Nakhichevan

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

I still am looking for the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan, the point and the purpose of my post which are CLEARLY obvious if the post is actually READ. The European distortions of the name are known to me, I can also read encyclopedias and prints on maps, that absofokkenlutely is not what I am looking for. Those who are ignorant of the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan are not invited to comment or piss around the bush.

The distortion in the name was done by Armenian writers (mostly clerics) to concoct a fake meaning for the name. European travellers from the 16th/17th/18thC wrote down the name they found the region's population actually using, and used the spelling they felt most accurately conveyed its pronounciation; they had no nationalist or religious agenda that would lead them to falsify place-names.

That's not to say travellers always wrote down correctly what they were told. There is a book by a European traveller from the 1870s that mentions him seeing a monastery called "Dudusa" near Sivas. That was always confusing to me because there is no monastery of that name, or any village called that name near Sivas. However, I later discovered that the name was actually "Tuzhisar" which must have been misheard by him as "Dudusa", and it is further complicated by the fact that "Tushisar" was the common name for the place used by its Armenian inhabitants - but in Armenian accounts it was given as its Armenian equivalent "Aghdt", which the villagers had stopped using centuries earlier.

[jgk3]

Re: Nakhichevan

I still am looking for the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan, the point and the purpose of my post which are CLEARLY obvious if the post is actually READ. The European distortions of the name are known to me, I can also read encyclopedias and prints on maps, that absofokkenlutely is not what I am looking for. Those who are ignorant of the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan are not invited to comment or piss around the bush.

I'm sorry Hellektor, but the names Bell mentioned are new to me, and are useful for linguistic inquiry into how the name might've changed phonologically overtime and how it was named by different groups. What I want to know is who those European map makers asked for the pronunciation of the name of that region, in each case. Given how they've represented it with a latin alphabet and their own writing conventions, I do agree that there could be distortions in its representation, however... they can be filtered out if you know something about the language of the map makers, and the general consensus between all the forms harking to some "naxuan"-like origin.

The original meaning of Nakhjavan (in that form) might not exist, especially if it came from a 150AD form "Naxuana" which can very plausibly emerge overtime as Nakhjavan.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

Azerbaijan's destruction of thousands of khachkars in Jugha (Julfa) is one of the most blatant acts of cultural genocide in recent years, anywhere in the world.

Yet Azerbaijan's friends in the western media have mostly kept silent about this terrible crime

It is actually the Armenian government that wants the incident hushed-up / kept silent (Azerbaijan simply says it never happened). Armenia refused to provide diplomatic representation when a delegation went to UNESCO, which delayed the meeting from taking place for many months, diminished the influence of the delegation, and hinted to UNESCO that Armenia did not want UNESCO to make too much of the incident. Armenia is currently refusing to provide diplomatic support in the ongoing effort to get the EU to pass a motion condemning the destruction.

Also, what journalist is going to cover a story when he can't even get a straight answer to the question "where was the graveyard located and what is the place called" and is not provided with proper sources or even the most basic of press releases.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

you can take it from me that west Armenians call it that!
Նախիջևան is pronounced Nakhichevan in west Armenian

Because they learned the name from its printed form found in 19thC Armenian books.

[gegev]

Re: Nakhichevan

There is a lot of information in my thread on Nakhijevan (named: Nakhidjevan Ethnic Cleanings History) at the website below; posted by different people:

Google search easily locates it by its name as a first choice.

http://+.com/index.php?showtopic=14236&st=220
Replace the + sign above with H y e f o r u m to enter the website.

[lampron]

Re: Nakhichevan

Azerbaijan's destruction of thousands of khachkars in Jugha (Julfa) is one of the most blatant acts of cultural genocide in recent years, anywhere in the world.

Yet Azerbaijan's friends in the western media have mostly kept silent about this terrible crime

[lampron]

Re: Nakhichevan

I bet nobody who has lived there has ever called it "Nakhichevan".

.

you can take it from me that west Armenians call it that!
Նախիջևան is pronounced Nakhichevan in west Armenian

[Hellektor]

Re: Nakhichevan

I still am looking for the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan, the point and the purpose of my post which are CLEARLY obvious if the post is actually READ. The European distortions of the name are known to me, I can also read encyclopedias and prints on maps, that absofokkenlutely is not what I am looking for. Those who are ignorant of the origin and the meaning of the name Nakhjavan are not invited to comment or piss around the bush.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

We have the Wilson arbitration which is THE document that concerns the delineation of the border between Armenia and Turkey, it doesn't require ratification, it's part of the law of the land of the USA, it is binding, it is timeless and it is irrevocable.

I.e.; in reality you have nothing.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nakhichevan

I have to correct a mistake in my previous post. I wrongly remembered the naming Nakhjavan was from the 11th century AD. In fact I was thinking of the relevant article in the Soviet Armenian encyclopedia where under Nakhijevan it says: UNTIL 11th century Nakhjavan.

So Nakhjavan is a much older naming than the 11th century when it changed to Nakhijevan and the famous Noah mythology was attached to the name: nakh=first ijevan=settlement.

Under Nakhjavan a few pages further it says: region of the Vaspurakan Province of the Greater Armenia (Medz Hyke), in the plain of Nakhjavan branch of the Yeraskh (Arax). Comprised of the city of Nakhjavan (center of the region) and the surrounding area, 1220 square km. in all, approximately the Babek (Turk distortion of Babak (Papak), as if he had anything to do with Turks!) area of the day (Soviet era).

There's a longer article after this one under the same topic: Nakhjavan, which I won't translate, but I'll mention the variations of the name, the meaning and origin of which is unfortunately not given, as I hadn't found out in my earlier reading years ago as well.

Nakhjuan, Nakhjvan, Nakhjavan, Nakhijavan, Nakhijevan. The restriction of English consonants taken into account I reproduce the original variants in Armenian:

Նախճուան, Նախճըւան, Նախջաւան, Նախջուան, Նախիջաւան, Նախիջևան

The search for the origin/meaning of the name is still going on and any contribution is appreciated.

It has always been Nakhchivan or minor variations on that name (such as Nakhjuan, Nakhjavan). Nobody who lived there today calls it "Nakhichevan". and (except perhaps for some posers in the 19th century) I bet nobody who has lived there has ever called it "Nakhichevan".

On the medieval maps based on Ptolomey's Geographia from around AD150 it is called "Naxuana", it is "Nassiaun" on Sanson's 1683 "Georgie" map, "Naxiuan" on Herman Moll's 1711 "Turky in Asia" map, Naxivan on Homann's 1720 "Imperii Persici" map, "Narsivan" on Bellin's 1764 "Carte de l'Armenie Gerorgie", "Naksivan" on Tirion's 1769 "Irak Arabi" map, and "Nakschivan" on the 1810 map "Charte der Laender am Caucasus" produced by the German Geographical Institute. Those names are all variations of Nakhchivan, not Nakhichevan.