Hemshin peoples

[Haykakan]

Re: Hemshin peoples

WHAT CHARLES AZNAVOUR PROPOSED SERZH SARGSYAN

Radio Liberty informs that Charles Aznavour told Sargsyan during his
working visit to Paris that Armenia must readmit Armenians who were
converted to Islam. The singer and ambassador of Armenia to Switzerland
had earlier dwelled on this matter in an interview with a European
periodical, noting that he talked to the Armenian government a few
years ago but there is no progress yet.

This is an interesting matter that Charles Aznavour brings up. There
are approximately 1 million Muslim Armenians all over the world. It
is not known how many of them want to move to Armenia. However,
apparently, there is a big wish if Charles Aznavour raises this issue
publicly and with the Armenian government.

This is a sensitive issue, especially now that the government is
trying to use the Armenian apostolic Church as a criterion of Armenian
identity. Does the Armenian government consider Mulsim Armenians to
be Armenians? Coming to the office of the president in 2008, Serzh
Sargsyan dwelled on this in one of his foreign speeches, announcing
that Muslim Armenians are equally our compatriots.

On these days, however, Serzh Sargsyan has been in a difficult
situation, under internal pressure after March 1 and strong external
pressure and has been trying to counteract with records of being
broadminded. Now Serzh Sargsyan's goals are even more narrow, and
the issue of Muslim Armenians is pushed behind.

However, Charles Aznavour made a reminder. In addition, his reminder
came along the Synod of Bishops which made decisions on universal
decisions on uniformity in baptism and beatifying. Most probably,
these decisions have not impressed the great singer, and he therefore
proposes not to ignore in the context of the importance of beatifying
the victims of the genocide the Armenians who have also been affected
by the genocide but are alive and need the special attitude of Armenia.

Does Armenia need them? There is no answer to this question at
the government's and public levels. This issue is not important,
whereas in the world that is undergoing change it is hard to tell
when the Republic of Armenia will have to dwell on the issue of
Muslim Armenians, either recognize them or reject them. However,
it will certainly have to. Aznavour proposes thinking about this at
the state and public levels and get ready to assume responsibility,
not denunciation.

Hakob Badalyan 12:38 03/10/2013 Story from Lragir.am News:

http://www.lragir.am/index/eng/0/comments/view/31014

[UrMistake]

Re: Hemshin peoples

Im going to georgia this summer with bus , hope in my short trip meet with hemshins sincne i pass from there territory !
btw thanks to all for the contribution to the topic :-)

[londontsi]

Re: Hemshin peoples

http://xecutrix.usc.edu/news/msg376928.html

Turkish Government arrests Hamshen Armenians

Times.am, Armenia
June 5 2011


Turkish Government arrests Hamshen Armenians
By Times.am at 5 June, 2011, 11:33 pm

Turkish Government has started an operation against those Hamshen
Armenians and lazes in Hopa city, who met Turkish Prime Minister Recep
Tayyip Erdogan with protest action on May 31. Turkish policemen used
water-canons, tear gas and traumatic guns against the protestors.
According to the witnesses, Erdogan's body-guards shot with combat
guns as well and caused death of a former teacher, Metin Lokumchu. The
protestors hit Erdogan's bus with stones in their turn and wounded one
of the body guards.

As Times.am reporter was informed, Turkish police has arrested more
than 40 Hamshenis and lazes (Ali Aksu, Ibrahim Aksu, Shinasi
Hyumyushkaya, Idris Akbiyik, Shaphak Ustabash, Onder Oner and so on).
The arrests took place both in Hopa and in Turkish capital. According
to Times.am sources, official Ankara keeps arrested Hamshen
intellectuals and there is no matter whether they have taken part in
the protest against Erdogan or not.

The arrests in places with Hamshen population are going on now as
well. Part of Hamshen activists is escaped and the other part
continues protests and claims to stop the attacks against Hamshen
Armenians and lazes.

/Times.am/

[SevSpitak]

Re: Hemshin peoples

I like to see it this way:

Armenian

A) Anatolian/Western
A1) Constantiople Dialect
A1a) American Influence
A1b) Beirut/Arabic Influence
A1c) Istanbul/Turkish Influence
A1d) Kurdish Influence (crypto-Armenians)

A2) Hemshin Dialect
A2a) Turkish & Laz Influence
A2b) Diaspora Influence


B) Caucasis/Eastern
B1) Yerevan Dialect
B1a) Russian Influence
B1b) Georgian Influence
B1c) Turkish Influence

B2) Karabakh Dialect
B2a) Russian Influence
B2b) Turkish Influence
B2c) Persian Influence

B3) Persian Dialect (Parskahay)

Anyone who can associate themselves to one of these is an ethnic Armenian, regardless of their nationality. A chinese man in America doesn't make him "American" but an "American Chinese." Where this fails is when people equate the concepts of nation and ethnicity. The nation of Armenians in Turkey is Turkish, but their ethnicity is Armenian. The moment they no longer consider their Armenianness important, we call this "assimilated." After a generation, assimilated people lose their ethnic identity and become part of the ethnic group in which they assimilated.

Hemshin Armenians are either assimilated or not. Those who are not are associated to a sub-group of an Armenian stock, much like Eastern and Western Armenian. Consider it this way: French, Spanish and Italian are all Romance peoples. Or Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzistan are all Turkic peoples. Russians, Serbians, FYR Macodonians are all Slavic. And us, we're all "Armenic" peoples. The ancient Armenian nation has spawned three sub-Armenian groups of peoples. However, unlike the Romance or Turkic peoples, we're constantly trying to tie each other together and re-unify our peoples. That's the way I see it.

I disagree, we live in a world where nation-states are the supreme avatar of a people. Under this model, any entity outside of the geographic vicinity of a nation is not part of the nation nor the people of that respective nation, rather, you may have Armenian ancestry, but you stop being Armenian after a certain away from your home nation.

.....

As for the Hemshin peoples, I don't consider them Armenian, at least the muslim Hemshin. Christianity, irrespective of which branch you have chosen to worship, constitutes a vast portion of the Armenian identity. Furthermore, most of the Hemshin are more Turkish than Armenian, in fact, most don't even like identifying themselves as Armenians, rather, they refer to themselves as Turks.

I completely disagree with you.

The concept of a modern nation is more like an organization, or job, you belong to. It doesn't (shouldn't) affect your ethnic identity.

Say, I compare "nation" with "job." You work for Sony. This will affect your work values, and the manner in which you do things. Say everything made by sony uses the C++ programming language on the Windows Operating System (OS), they are the official programming language and OS used by the company. Therefore, being part of the company, you are forced to learn and use them as well, but you might use an entirely different language and OS at home or in your personal life, and make entirely different things than you do in the company. If your friend works for Apple, he will do things differently. You may both hate each other because your companies are direct competitors, and you think the culture of your company is better than his. However, neither of this changes you as a person, and your own personal preferences, until you opt for your company's style and adopt it as your own personal style (assimilation). It's a far-fetched example, but that's the analogy I use to differentiate nation from ethnicity. In a republic, we're part of an organized structure of a lifestyle, and there is an official language set to make communication with everyone else in the republic easy. You don't have to use it when you don't need to. I'm part of the American nation, and have adopted American culture as a generic culture I wear in public, but in my personal life, I am an Armenian and among other Armenians or people who understand my personal views, I wear my Armenian culture. Therefore, the nation of Hamshen Armenians in Turkey is "Turkish." But as long as they are aware of their own personal values and culture, they are ethnic Hamshen Armenians.

However, a nation shouldn't force its members to assimilate. It should have laws set to allow people to live their lives the way they want to. This is difficult in Turkey, because they have a degenerated, backward "Turkey for Turks" ideology* engraved in the heads of all citizens of Turkey, and certain laws take away the freedom and comfort of ethnic minorities. Minorities feel not-at-home in their native lands, and Turks feel like they have all the power in their hands.

Officially, Turkey uses the definition of "Turk" as a national label rather than an ethnic one, but this is contradicted by the law that "forbids insulting Turkishness." If Turkey was a democratic republic that tried to build a society where everyone is equal and that tried to give a comfortable lifestyle to all of its members, they would alter that law based on the "Turkey-for-turks" ideology and instead make a law that "forbids insulting the ethnic identity of any other people(s)" and that doesn't protect only one of the ethnic groups in the society: Turks. Why is it that a Laz could go to jail for insulting a Turk's "Turkishness," but a Turk gets no such punishment if he insults his "Lazness"? Or why shouldn't an ethnic Laz go to jail for insulting "Kurdishness" or "Armenianness"?? How is that being a fair, democratic society? If any citizen of Turkey is a Turk, regardless of ethnicity, why is it that the moment a politician with 1/4th ethnic Armenian or Kurdish blood appears, he is quickly criticized and treated like he doesn't belong there? If "Turk" meant a citizen of Turkey, then its president would be able to say, "I am an ethnic Armenian, and as a proud member of this society, I am the president of Turkey" if it were the case. Ethnicity shouldn't be taken into consideration in the organization of a society, much like a man who knows how to use C++ shouldn't be fired from Sony simply because in he personally prefers to use Python at home. (this C++ thing is just an example... I don't know what programming language Sony electronics are programmed in).

*so does Armenia for Armenians, but Armenia is a young republic with its power crippled. Turkey is a lot richer, and advanced than Armenia. A country of Turkey's caliber shouldn't be so backward.

[arteom]

Re: Hemshin peoples

I am a Hamshentsi Hye, and really quite surprised about all this controversy. Well, my father is from Vana Dzor (Kirovakan). We spoke our dialect of Armenian, the school we attended taught Armenian as our mother tongue (that is what the class was called, mother tongue). The other subjects were also taught in Armenian. We have a hate for turks as much as any other Armenian, if not more. Anyone that asks me where I am from I tell them I am Armenian (to avoid a unnecessary complex discussion), any Armenian that asks me I tell them I am a Hamshen Hye. But apart from a few odd looks when they realize our language is a bit different, most are happy to meet another Armenian in this world.

[masumane]

Re: Hemshin peoples

http://www.hamshen.org/forum/index.php

[masumane]

Re: Hemshin peoples

Photo1---My grandma,when she came back her home before she work in her "bostan"(garden)She wear tradinational dress...

Photo2---Fresh Bean in Bostan

Photo3---We are save part of historical "Pughar"

[masumane]

Re: Hemshin peoples

We are live in 21th century,we use electric this is normal.... And you are right some people wildly to nature,forest and yayla....But I live in Ayder.... Have you never come to Ayder ? And I was talked about Ayder ... But if you want see a barbaric yayla ,I won't help to you... Sorry yes you said trues....

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Hemshin peoples

The "We Don't Have It" shop. It becomes less amusing when you realise it should also say "And if we do have it, don't buy it because it will be rubbish and double the usual price".

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Hemshin peoples

Two old women in Elevit, wearing traditional clothing.