstrators, hoping to find some other people that might actually give a xxxx and have some sort of a discussion and sharing of ideas about what is going on but to no avail.

[dusken]

...people would rather talk about the shawshank redemption or "the only thing that counts is your post count" rather than try to follow what is going on in their nation and express their ideas about it.


This has been the worst post all week. Have your mommy and daddy spank the pus out of you, kid.

[TigranJamharian]

oh yeah you are sooooo clever dusken.
woohoo look at me my name is dusken, i am original, i think out of the box. i am so intelectual. im your god, i post a weird picture as my avatar every other day and i can come up with catchy rebuffs like have your mommy and daddy spank the pus out of you.

congragulations sir. now get a life.

[dusken]

Congratulations! You are so original in using the "you are so original" response. You get a life and stop the self-importance nonsense.

[xBaron Dants]

Let's settle down people. You don't need to agree, but let's keep it civil.

As for my own opinion, Tigran's frustration is very understandable, and I happen to share it too. It IS quite frustrating when all these things are happening in Armenia and the Diaspora in general does not really seem to care...

[dusken]

Discussing other things does not mean one does not care. That is absurd and immature.

[TigranJamharian]

I am not saying you shouldnt be discussing other things. All I am saying is that i am frustrated that Armenians on this forum can be so oblivious to what is going on.

Maybe go and reread the post

[dusken]

I think you should reread the post. There will always be people that care about politics and those who do not. And there will always be people who may care but feel they cannot participate. Be frustrated at that if you must but watch where you point your finger.

[TigranJamharian]

You people are discussing the degredation of Armenian youth, and I feel when people do not care about the welfare of Armenia and what is going on over there right now that is a degredation of the youth. And it is not politics. It is fraudulant elections and it is violations of people's constitutional rights. I am sure if it was something with Bush and topics like this people would be flying off their seats trying to put in their views, but when something is going on in dear old Armenia ...

[Anonymouse]

The only degredation of our nation that i see is that right now the Armenian nation is at a turning point and our nation is in turmoil and people would rather talk about the shawshank redemption or "the only thing that counts is your post count" rather than try to follow what is going on in their nation and express their ideas about it.

I mean i come here after reading the latest news about police attacking demonstrators, hoping to find some other people that might actually give a xxxx and have some sort of a discussion and sharing of ideas about what is going on but to no avail.

Hey, listen nerfbrain if you do not know what you're talking about don't bother posting. The forum is a place for many topics and if you can't fathom that, then leave. No one asked you to like it, but don't whine. If I didn't care I wouldn't be here posting this topic for you to ruin the thread.

As for the rest of you, you seem oblivious to the reality of the situation, such as Tigran or Inna. You seem to think as if its "a okay", clinging to that abused excuse "we have survived for thousands of years". Please, let's drop such silly nonsense. The fact is you cannot compare the past to the present, because they are totally different times and circumstances. No time in the history of the Armenian people have they been as spread out and thin, as now in this time. Before stating your opinions it would be wise to know a little about statistics, demographics, some basic history, some ethnography, some economics, and how demographic changes mean more than they are meant to mean.

[Anonymouse]

You people are discussing the degredation of Armenian youth, and I feel when people do not care about the welfare of Armenia and what is going on over there right now that is a degredation of the youth. And it is not politics. It is fraudulant elections and it is violations of people's constitutional rights. I am sure if it was something with Bush and topics like this people would be flying off their seats trying to put in their views, but when something is going on in dear old Armenia ...

You're ruining the thread, please stop whining. We are discussing the overall condition of Armenians as a people, and for an "optimist" you're whining sure is contradictory. I as a "pessimist" am not as frustrated as you. Now gather yourself together and contribute something intelligent.

[TigranJamharian]

Explain how this is ruining the thread? what gets you so hostile. When in fact what i am writing is right on track and is exactly the degredation of our society. Id rather have half the Armenians in the world not able to read or write Armenian rather than have half of them not give a xxxx about the Armenian state.

Sit here talking about your inconsequential bullxxxx about whether or not in a hundred more years there will be as many literate Armenians in the world, when right under your damn eyes Armenia is in revolution and people are being beaten in the streets and journalists camera's smashed and mr schnazzy guy sits here insulting me because i give a damn and because he seems to thnk that what he is talking about is more important.

Well F uck you too!
im seriously pissed at people like you

[Anonymouse]

Oh no, the nerfbrain is getting frustrated even more. To be honest, I don't like you much either, and it's because of your ignorance. You keep whining, yet yourself are not educating yourself. You remain in the dark hole. I can't remember where there was one solid piece of argument you brought that had some gist of reality and evidence to it, aside from your emotional appeal to your ignorance.

[Darorinag]

The only degredation of our nation that i see is that right now the Armenian nation is at a turning point and our nation is in turmoil and people would rather talk about the shawshank redemption or "the only thing that counts is your post count" rather than try to follow what is going on in their nation and express their ideas about it.

I mean i come here after reading the latest news about police attacking demonstrators, hoping to find some other people that might actually give a xxxx and have some sort of a discussion and sharing of ideas about what is going on but to no avail.
Hey Tigran, have you checked out the Armenian cafe?

The reason I don't post much about the situation in Armenia is that:

1) I haven't been there as an adult.
2) I don't know much about the political situation.

So I leave it to those who know about it to post. I do participate if I have something to say. There's nothing to be angry about, Tigran. A lot of people are not interested in politics and aren't up-to-date with what's going on in Armenia. Don't blame them for it. I don't think following the politics of one's own nation should be a necessity for all Armenians.

[TigranJamharian]

yes please continue posting the same crap you have been saying since i signed on to this damn forum and continue ignoring what i write. you simply like to say what you say and then simply disregard everyone else and come back with some unconnected crap while trying to make it look like you actually responded. if you have nothing to say and cannot prove me wrong then you simply decide you can go around it by calling me stupid and unneducated and my arguments senseless. you resort to insulting people by calling them things like nerfbrain. i think you demonstrated perfectly what kind of a person you are and i wont label you. let everyone else form their own opinions. au revoir little mouse.

[Darorinag]

You people are discussing the degredation of Armenian youth, and I feel when people do not care about the welfare of Armenia and what is going on over there right now that is a degredation of the youth. And it is not politics. It is fraudulant elections and it is violations of people's constitutional rights. I am sure if it was something with Bush and topics like this people would be flying off their seats trying to put in their views, but when something is going on in dear old Armenia ...
Tigran, I think this thread was dealing with the diasporan youth rather than the situation in Armenia.

And Baron, what you said about the diaspora not seeming to care about what's going on in Armenia, the opposite would also be true, no?

Besides, Tigran, just because there seem to be problems in Armenia doesn't mean one should only talk about that and not talk about world politics at all.

[TigranJamharian]

Tigran, I think this thread was dealing with the diasporan youth rather than the situation in Armenia.

And Baron, what you said about the diaspora not seeming to care about what's going on in Armenia, the opposite would also be true, no?

Besides, Tigran, just because there seem to be problems in Armenia doesn't mean one should only talk about that and not talk about world politics at all.

yes it was. and i am trying to say that the diasporan youth does not seem to be concerned with the situation in Armenia.

people in Armenia have more worries than to care about the diaspora. besides, what can they do. they have no money over there and are struggling to survive and make Armenia a better place. what can they do by caring about the diaspora? would you like someone from Armenia to sponsor you or something and get a little card every month with a picture of you and a messege you write them? cmon man.

i never said we should only talk about that. all i said was we should talk about that. it seems weird when we all call ourselves Armenians but Armenia's affairs do not concern us. yes feel free to talk about world politics i love to talk about world politics myself it is interesting. but anytime there is a post in the politics thread about current events in Armenia it seems that the only people posting and responding are baron, me and occasionally dstyle.

[Darorinag]

people in Armenia have more worries than to care about the diaspora. besides, what can they do. they have no money over there and are struggling to survive and make Armenia a better place. what can they do by caring about the diaspora? would you like someone from Armenia to sponsor you or something and get a little card every month with a picture of you and a messege you write them? cmon man.
OK, you have a point there, but the diaspora IMO is the source of hope for Armenia, and we can't help them if OUR situation is as bad as was mentioned (in USA, especially in Cali, where most Armenians are).

i never said we should only talk about that. all i said was we should talk about that. it seems weird when we all call ourselves Armenians but Armenia's affairs do not concern us. yes feel free to talk about world politics i love to talk about world politics myself it is interesting. but anytime there is a post in the politics thread about current events it seems that the only people posting and responding are baron, me and occasionally dstyle.
Well, like I said, not everyone is interested in politics and not everyone is up to date with Armenian politics particularly because there aren't as many news sources from Armenia as there are for world politics. In order to take part in such a discussion, I would need to catch up on lots of background. Anyway, I agree that Armenian politics is not talked about on this forum much and that is one aspect that needs improvement, but I don't see why there is a problem in this thread. :confused:

[xBaron Dants]

Well, this thread seems to be the perfect example as to why the Armenian diaspora is doomed. Here we are, the only people who care enough to actually join a forum where we can talk with other Armenians...and even among us, we resort to petty name-calling and nagging and whining.

The reason why we are doomed is because our priorities are screwed up, if not non-existant. The "elite" of our community find it their number one priority to open a new arachnortaran, as the other one is related to the "other" Armenians. Our school principals and "hokapartsoo"s seem to be more pre-occupied with whatever stupid prestige they have, instead of the future generation of Armenians, and our goosagtsagan leaders also seem more pre-occupied with their endless atorakriv, and the amounts of money they can accumulate, and how many politicians' hands they can shake.

In all of this, the education and preparation of our future generations are almost forgotten, and seem to exist only in order to justify the actions of our adenabeds and hokapartsoos and gomidés. No real effort is put in it, and the kids grow sick of it, which inevitably leads to a detachment from "Armenianness", and from Armenia. It is NOT the fault of the "armo thugs" and "armo pimps" and "armo pimpettes". It is the fault of the generation that preceded them that found it a lot easier to put them in front of MTV 24/7, instead of sharing the culture that was past on to them.

The point that Tigran was trying to raise, or at least what I gathered from it, is that we are indeed doomed as even on a day where such ugly events took place in the streets of Yerevan in our very own land, at the hands of our very "own" government...not too many people seem to care. For those of you posting in this thread, it was not (once again, in my opinion) meant to be an insult, as the very fact that you read his opinions in the forum entitled "Armenian politics" shows that you care. Although in general, I see no use in even trying to disprove the fact that today's youth is oblivious towards what is happening in Armenia...and this is not a result, as Dan said, of a lack of sources. I don't buy that argument. I can name you at least 10 armenian news sites off the top of my head right now. And even if somebody doesn't know the websites by heart, it's not really that hard to go on google or yahoo and search "armenian news".

Dan, what can I say? Armenians in Armenia are in no situation to offer us any assistance, and we don't really need any assistance. But trust me, they DO care. Many told me that they were afraid that all those Armenians in LA and Canada, yevayln, risk losing their identity, and they should all move back as we are all brothers and sisters, yevayln.

It is also very true that diasporans disregard the state of the Diaspora at times. The education of arevmdahayeren, our educational institutions (such as Melkonyan) are disregarded. I attribute that to the lack of priorities which I mentioned above. However, strengthening Armenia UNDOUBTEDLY stregthens the Diaspora. Armenia should be a sort of headquarters for the entire Armenian Diaspora, the roots that will eventually nurture the branches.

Yet here we are, in one of our more serious conversations on a topic of utmost significance, calling each other nerfbrains and idiots. I guess I'm supposed to delete most of the posts in this thread, but the senseless babbling is just too relevant to the topic of our potential disappearance.

Pardon me if my thoughts aren't too clear. I am not in the best of moods right now.

[Darorinag]

The reason why we are doomed is because our priorities are screwed up, if not non-existant. The "elite" of our community find it their number one priority to open a new arachnortaran, as the other one is related to the "other" Armenians. Our school principals and "hokapartsoo"s seem to be more pre-occupied with whatever stupid prestige they have, instead of the future generation of Armenians, and our goosagtsagan leaders also seem more pre-occupied with their endless atorakriv, and the amounts of money they can accumulate, and how many politicians' hands they can shake.
Exactly.

and this is not a result, as Dan said, of a lack of sources. I don't buy that argument. I can name you at least 10 armenian news sites off the top of my head right now.
Hey Baron, I was just making a comparison. fact is, the ratio of Armenian news sources compared to world politics sources is 1:1000 if not more. But of course, anyone who is interested in the situation would find a news source, that is not a valid excuse, you're right. but it is a fact that it's easier to look at world politics than Armenian politics. again, that is not an excuse, because we as Armenians should be more concerned with Armenian politics than world politics. But heck, i've tried to look at some Armenian news websites before, and some of them are slowwwwww, the ones based in Armenia anyway. yes yes, I am guilty of being more into the holocaust discussions, etc., but I am trying to build on that and learn more about the Armenian genocide. My main interests do not lie in politics, although I do want to know what's going on in Armenia.

Dan, what can I say? Armenians in Armenia are in no situation to offer us any assistance, and we don't really need any assistance. But trust me, they DO care. Many told me that they were afraid that all those Armenians in LA and Canada, yevayln, risk losing their identity, and they should all move back as we are all brothers and sisters, yevayln.
No, Baron, I'm not talking about any form of material/physical assistance.. but maybe moral/emotional assistance is beyond their ability too. I don't know. My apologies for making that assumption then.

But I must add - aren't those in Armenia contributing to the disappearance of Armenians (in the diaspora)? I'm referring to the hundreds (if not thousands) of Armenians who immigrate to L.A. every year... From what I was told, is it safe to assume that it is not the arevmedahyes that are predominantly destroying our culture in the diaspora, but the immigrant arevelahyes? Just take a look at Lebanon. Armenians have kept their culture, language, everything in Lebanon, despite Arab influence and despite Muslim pressures. Ditto more or less for Toronto Armenians (although not comparable to Lebanese Armenians). The reason I'm saying this is because the majority of Toronto Armenians are arevmedahyes. A lot of the L.A. Armenians are arevelahyes, and I think the main problem in the diaspora is in L.A. Correct?

I must say that I blame the diasporans as much as I blame the newcomers from Armenia who add to the diaspora in numbers and who work against it eventually.

[Anonymouse]

Baron you hit the nail on the head, however, this thread and the example of Tigran whining shouldn't be somehow broadened to include the whole Armenian status just because two argue. Everyone argues in every people. This is silly. If only Tigran would be a little less emotional, a little more cordial, and himself a little more educated while demanding others of the same thing. That is all. As far as you deleting them, I leave that up to your discretion.

[xBaron Dants]

Baron you hit the nail on the head, however, this thread and the example of Tigran whining shouldn't be somehow broadened to include the whole Armenian status just because two argue. Everyone argues in every people. This is silly. If only Tigran would be a little less emotional, a little more cordial, and himself a little more educated while demanding others of the same thing. That is all. As far as you deleting them, I leave that up to your discretion.

Of course everyone argues in every people. I just found it ironic that silly arguments are largely responsible for the danger our diaspora is in today, and even the conversation about the danger our diaspora is in today resulted into silly arguments.

As for Tigran, his initial post did not contain any insults. He raised a point (which I found to be very valid), and it escalated from there. If emotions are high today, it is very understandable. I'm having a hard time keeping myself from going crazy over what happened last night in Yerevan.

[dstyle]

I can see why Tigran is frustrated, but I think the average poster on the site cares more than the average Armenian youth living in the diaspora today. It is sad that every Armenian (not only youth) does not care about there people or there nation, but it should be our job as "concerned" youth to have them care. I hope that made sense because I didn't get any sleep last night, and I think I'm starting to get dillusional. :eek:

[HyeJinx1984]

I love Southern California because it's sort of considered the toliet of the Armenian Diaspora and happens to be where I was born and raised. We're just thugs and rabiz criminals out here with no love for our traditions and morals. However even out here were most Armenians see a sad state of things, I gotta say, we're more prideful and defensive about our people than those in the "high class."

[leo007]

I love Southern California because it's sort of considered the toliet of the Armenian Diaspora and happens to be where I was born and raised. We're just thugs and rabiz criminals out here with no love for our traditions and morals. However even out here were most Armenians see a sad state of things, I gotta say, we're more prideful and defensive about our people than those in the "high class."

I gotta say that I really haven't seen too much pride shown by Armenians in Southern California. There were a lot of people out on April 24th showing the cared what happened to Armenians, but for the most part a lot of Armenians couldn't care less. For example, I said to one guy that I was going to be marching in Little Armenia and he thought I was joking and wouldn't beleive me until he finally realized I wasn't joking at all. His reply was "it's just a waste of time". That's just one example, there were many, many more that didn't care at all.
Not only that, but the a good amount of Armenians here don't care about each other and just like to stereotype "other" types of Armenians.

The one thing that really pisses me off is when Armenian parents speak English with their kids. It's the most annoying thing. If the parents of these kids don't even reinforce speaking the Armenian language with their kids, then who the hell will?

[HyeJinx1984]

I knew about the march also and didn't go because it's my belief that protests are usually bullxxxx and no one pays attention. I didn't see the protest being shown on CNN or even local news that day. I'm going out there in the hot ass wheather to do what? show other Armenians that I know about the Genocide? Come on... being proud is not the same thing as demonstrating. I hate Bush and the current american administration with a passion but I've never been a rally on a set day.. instead I TALK to people EVERY day about my beliefs (granted, if it's appropriate to talk about it at that time) and the same goes for being Armenian and all that comes with it amd I've probably educated more non Armenians on the subject than any Rally will.

As for stereotyping, don't even get me started... we as a people are the most stereotyping mutha f*ckas out there, and we all know it's not just Cali Armenians playing the "Barskahav" game. Check out the joke about the pots in hell... and I hate reffering to it as a joke since it's more of a wake up call and that we should be changing and evolving as a people. Hayastansis hating baskahyes, hating bairuitsis, hating bagdadis, hating every other goddamn nationality out there. It's not a Cali thing, that's just an Armo thing.

And since we're on the topic of the stereo typing, I'm waiting for the "return to Armenia" movement so when we all get there we won't be stereotyping based on country anymore, it'll be by city... all the Glendale Armenians will be on one side of Yerevan, all the Pasadena Armenians will be on one side, all the Hollywood armos will be on another... that's gonna be funny.

[leo007]

I knew about the march also and didn't go because it's my belief that protests are usually bullxxxx and no one pays attention. I didn't see the protest being shown on CNN or even local news that day. I'm going out there in the hot ass wheather to do what? show other Armenians that I know about the Genocide? Come on... being proud is not the same thing as demonstrating. I hate Bush and the current american administration with a passion but I've never been a rally on a set day.. instead I TALK to people EVERY day about my beliefs (granted, if it's appropriate to talk about it at that time) and the same goes for being Armenian and all that comes with it amd I've probably educated more non Armenians on the subject than any Rally will.



I understand why some people would not want to go to a demonstration, but I also feel that demonstrations are important. Those who don't know about the genocide start getting curious and asking why all these people are protesting. When asked, they are told about the genocide and that educates a good amount of these non-Armenians that would not know of the genocide otherwise. At the very least it shows that Armenians haven't forgotton and are willing to go out and protest. If they didn't do anything, what would that achieve?
And the people I was talking about in the previous post didn't care about the genocide at all, that's what got me pissed. They are not the ones that would educate other people about the genocide if given a chance. Not only do they not care about the genocide, they don't care about anything else that has anything to do with Armenians, they just want to live their own lives and dont' care about culture, traditions, etc....

[HyeJinx1984]

And the people I was talking about in the previous post didn't care about the genocide at all, that's what got me pissed. They are not the ones that would educate other people about the genocide if given a chance. Not only do they not care about the genocide, they don't care about anything else that has anything to do with Armenians, they just want to live their own lives and dont' care about culture, traditions, etc....

Yea, f*ck them. Those people certainly don't represent the majority of California Armenians.

[Crimson Glow]

At the very least it shows that Armenians haven't forgotton and are willing to go out and protest. If they didn't do anything, what would that achieve?

The same thing demonstrating would achieve? Seriously, I have to agree with Hyejinx. I'm not saying don't care about it, but the only thing we're doing is demonstrating to other Armenians that we know of the genocide. That isn't exactly doing much for the cause, either. I'd much rather take Hyejinx's approach of being on the lookout for opportunities to educate people who aren't aware 365 days a year.

Where I live, NO one has heard of Armenians, and I mean NO one! You guys in South Cali wouldn't understand what it's like. I've NEVER heard another person outside my family speak Armenian, or talk about them as a people. It's amazing I know as much of the language as I do. I can't read or write it (though I still remember the alphabet, don't ask me how), and there are some words I see mentioned on the forum that I don't understand, but in general, I don't think I'd have trouble conversing with someone in Armenian. At times, I feel disappointed and sad that I don't know more, but at other times, I think about where I live, and am amazed I can speak it at all. I can probably count on one hand (thanks to my 6 fingers) the number of Armenians I've come across in this general region, and other than the family that just opened Raffi's Restaurant, NON of them could speak it.

It's sort of hard to educate people on the genocide when they haven't even heard of the victims of said genocide. Typical conversation when people learn my name:

"What nationality is that?"
"Armenian"
"Romanian??" - after a momentary pause, thinking they didn't hear you right.
"No, Armenian"
"Albanian?" - after another pause.
"NO, ARMENIAN, YOU CULTURALLY ILLITERATE xxxx!"

This is very common throughout the US. Not very many places in America have the type of Armenian community that you guys in Cali have. That being said, I've educated a LOT of people on Armenians, as well as the genocide. There isn't much I can do here on April 24th other than wear my Armenian flag pin on my "We Will Never Forgive, We Will Never Forget" t-shirt my grandma in Glendale sent me long ago. That gets quite a few people's curiosity going. My boss at the job I've been at for 8 years has learned quite a bit from me. He was shocked to learn that we were the first Christian nation (as he is extremely religious), and of what the Turks did to us. He cracks me up when he comes up to me with stories of who he used his knowledge on. Like when he got in some debate about how great Turkey is (I forget the reason why) with his father-in-law, who is a big politics buff, and my Boss drilled into him the story of what they did. "What about the fact that......" He said the dad just stammered and didn't know what to say because he wasn't aware of it. Or when, this last Christmas season, he was at church asking the Pastor something about January 6th (my memory isn't serving me well at this moment), and the Pastor wasn't sure of the answer, and started mumbling something about "the epiphany". My boss goes "Oh, is that why Armenians celebrate Christmas on that day"? (he already knew the answer, but wanted to grill the Pastor for not knowing more about the original Christian nation). The Pastor goes "uuhhh, ummm, yyeeaahh...."

And then I have had countless friends who have taken more and more interest in the culture. One buddy is always e-mailing me various Armenian related things that he finds on the net, like "Useful Armenian Swear Words". He even called this place in Chicago called Hye Bar, trying to find out if it's Armenian. Unfortunately, the word hye apparently means "head of beer" to the Irish. :laugh: And he did some search from his work place for my last name, and called me later that day to say "Did you know there are only 3 families in America with your name? One in California (that would be my Grandma), one in Connecticut (have no idea who that is), and then you guys in Illinois. You better get on it if you plan on keeping the name alive, son!" Yeah, he's psycho like that.

Well, looking back on all this, I'd say I've done more by spreading the word on an everyday basis, then a protest in a region where what you're protesting about is pretty well known already.

More on this when I get back....

[HyeJinx1984]

I got so much to say, but nothing to say cause you said it all so great in that post. I'm actually flying to Illanois tomorrow morning, what part to you live in? Maybe I can swing by and talk to you in Armenian if you'd like =P

[leo007]

The same thing demonstrating would achieve? Seriously, I have to agree with Hyejinx. I'm not saying don't care about it, but the only thing we're doing is demonstrating to other Armenians that we know of the genocide. That isn't exactly doing much for the cause, either. I'd much rather take Hyejinx's approach of being on the lookout for opportunities to educate people who aren't aware 365 days a year.

Why not do both? There isn't anything wrong with your (or Hyejinx's approach), but if you're not really doing anything on April 24th, what would be so bad about going to the demonstration? IMO, demonstrating actually does get people curious and they ask about what's going on and they're informed about it.








Well, looking back on all this, I'd say I've done more by spreading the word on an everyday basis, then a protest in a region where what you're protesting about is pretty well known already.

More on this when I get back....

Even though it is well known, at the very least it shows other people that it's something Armenians care deeply about and that they're persistent about it.


By the way, what city in Illinois do you live in?

[Crimson Glow]

I didn't mean to make my last post come off as me protesting protesting .... or....antitesting.... :confused: I was in a hurry to end it, too, so it came off a bit odd. I just didn't understand the anger towards those that choose not to demonstrate. And if we REALLY want to make a difference, perhaps we should protest the genocide everyday, and not just on the anniversary of the day it began. You know....like people sitting outside the embassy in droves, endlessly. It could be done in shifts, or whatever, as long as there were plenty of us in front of the building at all times. If I were an "odar", showing up once a year wouldn't make me think you have a dieing devotion to the cause.

I got so much to say, but nothing to say cause you said it all so great in that post. I'm actually flying to Illanois tomorrow morning, what part to you live in? Maybe I can swing by and talk to you in Armenian if you'd like =P

I'm in a far SW suburb of Chicago (thus the reason I responded to your post about Armenian communities in Chicago). I have no idea how my Armenian would sound to another. I mean, I have no problem understanding the majority of what I read, and I understood just about everything in Ararat (what I didn't know, I could make out by the context it was being used in). But I don't know, it would a lot different in person. So yeah, I'd feel pretty akward, but...eh...what the hell. :wave:

[sSsflamesSs]

Where I live, NO one has heard of Armenians, and I mean NO one! You guys in South Cali wouldn't understand what it's like. I've NEVER heard another person outside my family speak Armenian, or talk about them as a people. It's amazing I know as much of the language as I do. I can't read or write it (though I still remember the alphabet, don't ask me how), and there are some words I see mentioned on the forum that I don't understand, but in general, I don't think I'd have trouble conversing with someone in Armenian. At times, I feel disappointed and sad that I don't know more, but at other times, I think about where I live, and am amazed I can speak it at all. I can probably count on one hand (thanks to my 6 fingers) the number of Armenians I've come across in this general region, and other than the family that just opened Raffi's Restaurant, NON of them could speak it.

It's sort of hard to educate people on the genocide when they haven't even heard of the victims of said genocide. Typical conversation when people learn my name:

"What nationality is that?"
"Armenian"
"Romanian??" - after a momentary pause, thinking they didn't hear you right.
"No, Armenian"
"Albanian?" - after another pause.
"NO, ARMENIAN, YOU CULTURALLY ILLITERATE xxxx!"

Actually Crimson, I DO understand...a little too well :laugh: . As I've mentioned before on this forum, I lived in South Dakota for 8 years prior to moving to Southern California the summer before college. And let me tell you, that xxxxhole (aka SD) has got to be so much worse than IL, since these morons are not aware of ANYTHING outside of state borders, let alone Armenia. So yes, I got a nice chuckle out of your post (especially the dialogue). Akh, the memories. :laugh:

[HyeJinx1984]

Actually Crimson, I DO understand...a little too well :laugh: . As I've mentioned before on this forum, I lived in South Dakota for 8 years prior to moving to Southern California the summer before college. And let me tell you, that xxxxhole (aka SD) has got to be so much worse than IL, since these morons are not aware of ANYTHING outside of state borders, let alone Armenia. So yes, I got a nice chuckle out of your post (especially the dialogue). Akh, the memories. :laugh:

Since you now live in So Cal, I gotta ask.. you agree with the majority of Armenians that Cali armenians are some of the worst around? I hope not, lol

[sSsflamesSs]

Since you now live in So Cal, I gotta ask.. you agree with the majority of Armenians that Cali armenians are some of the worst around? I hope not, lol

I'm sorry to disappoint you :( . Perhaps I haven't met the decent ones yet (well a few, but not too many). After all, it's ONLY been three years.

Seriously though, America DOES things to you - very very bad things. I reckon I've changed a bit too. :(

[HyeJinx1984]

*smacks forhead* D'oh!

[Tres Bien]

Here are arent many armenians around. Wich i think is think is quite sad.!!
here we dont have the same problem as you seem to have in cali. there isnt any gangs or rabiz jerks giving us a bad repuation,(asdvats ani ajbeesi mna). if some of my friends or classmates knows where armenia is, or knows anything about the country or region, its because of me :DIts one thing that cannot be avoided if your friends talk al lot of politics, or in school, right!?

[HyeJinx1984]

I got it... System of a Down! They're nice Armenians who are from L.A.

[Anonymouse]

Here are arent many armenians around. Wich i think is think is quite sad.!!
here we dont have the same problem as you seem to have in cali. there isnt any gangs or rabiz jerks giving us a bad repuation,(asdvats ani ajbeesi mna). if some of my friends or classmates knows where armenia is, or knows anything about the country or region, its because of me :DIts one thing that cannot be avoided if your friends talk al lot of politics, or in school, right!?

Agreed .

[Anonymouse]

Ttt .