Question on genetics

[ayrudzi]

I was looking at the Y-DNA of the different people of Europe and Near East, and I am puzzled. Armenians pretty much have Y-DNA that is indigenous to the Armenian Highlands.

We are primarily R1B which scientist trace its origins with the Indo-European speakers of Central Anatolia and the Armenian Highlands ( the Ancient Hittites, and the Indo-european tribes of the Armenian Highlands which became a part of forming the Armenian people)
ar
The other major one for Armenians is J2 which scientists say it originated in norther Mesopotamia and the southern regions of the Armenian Highlands ( around Lake Van region) This gene is connected with the first farmers who spread agriculture down into the middle east and west to Europe.

The other two genes are G which is native Caucasian gene (from the Caucasus) and R1A (connected with the Ancient Indo-Iranians in Armenia's case this gene could have come from the Cimmerians, or Scythians and to a lesser degree Parthians.)



NOW! here is where I am puzzled the Azeris have almost identical Y_DNA composition as we do. Only difference is they have some north African middle eastern dna, and higher on the G (probably for the Caucasian Avars and Lezgins). I was thinking Ill see some central Asian/Mongol DNA in them, but they have none. This is puzzling because even though I know they are a mixed people in a lot of Azeris you can clearly see their turkic features but the dna failed to show that. So does any one have any input or knowledge of this puzzling phenomena




here is the link to the info. (Scroll all the way down to see the Armenians and Azeris and Georgians)

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

[Eddo211]

Re: Question on genetics

Turkic Azeris are Turkified Iranians in most part (Talish are Iranians for sure).....I don't know about DNA but we should be close to Persians.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

Turkic Azeris are Turkified Iranians in most part (Talish are Iranians for sure).....I don't know about DNA but we should be close to Persians.

well dna does not show azeris being mostly turkified iranians. It shows them being mostly J2 which is native to southern armenian highlands and northern mesopotamia G which is native to the caucasus, and R1b which is native to the ancient Hittietes and Armenian highlands/

Iranians have a lot of R1A which is Indo Aryan gene plus some G the native caucasian, and some J2 they do not have a significant amount of R1b which is the native indo european gene that armenians have. so again speaking strickly with genetics it is a puzzling delima

[Eddo211]

Re: Question on genetics

All I can say is that ancient Azeri roots are from this area (Azerbaijani northern province of Iran).....Turks are not. Sorry cant be much help.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

All I can say is that ancient Azeri roots are from this area (Azerbaijani northern province of Iran).....Turks are not. Sorry cant be much help.

Yes. That is why I think there is another way to defeat this "turkish" treat that we face. Instead of calling them mongols and tatars (which genetics show it is almost non existant in them) we should through information DETURKIFY them. I think once this people relize they are not turic, but only turkifyed they will lose that animosity they hold against us

[retro]

Re: Question on genetics

well dna does not show azeris being mostly turkified iranians. It shows them being mostly J2 which is native to southern armenian highlands and northern mesopotamia G which is native to the caucasus, and R1b which is native to the ancient Hittietes and Armenian highlands/

Iranians have a lot of R1A which is Indo Aryan gene plus some G the native caucasian, and some J2 they do not have a significant amount of R1b which is the native indo european gene that armenians have. so again speaking strickly with genetics it is a puzzling delima

J2 is associated with spread of agriculture from the fertile crescent during the neolithic expansion. Azeris aren't Turko-Iranic peoples like the Uzbeks and whilst R1a is a Indo-Iranian/Central Asian marker it's not Indo-Aryan. Not all Indo-European peoples are Eurasiatic European/Central Asian or South Asian types and the Armenians, Persians and Greeks are all decended from ancient Near Eastern peoples.

However in the past, Persia was far more Indo-Iranian than it is today and it's only the Shia/Sunni divide that keeps the Indo-Iranians out. Turkic and Hunnic peoples are by no means removed from Indo-Iranians and Uralics. The Bolsheviks discriminated against Tajikistan in favour of Uzbekistan, during the Soviet era. Which is part of the reason, why Tajik-Uzbek relations are always seemingly under strain. Even though, Tajiks and Uzbeks actually have quite a lot in common with each other.

Azeris are a mix of Turkified-Persians and assorted, Central Asians. Anatolians, Caucasians and Persians are Western Asians and they have ancient ties to one another. Armenians and Assyrians are fairly closely related and as you point out they have Western Indo-European, ancestry. The Indo-Aryans are people like the Kalash, Chitral and Nuristanis in Asia. They are genetically distinct and have Western Eurasian and Indic ancestry.

[jgk3]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

[Mos]

Re: Question on genetics

It's pretty obvious that our genes will be similar to the people who we have lived next throughout the ages. Georgians, Azeris, Turks, and maybe Kurds as well will all share close similarities to us. And you make a good point, mountainous folks do not admixture as much because of the geography. In comparison to other groups of people, Armenians have been on the low side when it comes to admixture, some of it can be explained by our geography.

[hrai]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

I really like the sense this post makes.

[ayrudzi]

Re: Question on genetics

When 1. being Armenian is based upon religion and language, and
2. being Azeri is based upon religion and language, and
3. these peoples had significant population exchanges in newly created independent republics.

Then having similar genes is not that shocking.

Jesus is not enough to make your genes different from Azeris, nor is learning how to say Hayr Mer from a young age.

Being an Artsakhtsi on the otherhand, is enough to make your genes different both from mainstream Armenians and mainstream Azeris. Why? Because the mountaineers did not mingle so much with all the other folks who tilled the land or travel around the highland. The latter group (mainstream Eastern Anatolians) for thousands of years changed religions and ethnic affinities periodically, and essentially mingled relatively more than isolated mountaneers, so that whatever new mutations they had were diffused very readily with a larger segment of the world's population (i.e. the haplogroup percentage ranges we share in common with Azeris and Turks), whereas the mountaineers did not, so their mutations did not diffuse readily with everyone elses, nor did they receive the new mutations spreading around Anatolia at a comparable rate, which means they have haplogroup percentage ranges that are more archaic, meaning that you would have to go back in time to find those percentage ranges as part of what was mainstream in Anatolia, because since that time, lots of things have changed everywhere, except up in the mountains.

Thus my suggestion to you (if you are dismayed by our similar genes to Azeris): go find a mountain, deport all the Armenians there, and live there for 5000 years. That will do the trick.

I'm not dismayed buddy, on the contrary i think the similarities can be used to bring peace in the region. We have extremist Armenians and Azeris, who think their people are unique in this world, and vilify one another in the most extreme ways possible.