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Hemshin peoples

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  • #51
    Re: Hemshin peoples

    Traditional houses in Elevit. People live on the upper floor, the lower floor was for the cows (but few families keep cows anymore).
    Attached Files
    Plenipotentiary meow!

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    • #52
      Re: Hemshin peoples

      People return from the cities with money to spend. A modern house in Elevit, but built in the traditional style. And two in an ugly modern style. And two more still being constructed.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by bell-the-cat; 08-26-2010, 01:48 PM.
      Plenipotentiary meow!

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      • #53
        Re: Hemshin peoples

        Two old women in Elevit, wearing traditional clothing.
        Attached Files
        Plenipotentiary meow!

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        • #54
          Re: Hemshin peoples

          The "We Don't Have It" shop. It becomes less amusing when you realise it should also say "And if we do have it, don't buy it because it will be rubbish and double the usual price".
          Attached Files
          Plenipotentiary meow!

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          • #55
            Re: Hemshin peoples

            We are live in 21th century,we use electric this is normal.... And you are right some people wildly to nature,forest and yayla....But I live in Ayder.... Have you never come to Ayder ? And I was talked about Ayder ... But if you want see a barbaric yayla ,I won't help to you... Sorry yes you said trues....

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            • #56
              Re: Hemshin peoples

              Photo1---My grandma,when she came back her home before she work in her "bostan"(garden)She wear tradinational dress...

              Photo2---Fresh Bean in Bostan

              Photo3---We are save part of historical "Pughar"
              Attached Files
              Last edited by masumane; 08-29-2010, 09:06 AM.

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              • #57
                Re: Hemshin peoples

                Comment


                • #58
                  Re: Hemshin peoples

                  I am a Hamshentsi Hye, and really quite surprised about all this controversy. Well, my father is from Vana Dzor (Kirovakan). We spoke our dialect of Armenian, the school we attended taught Armenian as our mother tongue (that is what the class was called, mother tongue). The other subjects were also taught in Armenian. We have a hate for turks as much as any other Armenian, if not more. Anyone that asks me where I am from I tell them I am Armenian (to avoid a unnecessary complex discussion), any Armenian that asks me I tell them I am a Hamshen Hye. But apart from a few odd looks when they realize our language is a bit different, most are happy to meet another Armenian in this world.
                  Last edited by arteom; 09-20-2010, 10:47 AM.

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                  • #59
                    Re: Hemshin peoples

                    I like to see it this way:

                    Armenian

                    A) Anatolian/Western
                    A1) Constantiople Dialect
                    A1a) American Influence
                    A1b) Beirut/Arabic Influence
                    A1c) Istanbul/Turkish Influence
                    A1d) Kurdish Influence (crypto-Armenians)

                    A2) Hemshin Dialect
                    A2a) Turkish & Laz Influence
                    A2b) Diaspora Influence


                    B) Caucasis/Eastern
                    B1) Yerevan Dialect
                    B1a) Russian Influence
                    B1b) Georgian Influence
                    B1c) Turkish Influence

                    B2) Karabakh Dialect
                    B2a) Russian Influence
                    B2b) Turkish Influence
                    B2c) Persian Influence

                    B3) Persian Dialect (Parskahay)

                    Anyone who can associate themselves to one of these is an ethnic Armenian, regardless of their nationality. A chinese man in America doesn't make him "American" but an "American Chinese." Where this fails is when people equate the concepts of nation and ethnicity. The nation of Armenians in Turkey is Turkish, but their ethnicity is Armenian. The moment they no longer consider their Armenianness important, we call this "assimilated." After a generation, assimilated people lose their ethnic identity and become part of the ethnic group in which they assimilated.

                    Hemshin Armenians are either assimilated or not. Those who are not are associated to a sub-group of an Armenian stock, much like Eastern and Western Armenian. Consider it this way: French, Spanish and Italian are all Romance peoples. Or Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzistan are all Turkic peoples. Russians, Serbians, FYR Macodonians are all Slavic. And us, we're all "Armenic" peoples. The ancient Armenian nation has spawned three sub-Armenian groups of peoples. However, unlike the Romance or Turkic peoples, we're constantly trying to tie each other together and re-unify our peoples. That's the way I see it.

                    Originally posted by Virgil View Post
                    I disagree, we live in a world where nation-states are the supreme avatar of a people. Under this model, any entity outside of the geographic vicinity of a nation is not part of the nation nor the people of that respective nation, rather, you may have Armenian ancestry, but you stop being Armenian after a certain away from your home nation.

                    .....

                    As for the Hemshin peoples, I don't consider them Armenian, at least the muslim Hemshin. Christianity, irrespective of which branch you have chosen to worship, constitutes a vast portion of the Armenian identity. Furthermore, most of the Hemshin are more Turkish than Armenian, in fact, most don't even like identifying themselves as Armenians, rather, they refer to themselves as Turks.

                    I completely disagree with you.

                    The concept of a modern nation is more like an organization, or job, you belong to. It doesn't (shouldn't) affect your ethnic identity.

                    Say, I compare "nation" with "job." You work for Sony. This will affect your work values, and the manner in which you do things. Say everything made by sony uses the C++ programming language on the Windows Operating System (OS), they are the official programming language and OS used by the company. Therefore, being part of the company, you are forced to learn and use them as well, but you might use an entirely different language and OS at home or in your personal life, and make entirely different things than you do in the company. If your friend works for Apple, he will do things differently. You may both hate each other because your companies are direct competitors, and you think the culture of your company is better than his. However, neither of this changes you as a person, and your own personal preferences, until you opt for your company's style and adopt it as your own personal style (assimilation). It's a far-fetched example, but that's the analogy I use to differentiate nation from ethnicity. In a republic, we're part of an organized structure of a lifestyle, and there is an official language set to make communication with everyone else in the republic easy. You don't have to use it when you don't need to. I'm part of the American nation, and have adopted American culture as a generic culture I wear in public, but in my personal life, I am an Armenian and among other Armenians or people who understand my personal views, I wear my Armenian culture. Therefore, the nation of Hamshen Armenians in Turkey is "Turkish." But as long as they are aware of their own personal values and culture, they are ethnic Hamshen Armenians.

                    However, a nation shouldn't force its members to assimilate. It should have laws set to allow people to live their lives the way they want to. This is difficult in Turkey, because they have a degenerated, backward "Turkey for Turks" ideology* engraved in the heads of all citizens of Turkey, and certain laws take away the freedom and comfort of ethnic minorities. Minorities feel not-at-home in their native lands, and Turks feel like they have all the power in their hands.

                    Officially, Turkey uses the definition of "Turk" as a national label rather than an ethnic one, but this is contradicted by the law that "forbids insulting Turkishness." If Turkey was a democratic republic that tried to build a society where everyone is equal and that tried to give a comfortable lifestyle to all of its members, they would alter that law based on the "Turkey-for-turks" ideology and instead make a law that "forbids insulting the ethnic identity of any other people(s)" and that doesn't protect only one of the ethnic groups in the society: Turks. Why is it that a Laz could go to jail for insulting a Turk's "Turkishness," but a Turk gets no such punishment if he insults his "Lazness"? Or why shouldn't an ethnic Laz go to jail for insulting "Kurdishness" or "Armenianness"?? How is that being a fair, democratic society? If any citizen of Turkey is a Turk, regardless of ethnicity, why is it that the moment a politician with 1/4th ethnic Armenian or Kurdish blood appears, he is quickly criticized and treated like he doesn't belong there? If "Turk" meant a citizen of Turkey, then its president would be able to say, "I am an ethnic Armenian, and as a proud member of this society, I am the president of Turkey" if it were the case. Ethnicity shouldn't be taken into consideration in the organization of a society, much like a man who knows how to use C++ shouldn't be fired from Sony simply because in he personally prefers to use Python at home. (this C++ thing is just an example... I don't know what programming language Sony electronics are programmed in).

                    *so does Armenia for Armenians, but Armenia is a young republic with its power crippled. Turkey is a lot richer, and advanced than Armenia. A country of Turkey's caliber shouldn't be so backward.
                    Last edited by SevSpitak; 09-25-2010, 12:40 AM.

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                    • #60
                      Re: Hemshin peoples



                      Turkish Government arrests Hamshen Armenians

                      Times.am, Armenia
                      June 5 2011


                      Turkish Government arrests Hamshen Armenians
                      By Times.am at 5 June, 2011, 11:33 pm

                      Turkish Government has started an operation against those Hamshen
                      Armenians and lazes in Hopa city, who met Turkish Prime Minister Recep
                      Tayyip Erdogan with protest action on May 31. Turkish policemen used
                      water-canons, tear gas and traumatic guns against the protestors.
                      According to the witnesses, Erdogan's body-guards shot with combat
                      guns as well and caused death of a former teacher, Metin Lokumchu. The
                      protestors hit Erdogan's bus with stones in their turn and wounded one
                      of the body guards.

                      As Times.am reporter was informed, Turkish police has arrested more
                      than 40 Hamshenis and lazes (Ali Aksu, Ibrahim Aksu, Shinasi
                      Hyumyushkaya, Idris Akbiyik, Shaphak Ustabash, Onder Oner and so on).
                      The arrests took place both in Hopa and in Turkish capital. According
                      to Times.am sources, official Ankara keeps arrested Hamshen
                      intellectuals and there is no matter whether they have taken part in
                      the protest against Erdogan or not.

                      The arrests in places with Hamshen population are going on now as
                      well. Part of Hamshen activists is escaped and the other part
                      continues protests and claims to stop the attacks against Hamshen
                      Armenians and lazes.

                      /Times.am/
                      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

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