Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

[KanadaHye]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

There is nothing wrong with being nationalist as long as it doesn't blind you. That's the danger.... to realize that not everything a nation does is good for it's people. Which is why I always look at things from the bigger picture. I don't consider myself Canadian, I'm an Armenian living in Canada. Just because I'm a citizen doesn't mean I have to be nationalistic.

[hrai]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

It's not the same thing Anoush jan. It's very similar but not the same thing. And I never said Nationalist is a taboo word.

No, you didn't BUT in post #61 here you said " A true Armenian...isn't a nationalist"

There are lot's of great nationalists out there, don't get me wrong, but I don't consider them to be nationalists and neither do they.

Tumbling and turning like a leaf in the wind.

I wouldn't say anything to offend you Anoush jan. You know that and if you don't after all this time then I don't know why I'm talking to you.

" I don't know why I'm talking to you, boohoo" Saco, how many times do you try this tactic? A line like that should have been left in the schoolyard.

Anoushka, you're spot on about Nationalism (again!). Armenians have to be Nationalists, have had to be Nationalists throughout the ages, some may say the term was coined 200 years ago although that was when nations looked to break free of the oppression of imperial powers.
Only people from large countries with secure borders and/or friendly neighbours can afford the luxury of not being Nationalists.

[Sako]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

There is nothing wrong with being nationalist as long as it doesn't blind you. That's the danger.... to realize that not everything a nation does is good for it's people. Which is why I always look at things from the bigger picture. I don't consider myself Canadian, I'm an Armenian living in Canada. Just because I'm a citizen doesn't mean I have to be nationalistic.

Quoted for truth.

Saco, lets say that we agree on this one not to agree. Btw; Antranik was a great nationalist in my books whether he admit it or not. And I am a firm believer so was Karekin Nejteh.

Maybe you should read they're books then and see who they really were. They were WAY beyond nationalism. See, what I'm saying is that many confuse nationalism with true love for your country. They aren't the same thing because nationalism, unlike true love, can lead you astray if you aren't careful.

Why are you saying that I am screaming at you? I wrote it in large letters and highlighted it so that it will be well noticed as I wrote it in between your sentences - quotes. I hope you didn't get a different impression.

I apologize kuyr, I actually did get the wrong impression. In the forums, writing in big letters is a sign of anger so I thought you were shouting at me. T-tk, confusion deleted !

Now did you have to say that you don't know why you're talking to me? Was that necessary?

If you really were shouting and getting mad at me, then I guess so. If you don't know who I am till now, how much I love my nation, and how much I respect you then I really don't know why I'm talking to you. It's not that way though so I apologize.

No, you didn't BUT in post #61 here you said " A true Armenian...isn't a nationalist"

And I still stand by what I say. This doesn't mean though that all the others are BAD Armenians. If you read my recent post, you'd understand why a True Armenian isn't a nationalist and has never been a nationalist in the past. It doesn't matter if times have changed. We don't have to be nationalists to help our nation and make it prospor.

"I don't know why I'm talking to you, boohoo" Saco, how many times do you try this tactic? A line like that should have been left in the schoolyard.

It's not a tactic, Hrai, and so many different people use it on so many different occasions. Stop kidding yourself and get a move on. Till now, you've only been searching for holes in my posts. That's something you should've left in the schoolyard! If you don't have something serious to say then let's stop here.

Anoushka, you're spot on about Nationalism (again!). Armenians have to be Nationalists, have had to be Nationalists throughout the ages, some may say the term was coined 200 years ago although that was when nations looked to break free of the oppression of imperial powers.
Only people from large countries with secure borders and/or friendly neighbours can afford the luxury of not being Nationalists.

Wrong again...but if this is how you think then let's leave it here. I see you don't want to understand what I'm saying and I'm not going to try and convince you or take this topic any further. I've said a lot of different things and have exchanged many ideas for you guys to think about. So have all of you. If you can take something useful from what I said then I'm happy. If not ... it's your business, and I'm still happy and I'll try to take something useful from what you guys said.

[Lucin]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

I'm a very proud Nationalist and nothing is going to change that I've got my views of this world and maybe some people don't like it but I'm not going to say sorry for my views.

And Saco I'll respond to your points when I've got more time and RL isn't a xxxxx like it's now. Got a German test tomorrow, a French test the next day. And after that going to London for three days and also exams coming up in a couple of week. So don't think we are done here because we aren't far from it. You'll have to wait till we can go on.

Oh my God Karo, I'm getting jealous of you seriously. How many languages do you learn there? German, French, English, Armenian??

[hrai]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Till now, you've only been searching for holes in my posts.

I don't search for holes in your posts, there's always so many they're a Health & Safety danger!

[Sako]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

I don't search for holes in your posts, there's always so many they're a Health & Safety danger!

Maybe the holes are in your eyes ?

[Anoush]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

No, you didn't BUT in post #61 here you said " A true Armenian...isn't a nationalist"


Tumbling and turning like a leaf in the wind.

" I don't know why I'm talking to you, boohoo" Saco, how many times do you try this tactic? A line like that should have been left in the schoolyard.

Anoushka, you're spot on about Nationalism (again!). Armenians have to be Nationalists, have had to be Nationalists throughout the ages, some may say the term was coined 200 years ago although that was when nations looked to break free of the oppression of imperial powers.
Only people from large countries with secure borders and/or friendly neighbours can afford the luxury of not being Nationalists.

Hrai, in regards to the above highlighed paragraph it is exactly the very reason why I am adament as to why especially we Armenians have to be nationalistically driven. It's like as plain as any clear picture on a wall. We have been amidst denyalist barbarically belligerent two nations; mind you not one but two. How can any Armenian who well knows our history and has any sense at all cannot see the reality of the situations and yet continuously fight about this? Now I didn't say go and kill the turks or the azeris when you confront them or finally get hold of your anscestral lands that belonged to you, I am merely saying to be nationalistic and very patriotic to survive amidst barbaric two countries. Whether in the Diaspora or in Armenia; our people and our youth have to be nationalistic Armenians and very patriotics to think Armenian, love their country, their people to the fullest and by all means stay Armenians by marrying each other and NOT assymilating. Now if this isn't clear enough to Saco or anyone else here, I rest my case.

To Saco, Andranik may say that he wasn't a nationalist but I will argue with anyone that all his lifelong actions in life shows me that he was. Especially and including Karekin Nejteh. And of course because of it I am proud and happy to have such geniuses and heroes who fought a great deal of their lives to preserve their Armenian brethren, heritage and country.

[hipeter924]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

As for being nationalistic not necessary for nations without physical enemies that is kind of false. Like in NZ we had the pinochet economists, that tried to sell every state owned company to US and Australia (effectively making NZ a slave state or colony of both). It was an outside force attacking from within. Nations that do not face physical threats like Armenia are faced with economic threats and economic domination. So even if Armenia did not have a threat like from Turkey and the Azeri's I think Armenia would still have nationalism due to the economic situation aka Globalization.

[Anoush]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

As for being nationalistic not necessary for nations without physical enemies that is kind of false. Like in NZ we had the pinochet economists, that tried to sell every state owned company to US and Australia (effectively making NZ a slave state or colony of both). It was an outside force attacking from within. Nations that do not face physical threats like Armenia are faced with economic threats and economic domination. So even if Armenia did not have a threat like from Turkey and the Azeri's I think Armenia would still have nationalism due to the economic situation aka Globalization.

Thank you hipeter for letting us know what has happened in NZ, I didn't know and your point is well taken.

[Eddo211]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

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..........Now I didn't say go and kill the turks or the azeris when you confront them or finally get hold of your anscestral lands that belonged to you, I am merely saying to be nationalistic and very patriotic to survive amidst barbaric two countries......Andranik may say that he wasn't a nationalist but I will argue with anyone that all his lifelong actions in life shows me that he was......

Why not? I think it is only fair to return the favor when we can………….especially when they are still at it.
In regards to General Andranik. One must ask himself why such revolutionary man would end up quitting all nationalistic organizations......and at the end make such a statement. You cannot just dismiss it as "well, he didn’t really mean it".