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Hemshin peoples

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  • #1

    Hemshin peoples

    Hemshin were Armenian in origin,but over the centuries they have evolved into a distinctive ethnic group in their own right.


    Origins
    According to Ghevont (Leontius the Priest), the Armenian princes Hamam and Shapuh Amatuni, who lost their domains in Artaz to the Arabs, moved to the Byzantine Empire in the 8th century with 12,000 of their people. They settled in the town of Tambut in the mountains and it was eventually renamed Hamamashen, which evolved to Hamshen.

    What do u think of them,they have the right to call them selfs Armenians even if some of them have Muslim faith after are these centures,i can see them in future holding dual armenian-turkish passports,even so it give more political power over turks and prove that armenian spirit has not died in turkey.
    Maybe they give 12 points to armenia in eurovizion
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  • #2
    Re: Hemshin peoples

    If they have any Armenian blood in them they can call themselves Armenian
    Positive vibes, positive taught

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Hemshin peoples

      Originally posted by UrMistake View Post
      Hemshin were Armenian in origin,but over the centuries they have evolved into a distinctive ethnic group in their own right.


      Origins
      According to Ghevont (Leontius the Priest), the Armenian princes Hamam and Shapuh Amatuni, who lost their domains in Artaz to the Arabs, moved to the Byzantine Empire in the 8th century with 12,000 of their people. They settled in the town of Tambut in the mountains and it was eventually renamed Hamamashen, which evolved to Hamshen.

      What do u think of them,they have the right to call them selfs Armenians even if some of them have Muslim faith after are these centures,i can see them in future holding dual armenian-turkish passports,even so it give more political power over turks and prove that armenian spirit has not died in turkey.
      Maybe they give 12 points to armenia in eurovizion
      Can Armenians in Beirut call themselves Armenian? Can Armenians in America?

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Hemshin peoples

        Why they can't?Sure they can.Cristian Hemshin that belongs to armenian apostolic church call them selfs Armenians.Some are brainwashed and dont like called like that.
        I hope some day our Goverment gives them chance to come in armenia or be regnorized as Armenians it will be great step,im totaly agree also azeris that dont like there goverment come and leave in Armenia cause they find it more safe place to live beside we are not barbarians,we know how to live with others and respect there culture,we never hated others beside the 1 that mean harm to Armenia and yeat see kurds we give them there first scools and rights in our country.
        That means that we are civilized nation compered only with european nations.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Hemshin peoples

          Ok UrMistake, you already answered your own question.
          Positive vibes, positive taught

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Hemshin peoples

            Originally posted by PepsiAddict View Post
            If they have any Armenian blood in them they can call themselves Armenian
            I disagree, we live in a world where nation-states are the supreme avatar of a people. Under this model, any entity outside of the geographic vicinity of a nation is not part of the nation nor the people of that respective nation, rather, you may have Armenian ancestry, but you stop being Armenian after a certain away from your home nation. Furthermore, what about the Non-Armenian blood in that person? How can you ignore that? You are assuming that "If they have any Armenian blood in them they can call themselves Armenian", well why only limit this to the Armenian portion because by your definition we can assume that a person with xyz blood is also xyz? How does that work? Please elaborate how you can push forward the national interests when you are split between a amalgam of loyalties? You can not and clearly, this contradicts the very definition of nationalism. I am not going to argue this any further and will keep it simple, you are away
            from Armenia, you are not Armenian regardless if you have "100% blood" or have no Armenian blood, but are social constructed to be Armenian, either way, you are not Armenian, but rather have Armenian ancestry. I find this definition simple, to the point, and should be what Armenian people (In fact, all people) in a age of nationalism and nation-states should embrace.

            As for the Hemshin peoples, I don't consider them Armenian, at least the muslim Hemshin. Christianity, irrespective of which branch you have chosen to worship, constitutes a vast portion of the Armenian identity. Furthermore, most of the Hemshin are more Turkish than Armenian, in fact, most don't even like identifying themselves as Armenians, rather, they refer to themselves as Turks.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Hemshin peoples

              Originally posted by Virgil View Post
              I disagree, we live in a world where nation-states are the supreme avatar of a people. Under this model, any entity outside of the geographic vicinity of a nation is not part of the nation nor the people of that respective nation, rather, you may have Armenian ancestry, but you stop being Armenian after a certain away from your home nation.
              Correct.

              Furthermore, what about the Non-Armenian blood in that person? How can you ignore that? You are assuming that "If they have any Armenian blood in them they can call themselves Armenian", well why only limit this to the Armenian portion because by your definition we can assume that a person with xyz blood is also xyz? How does that work? Please elaborate how you can push forward the national interests when you are split between a amalgam of loyalties?
              The problem with this argument is that you are viewing a person's ethnicity in a vacuum; i.e. outside of the parental/social influences. For example a "half"-Armenian (in reality there is no such thing as full, half, quarter, etc. only someone who is an Armenian) may have been raised to value his Armenian more than his other half due to parental influences. The half-Armenian might feel a certain connection to his Armenian side because of this, and because usually the connection to the "Old Country" is usually a lot more recent than someone who's, let's say, Irish, English, Scottish, etc.

              There might also be a sense of mystery about his Armenian side: what is Armenia? What is its history? What is its language? What is its script? What has been the influence of Soviet culture on Armenia? For someone growing up in America (Monte Melkonian, for example) Armenia is most likely still a "foreign" place for them that still needs a lot of uncovering. It is foreign, and yet it is home at the same time. This is not a sign that someone is not connected to Armenia, just a sign of the influence America has had on them. It is not bad that Armenia may be something "mysterious" for them, in fact it may lead them to become a better nationalist in my opinion...

              The "half" Armenian might also feel a sense of duty to bring back their family line and name to their rightful homeland. Armenia belongs to all Armenians, not just "purebreds" (this is a fantasical idea, as well. There is no such thing as someone who is truly "purebred" in the scientific meaning of the word...) The "half" Armenian might feel they have to protect their brethern from what befell their grandparents and great grandparents: the turks (and fake azeris).

              You are right in saying that our identities are socially constructed, but I believe that is only part of the equation. We have free will. We might not be considered "real" Armenians by Hayastantsis, but who cares? Why is it so much better to be a Hayastanci than an "akhpar"? It doesn't make a difference in the end because the end result is the same: furthering Armenia.

              If the half-Armenian is dedicated to improving the homeland through their skills and/or chosen profession, and this "half" Armenian marries a "full" Armenian etc. etc., there is no reason to say that this "half" Armenian is not Armenian. It would be illogical to do so; they are improving the homeland. That is more than you can say for probably 90% of Armenians.

              I, personally, have learned to disregard what people say about me as an Armenian over the past year; it's not their fault they are so prejudiced. One day someone talks to me and tells me I'm too white to be Armenian, the next they ask me if I'm from Hayastan. Either way I don't care; I know I am trying my best I can right now to serve the homeland through what I am able to give to agencies such as FAR and through what I will study in college (Russian and something else to bolster this, maybe business). The end goal being serving the Hayrenik through a charity or a business that would offer inexpensive, reliable goods and services to the community as well as jobs.

              However, I know people will say I'm not "Armenian enough". I don't care. Wasn't Karekin Njteh (I'm not sure) who said an Armenian "is someone who is willing to serve his homeland, with the realization that he may not instantly be recognized or even be damned for his efforts"?

              As you know, the Bible says, "those who love their life in this world will lose it, and those who hate their life in this world will keep it".

              You can not and clearly, this contradicts the very definition of nationalism. I am not going to argue this any further and will keep it simple, you are away
              from Armenia, you are not Armenian regardless if you have "100% blood" or have no Armenian blood, but are social constructed to be Armenian, either way, you are not Armenian, but rather have Armenian ancestry. I find this definition simple, to the point, and should be what Armenian people (In fact, all people) in a age of nationalism and nation-states should embrace.
              Monte Melkonian was raised in a very traditional American way. Does this make him not Armenian? Or does the mere fact that he had 100% Armenian blood make him Armenian? If the answer's the latter, I would ask you to please reconsider; that would be very shallow.

              As for the Hemshin peoples, I don't consider them Armenian, at least the muslim Hemshin. Christianity, irrespective of which branch you have chosen to worship, constitutes a vast portion of the Armenian identity. Furthermore, most of the Hemshin are more Turkish than Armenian, in fact, most don't even like identifying themselves as Armenians, rather, they refer to themselves as Turks.
              They do nothing for Armenia except offer a couple of good lessons in sociology, history, linguistics, etc. etc.
              Last edited by yerazhishda; 01-01-2009, 03:24 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Hemshin peoples

                I can see yeraz has looked into and thought a lot about this. Part of the motivation is obviously situational. I encourage what you've done yeraz, I look up to your example, abris.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Hemshin peoples

                  There may be up to 2 million crypto-Armenians in turkey, which includes the Hemshen, so if occupied Western Armenia comes under Armenian rule again, this will partially solve the question of settling people there, as many of the inhabitants already are of Armenian origin.


                  As to you Yeraz, I say apres as well in your love and dedication to Armenia, I wish more Armenians were like you in that respect.
                  For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                  to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                  http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Hemshin peoples

                    Guys, They are our people now. Most of Hemsins fleed russia because of their religion. I am sure you will not love them with their religion.

                    Armanen You should increase, Motivation of your women for resettling. It would be realy difficult to find that 2 million people.

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