Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

It all has to do with intellect, pride and intent. If you have a healthy intellect, pride in your ancient heritage and you intend to educating yourself then there are allot of Armenian sources you can familiarize yourself with. Learn Armenian and studying Armenian sources. If you can only read English then you can read the sources found in the links I have provided.

My point is that our culture doesn't have to be the oldest or the most advanced one for us to love it and to defend it. Whether Armenians have been around for 10,000 years or just 3,000, I love our history and culture all the same. I did not claim to know everything, or that what I said is the absolute truth, I will read your sources when I have time and I will get back to you.

[Armenian]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Thats just speculation. The concept of an 'Armenian' was completely different in those days. You have to remember that modern nationalism is only a couple centuries old, so you can't use today's mentality when judging the past.

Please stop spewing western crap. Armenians have had an Armenian "national" identity for at least several thousand years. Just because the concept of nationalism did not reach the rest of the world until several centuries ago does not concern us Armenians. Again you are foolishly applying a western standard to Armenian issues.

Here is a good article called "Mother Tongue and The Origins of Nationalism" for you to get familiar with: http://www.armenianway.com/aw/Armen_...ish/index.html

And you might also find the "Code of Honor of the Armenian Military" of the 4/5 century AD interesting as well: http://www.armenianway.com/aw/Armen_...ng/Part12.html

Notice how ancient Armenian texts state that Armenian warriors at the time required "selfless loyalty tо their fatherland, the Armenian "world," country and independent kingdom...

Now, does that not sound like nationalism to you? Or will you still claim that nationalism amongst ancient Armenians did not exist because western "historians" claim otherwise.

Where have you heard that? The Urartian language was related to Hurrian, and was neither Semitic nor Indo-European.

Yes, and Hurrian is now said to be a Caucasian tongue.

This is the author of the site. Nowhere does it say that he is a historian, only that he is "passionate" about it. He has no credentials, and if he does, he hasn't stated them.

Why are you again quoting a westerner regarding Armenia's Karahunj or Metsamor? Why don't you try quoting Armenians? Here, let me help you:

http://www.armenianow.com/archive/2005/eng/?go=pub&id=536&issue_id=64

http://www.iatp.am/resource/science/parsamyan/new/pars-eng.htm

http://www.tacentral.com/history/metsamor.htm

Again, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but rather, to learn and to correct the incorrect knowledge that I possess. So please, keep the ad hominem comments out of the discussion.

It all has to do with intellect, pride and intent. If you have a healthy intellect, pride in your ancient heritage and you intend to educating yourself then there are allot of Armenian sources you can familiarize yourself with. Learn Armenian and studying Armenian sources. If you can only read English then you can read the sources found in the links I have provided.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Urartians were every bit Armenian, even perhaps more so than the average Armenian today

Thats just speculation. The concept of an 'Armenian' was completely different in those days. You have to remember that modern nationalism is only a couple centuries old, so you can't use today's mentality when judging the past.

The official language spoken in Urartu was Caucasian

Where have you heard that? The Urartian language was related to Hurrian, and was neither Semitic nor Indo-European.

Rick Ney started his life in Armenia in 1992, working in education, humanitarian aid and development, a relationship of that has taken him to it seems every nook of his adopted country. Rick is passionate about Armenia’s deep history and amazing ecology, and can be found roaming Armenia’s least known locales for yet another destination to write about.

This is the author of the site. Nowhere does it say that he is a historian, only that he is "passionate" about it. He has no credentials, and if he does, he hasn't stated them.


Again, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but rather, to learn and to correct the incorrect knowledge that I possess. So please, keep the ad hominem comments out of the discussion.

[Armenian]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

This is the most accepted theory:

According to who?

What I told "Kingofkings" applies to you as well. Look at the compilation of various evidences I have gathered within the link I have provided. Read it all, don't just look at the pictures or the titles. Afterwards, if you are still up to it, we'll discuss this topic further.

[Iranianazeri]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

OK, king-of-kings?

Yes, many of the Iranian Shahs called themselves that. This is the most accepted theory:

http://www.sitesled.com/members/racialreality/indo_europeans.html

[Armenian]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Armenian, you are incredibly incorrect.

Whatever...

First of all, you are either using outdated information, or you are using theories to push your point across.

We all push our theories. However, mine is based on modern archeological, folkloric and linguistic evidences.

The Armenian Iranica connection was disproven in 1875 when Armenian was removed from the Iranic sub category of the Indo Europeans.

You are having a reading comprehension problem, I never claimed Armenian was an Iranic language. Yes, their stupid theories were wrong back then and their new ones are wrong now. If you want to learn about Armenian historiography I suggest you start studying Armenian sources.

Armenians are their own sub-group, as of today, no other Indo European language has been recognized as a direct relative to Armenian.

Early Greek and Iranian is speculated to be have been related to Armenian in the distant past, hence the theorized Greco-Armeno-Aryan tongue originating in Asia Minor.

Furthermore, the Indo-European origin is still unknown, so its amazing how you would pick the one theory that supports your own point of view and try to present it as fact.

Like I said we all have our theories. However, like I said instead of parroting western academia look at the evidence at hand.

For Iranics, the most accepted theory is that they originated in Central Asia.

There are at least half a dozen speculated locations for the proto Indo-European homeland. The most logical of them all, the one with real weight behind it, is Asia Minor - Armenian Highlands. I have even seen quite a few Iranian nationalists claiming that proto-Iranians originated in Caucasia/Asia Minor.

Indo Europeans are not descendent's of Armenians. You are sounding exactly like the historical revisionist ultra-nationalistic Turks that you criticize.
Your logic is flawed because you are making some very nationalistic assumptions and picking and choosing what you want to represent for evidence (even outdated information).

I'll try this again. All Indo Europeans are distant descendants of the Armenian Highlands, not Armenians per say. My evidence is very modern. However, since you are a byproduct of Zionist/Globalist sponsored Western education you have not been exposed to it. For your information, the Turkish "Sun Theory" is based, in part, upon the historical values/evidences of the aboriginal populations of Asia Minor, thus they are indirectly accurate - to a certain degree. Basically, they have taken the rich heritage of the ancient populations of the Armenian Highlands and twisted them into Turkic crap.

This may shock you Armenian, but genetic testing has shown Armenians and Caucasian Azeri's to be genetically related, along with Georgians.

This may shock to you, but I agree. The populations of the region are more-or-less natives of the region in question. Turks for instance, depending on the region where they live, can be related to Greeks, Arabs, Slavs, Mongols or various Caucasians peoples including Armenian. However, it may also come as a shock to you that the so-called "genetic studies" being done today is nothing but "voodoo" science driven by geopolitical agendas. Such types of testing can be easily manipulated to get whatever results the "sponsors" of the test desire. As such, I have seen studies that claim Russians are part Mongols, Greeks are part Africans and Italians are part Semites. I have also seen studies that claim they all are Europeans. There are studies that claim J-e-ws are related to peoples of Asia Minor, while other studies about J-e-ws claim that they are natives of Palestine, while other studies claim they are Europeans. And there are "studies" that prove that you are related to fish and of course monkeys.

In short, these studies are agenda driven, thus they often times contradict each other.

So, take that into consideration next time you refer to a topic you don't know much about. And I'll you what, if you want to continue discussing this subject with me, first read all the materials I have compiled in the following thread: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Armenian_...?showtopic=199

Read it all and then let's discuss what scientific evidences you have that may back up what you are claiming.

OK, king-of-kings?

[Shahanshah]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Armenian, you are incredibly incorrect.

First of all, you are either using outdated information, or you are using theories to push your point across.

The Armenian Iranica connection was disproven in 1875 when Armenian was removed from the Iranic sub category of the Indo Europeans.

Armenians are their own sub-group, as of today, no other Indo European language has been recognized as a direct relative to Armenian.

Furthermore, the Indo-European origin is still unknown, so its amazing how you would pick the one theory that supports your own point of view and try to present it as fact.

For Iranics, the most accepted theory is that they originated in Central Asia.

Indo Europeans are not descendent's of Armenians. You are sounding exactly like the historical revisionist ultra-nationalistic Turks that you criticize.

Your logic is flawed because you are making some very nationalistic assumptions and picking and choosing what you want to represent for evidence (even outdated information).

This may shock you Armenian, but genetic testing has shown Armenians and Caucasian Azeri's to be genetically related, along with Georgians.

[Armenian]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Armenian, Urartu is a different culture with a different language than the Armenian culture.

Yes, according to Turks and their supporters you are totally right.

We are surely descendents of them, and their culture meshed and evolved into ours, but Urartians are not Armenians. They spoke a different language. Its like saying that the Romans were Etruscans (I could be wrong, but thats my take).

Urartians were every bit Armenian, even perhaps more so than the average Armenian today. The official language spoken in Urartu was Caucasian, just like the official language spoken during the classical period was Persian. Armenia's official "language" was also Greek, Assyrian and Russian during different periods. Does that make us ethnically Greek, Assyrian and or Russian? Armenians are also derived from pre-Urartian Hurrians who were also a Caucasian tribe. Thus, language per say is a single factor amongst several fundamental factors that determine ethnicity. Besides which, Armenian language is said to be a mix of Indo European and Caucasian languages, the root being the former.

You seem to know little about your historiography. I suggest you stop absorbing western theories about your nation and begin doing serious research about the period in question. Urartians were Armenians in every sense of the word. I'll choose to listen to dozens of Armenian scholars that make this case and I choose to rely on my own logic and intellect. And its absolutely stupid of you to stay away from Armenian scholars regarding this issue - as you accept non-Armenian scholars. It simply shows your inexperience and self-hate.

Thats not true. Armenian is its own subgroup under the Indo-European languages, while Iranian is a separate group, with many subgroups attached to it.

No, first you need to better understand what you are discussing. Look at what I provided again. The Armenian language is 'currently' a separate branch. But in the distant past it was found in a subgroup. Indo-European languages gradually evolved from a single source, one that was spoken in the Armenian Highlands the birthplace of human civilization.

What are your sources? I'm not talking geocities sites, or Armenian sites. Which scholars or institutions can you name me which claim this? (I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just curious as to what your sources are).

I posted one famous source. Instead of looking at the name of the website, I suggest you look at the names of the scholars. There are a least dozen Armenian scholars that I can refer you to as well.

Nonetheless, what are your sources? Are they the crap that has been fed to us by Joos, Turks and Americans about Armenians being invaders from the Balkans?

The following website is a good place to start getting familiar with an Armeno-centric approach to our history: http://www.tacentral.com/history.asp#

More on Urartu: http://www.tacentral.com/erebuni/

[Selpak]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

"Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination " wtf.

Does anyone know Germany's East policies? Rush to Baku??

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Aryan Roots Save Armenians from Nazi Extermination

Armenian, Urartu is a different culture with a different language than the Armenian culture. We are surely descendents of them, and their culture meshed and evolved into ours, but Urartians are not Armenians. They spoke a different language. Its like saying that the Romans were Etruscans (I could be wrong, but thats my take).

And your language is of the same subbranch as the Armenian language

Thats not true. Armenian is its own subgroup under the Indo-European languages, while Iranian is a separate group, with many subgroups attached to it.

What are your sources? I'm not talking geocities sites, or Armenian sites. Which scholars or institutions can you name me which claim this? (I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just curious as to what your sources are).