Etymology of Karabakh

[SevSpitak]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

I was also wondering why the french/english/italians called it the Ottoman Empire when it should be referred to as Osman Empire.

I've read that Osman sounded Ottoman to the English.* The name became popular, through them, in Europe as Ottoman. The "-tto-" is a distortion of "-s-." I personally assume they pronounced it "O[tsu]man" (I can make my point better in Armenian as we have more letters than in english: Օցըման - with a soft ց.)

*I'm not 100% sure that it came from the English, but that's how I remember I read about it. But I'm 100% sure that Ottoman is a distortion of Osman.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

I can't find anything on the net. I'm sure it's written in one of his books, probably "Artsakhi patmutyune"

OMG lol I had bought an Armenian book on Artsakh's history way back when, so I picked it up and to my surprise, it's Բագրատ Ուլուբաբյան's book (1994). I had what I needed all along. I haven't read it, though, but I'll check it out and post whatever information I find on this here.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

I've read that Osman sounded Ottoman to the English.* The name became popular, through them, in Europe as Ottoman. The "-tto-" is a distortion of "-s-." I personally assume they pronounced it "O[tsu]man" (I can make my point better in Armenian as we have more letters than in english: Օցըման - with a soft ց.)

*I'm not 100% sure that it came from the English, but that's how I remember I read about it. But I'm 100% sure that Ottoman is a distortion of Osman.

So far what I have come up with is that perhaps it's distorted from the arabic Uthman (Arabic: عثمان; Transliteration: Othman, Osman, Usman, Ozman) is a male Arabic given name meaning "the chosen one amongst the tribe of brave and noble people", "honest", "caring", "sincere", "genuine", and "attractive".

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that in English, it would be pronounced AATOW-MAN.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

So far what I have come up with is that perhaps it's distorted from the arabic Uthman (Arabic: عثمان; Transliteration: Othman, Osman, Usman, Ozman) is a male Arabic given name meaning "the chosen one amongst the tribe of brave and noble people", "honest", "caring", "sincere", "genuine", and "attractive".

That also makes sense. Osman is not a Turkic name, it's muslim name (like Hasan, Hussein, etc). It's possible the Seljuk turks pronounced it Othman/Uthman. Consider this: when the french say "the" they pronounce it "zi," if we apply the same to Uthman/Othman, it becomes Uzman/Ozman.

We see the same in Azarbaijan: Aturpatakan becomes Athurbay[a]ghan (generally simplified to Adarbaygan) during the Arab invasion. When the empire regains its official Farsi language, Aturpatakan is forgotten, and Atharbayghan becomes Azarbayjan. The th sound is often translated to s or z from language to language.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that in English, it would be pronounced AATOW-MAN.

Considering we only have written records of the name, our current pronunciation is probably not what Europeans at the time of the Ottoman Empire pronounced it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

Considering we only have written records of the name, our current pronunciation is probably not what Europeans at the time of the Ottoman Empire pronounced it.

The Germans who were allied with the Ottoman Empire even refer to it as Osmanischen Reich, somehow heading west it changed. The name "Otto" was also a very popular Germanic name.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

OMG lol I had bought an Armenian book on Artsakh's history way back when, so I picked it up and to my surprise, it's Բագրատ Ուլուբաբյան's book (1994). I had what I needed all along. I haven't read it, though, but I'll check it out and post whatever information I find on this here.

If you figure it out, let us know.... you got me curious now too.

[Federate]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

OMG lol I had bought an Armenian book on Artsakh's history way back when, so I picked it up and to my surprise, it's Բագրատ Ուլուբաբյան's book (1994). I had what I needed all along. I haven't read it, though, but I'll check it out and post whatever information I find on this here.

Ulubabyan is great. Here's more about him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagrat_Ulubabyan

Happy reading, make sure to let us know of your discoveries.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

Happy reading, make sure to let us know of your discoveries.

Yeah, I will, but give me time, I'm not the most fluent Armenian reader, especially considering it's in eastern Armenian.

[jgk3]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

The 'Nagorno' part of Karabakh doesn't belong to Turks.

[londontsi]

Re: Etymology of Karabakh

KARABAĞ BELONGS TURKS

Why ?