Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

[Anoush]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

I believe we need more heroes like Monte, a leader who is ready to sacrafice everything for Armenia. But now we don't have a personal like that and there are very few in Armenia or outside with everything needed to be a charismatic leader like we used to have. We need new Andraniks, Dros, Montes people like them.

A nationality that produces Vartan Mamigonyans, Andraniks, Dros, Montes; can and will produce them again.

I wont because a month ago he was preaching something else go and read what he was preaching and I believe we should give them the benefit of the doubt because I think we will not do anything foolish. I agree it seems like they are making a mistake, but they are also saying that they wont open the borders with conditions. I think the borders will open one day but not now you should look at the language coming out of Ankara, Stepanakert, Yerevan and Baku.

Serzh didn't let the rest of the parties such as Dashnagtsoutyun to know what was in the "road map" and Dashnagtsoutyun and the HKK also I believe left the coalition right away because they didn't have faith in Serzh or what and how he was collaborating with the enemy. Why don't you go and read my writings above in this thread and my reasons why I find Serzh and Edward responsible for various things. One of them signing that "Road map" on the eve of our April 24 commemoration day, exactly on April 23rd, they couldn't tell the US or the enemy that they would pefer it at any other day but not on the eve of our April 24th commemoration day? Then they have collaborated with our number one enemy to let the enemy in on our Medzamort Nuclear Power Plant. What kind of a government are they running these people? I and many like myself don't understand all of thise.

You can't blame the poverty on the goverment. Armenia is a country with most of it's borders closed so they lose alot of trade by that. Because a war can start there there are no foreign investers coming in the county to invest in it. That's what I don't like blaming every thing that goes wrong on the government, and us Armenians like to do that not only the ones living in Hayastan but also the ones outside of it.

Yes when we see that the governing bodies are living lavishly when the majority of people are extremely poor. What are the people of the country or us looking into the country supposed to say when the governing bodies of the country and their relatives and friends have cell phones, expensive cars, lavish houses, second houses in resort areas, beautiful clothing, lavishly living, and plenty plenty of food on their tables every day; yet the rest of the country is awfully poor so much that a great deal of men they have to leave their country to earn moneys elsewhere to send it to their beloved families. Other than this, what is the government doing to stop the "CORRUPTION" in the country. They really have to work at it and punish each and everyone that has anything to do with corruption in the country. Secondly if the corruption stopped, numerous people from the Diaspora would be able to open heartedly go there and or invest money in the country; but most of them such as myself, I would be afraid that my dollars whatever effort and money that I would put into it will go into the wrong hands. There has been many incidents that people have tried and they have been royally mugged. So yes, by almost totally stopping the "corruption" in the country, many wealthy people would go there and invest money, business and so forth. But the corruption must stop. And who can do it successfully, only the government.

We should start investing in our country us living in the diaspora. We need to go back and start bussenesses there make job oppurtinities for the people.

Like I stated above, the corruption is the evil of a great many misfortunes for the country. It's the job of the government to stop it.

The government needs to collect taxes from every one and start investing in the countries by construction works like Hitler did in Germany in the 30s. There are no easy answers to the poverty and I don't like when people start blaming the government for it like they are the ones who don't want to see a rich Hayastan. How richer Hayastan is how richer they'll get. You see why I don't like his views.

The government are probably taxing people enough. How can you tax them anymore when the men have to go elsewhere to earn money to send it to their kins to fill their stomachs with food? It surely isn't a simple answer to all of these questions, as much as we want to simplify it. The real answer lies mostly with how the government can and would stop the corruption, live themselves much more humbly and not parade their wealth and high living to the people that are poor and living day by day, and try and see ways to create jobs for almost everyone.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Unfortunately there was one and he lost his life because he was extremely patriotic and a very giving person. Of course I am talking about Monte Melkonian. He was a Fedayi leader/general. There were other leaders from Artsax or from Armenia, yet he was the only one who was constantly on the front lines with his troops fighting. Some may say that he wasn't smart doing that but I say he was a true HERO but a HERO with a HEART!!! Because he didn't consider himself above his beloved fellow men (his troops). That's why when he died they all cried for him because they loved him dearly. It's a shame but he could've been one hell of a president. Now he would never sell his country under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. An neither do I. Maybe Hellektor or I should be the president of Armenia if Tashnagtsoutyun chose us. Because we would much rather die than ever deceive our country or our people who have died many deaths throughout the past 900 years. But seriously, I am sure Dashnagtsoutyun would come up with someone if that time came anytime soon. Bottomline what I am trying to say here is yes the people that are the governing bodies have to have some kind of leadership experience and background, plus they have to be very smart and intelligent; but above all and most importantly they have to be extremely patriotic and never never be sold out by the enemy or any other nation. Their ultimate commitment, heart and soul must be given to the country that they lead. That's the gist I am trying to make here! And that's a given!

I believe we need more heroes like Monte, a leader who is ready to sacrafice everything for Armenia. But now we don't have a personal like that and there are very few in Armenia or outside with everything needed to be a charismatic leader like we used to have. We need new Andraniks, Dros, Montes people like them.

Now Karothe quite frankly I must say that you have to come up with some kind of kindly talks towards Saco "vor sirde arnes". 1. We are not there to judge our beloved people who are there suffering every day; but he is. 2. Levon indeed was and is a traitor, we all know that; I thought and hoped that Serge was the better guy because he wasn't bought out by the Zionist Jews and the West, but it became clear to us lately that Serge is collaborating with the Turks and he has kept the "road map" agreements between the turks (our no.1 enemy) and himself secret. I have said it before in a long paragraph stating everything that looked very fishy all his secret agreements with the turks. Read them and read them carefully please. Let's hope that Serzh doesn't come with any agreements with the turks or the azeris and doesn't sell out Armenia. Frankly I'm praying for that.

I wont because a month ago he was preaching something else go and read what he was preaching and I believe we should give them the benefit of the doubt becauseI think we will not do anything foolish. I agree it seems like they are making a mistake, but they are also saying that they wont open the borders with conditions. I think the borders will open one day but not now you should look at the language coming out of Ankara, Stepanakert, Yerevan and Baku.

Also you cannot blame the poor people of Armenia that are in there suffering to put bread on the table; when the government is not supporting most of the people and through "corruption" rather they are helping themselves. Before I spoke with Saco in here, I knew that in the middle of Yerevan at a certain radius there are the very rich and then the rest of the people (mostly) are very poor, thus there are the rich minority and the very poor majority. If the government are not "corrupted" and selfish, but rather giving then they should've by now tried their very best to live very humbly themselves and try very hard to find good jobs to feed the people. The people are very important for our country, the people are the ones that count, the people cannot all lie, and the people have to have jobs to start having dignity and some kind of comfort to stay in the country. Without the people you have no counry.

You can't blame the poverty on the goverment. Armenia is a country with most of it's borders closed so they lose alot of trade by that. Because a war can start there there are no foreign investers coming in the county to invest in it. That's what I don't like blaming every thing that goes wrong on the government, and us Armenians like to do that not only the ones living in Hayastan but also the ones outside of it. We should start investing in our country us living in the diaspora. We need to go back and start bussnises there make job oppurtinities for the people. The government needs to collect takses from every one and start investing in the countries by constructin works like Hitler did in Germany in the 30s. There are no easy answers to the poverty and I don't like when people start blaming the government for it like they arethe ones who don't want to see a rich Hayastan. How richer Hayastan is how richer they'll get. You see why I don't like his views.

[Anoush]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

They need to get a charismatic leader, who will get the support of the people and it would help if he was a hero of the Artsakh war. A person who can show he is ready to sacrifice his life for Armenia.

Unfortunately there was one and he lost his life because he was extremely patriotic and a very giving person. Of course I am talking about Monte Melkonian. He was a Fedayi leader/general. There were other leaders from Artsax or from Armenia, yet he was the only one who was constantly on the front lines with his troops fighting. Some may say that he wasn't smart doing that but I say he was a true HERO but a HERO with a HEART!!! Because he didn't consider himself above his beloved fellow men (his troops). That's why when he died they all cried for him because they loved him dearly. It's a shame but he could've been one hell of a president. Now he would never sell his country under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. An neither do I. Maybe Hellektor or I should be the president of Armenia if Tashnagtsoutyun chose us. Because we would much rather die than ever deceive our country or our people who have died many deaths throughout the past 900 years. But seriously, I am sure Dashnagtsoutyun would come up with someone if that time came anytime soon. Bottomline what I am trying to say here is yes the people that are the governing bodies have to have some kind of leadership experience and background, plus they have to be very smart and intelligent; but above all and most importantly they have to be extremely patriotic and never never be sold out by the enemy or any other nation. Their ultimate commitment, heart and soul must be given to the country that they lead. That's the gist I am trying to make here! And that's a given!

Now Karothe quite frankly I must say that you have to come up with some kind of kindly talks towards Saco "vor sirde arnes". 1. We are not there to judge our beloved people who are there suffering every day; but he is. 2. Levon indeed was and is a traitor, we all know that; I thought and hoped that Serge was the better guy because he wasn't bought out by the Zionist Jews and the West, but it became clear to us lately that Serge is collaborating with the Turks and he has kept the "road map" agreements between the turks (our no.1 enemy) and himself secret. I have said it before in a long paragraph stating everything that looked very fishy all his secret agreements with the turks. Read them and read them carefully please. Let's hope that Serzh doesn't come with any agreements with the turks or the azeris and doesn't sell out Armenia. Frankly I'm praying for that.

Also you cannot blame the poor people of Armenia that are in there suffering to put bread on the table; when the government is not supporting most of the people and through "corruption" rather they are helping themselves. Before I spoke with Saco in here, I knew that in the middle of Yerevan at a certain radius there are the very rich and then the rest of the people (mostly) are very poor, thus there are the rich minority and the very poor majority. If the government are not "corrupted" and selfish, but rather giving then they should've by now tried their very best to live very humbly themselves and try very hard to find good jobs to feed the people. The people are very important for our country, the people are the ones that count, the people cannot all lie, and the people have to have jobs to start having dignity and some kind of comfort to stay in the country. Without the people you have no counry.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Hi Pedro and I am glad you see it my way about this; in the next post Hrai is asking for your opinion as to why you think that the said parties would be good for Armenia. You may choose or not to answer him later if you want, however this is why I think they'll be good and if I said it before I'll say it again.

I know Dashnagtsoutun's Party that they are extremely nationalistically derived; whatever is ultimately good for our people, for our lands and for our motherland is what drives them and leads them to do and be. Plus they have 119 years of extensive history with heroic deeds, and through those years many times they proved their good views and their stand; which is only for our sacred cause and for all the things that I have mentioned above.

If Dashnagtsoutyun doesn't have a good leader right now I would think that they would or may come up with one.

They need to get a charismatic leader, who will get the support of the people and it would help if he was a hero of the Artsakh war. A person who can show he is ready to sacrifice his life for Armenia.

[Anoush]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

As to the thread, I have for a long time said I disagree with Serge S1argsyan, I am not Armenian, nor do I live in Armena, so obviously the choice of the president or his party is not up to me, but through analysis I agree with Anoush, a Hunchak or Dashnak administration would better serve Armenia than HHK leaders

Hi Pedro and I am glad you see it my way about this; in the next post Hrai is asking for your opinion as to why you think that the said parties would be good for Armenia. You may choose or not to answer him later if you want, however this is why I think they'll be good and if I said it before I'll say it again.

I know Dashnagtsoutun's Party that they are extremely nationalistically derived; whatever is ultimately good for our people, for our lands and for our motherland is what drives them and leads them to do and be. Plus they have 119 years of extensive history with heroic deeds, and through those years many times they proved their good views and their stand; which is only for our sacred cause and for all the things that I have mentioned above.

If Dashnagtsoutyun doesn't have a good leader right now I would think that they would or may come up with one.

[Sako]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Who are the people you are talking about I see only you the though guy of the forum. The Turk lover like I see it. of have you forgotten those days

Kiss ass loser, I said the conversation is over.

And though guy is gonna kick my ass look how scared I am

I don't blame you, kid! It happens from time to time. Don't take it too hard ~~

And this has started when I discovered your love for the Turks not in the other thread you low life.

KaklantheGreat, I don't love Turks, I simply respect those who deserve to be respected (as I've said a hundred times, maybe more ). If we don't, how will anyone ever respect us? Those who are trying hard to move on. Those who regret what happened. They are the ones that I respect especially some of the serious ones that left the forums because of xxxxxxxs like you. Why would I love ALL Turks gyoti glukh? Only a brainless midget like you could think something like that.

And once again you make the claims in this thread proof them here if you can that is

You are beneath me!... I don't need to prove anything to you. I've proved everything already ... especially how much off a kats you are!

the post you see above is the last one I've written to him. And I've read enough of his threads to see what he is.

I didn't know you had that much brain-power . I've read enough of your pathetic posts to let me know ... EXACTLY ... who you are. It's a good thing you don't live here in Yerevan. One less xxxxx to deal with!

By the way, just wanted to remind you that your asskissing session is in 2 hours! Don't keep em' waiting tiger !

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Both of you guys really need to step down, regardless of who disagrees with who, you guys are going to get yourselves banned by moderators and its just going to end up making you both look silly, why do people always resort to personal insults, argumentum ad hominem adds nothing to the thread, I see the same thing at Chicano.org where I moderate, rather stick to the facts, your intellect to prove or disprove facts, not personal attacks

Karo, Saco does not hate nor support Turks from Turkey, he sees it in the sense that its better to bury the hatchet than start a bloody war which will just lead to more deaths on both sides, rather use diplomacy to achieve your ends a voice is just as powerful weapon as the gun, the way of the pistol, gun or machete is only there as a last resort in disagreements

Like it or not Turks are people, rather reach out to those who are not intolerant and it will benefit many

As to the thread, I have for a long time said I disagree with Serge Sargsyan, I am not Armenian, nor do I live in Armena, so obviously the choice of the president or his party is not up to me, but through analysis I agree with Anoush, a Hunchak or Dashnak administration would better serve Armenia than HHK leaders

the post you see above is the last one I've written to him. And I've read enough of his threads to see what he is.

And I would love to see a nationalistic government but the Dashnaks don't have the person to take charge right now. They need to find a person with a spark. One of the commanders of the Artsakh war or a general.

And there are higher powers who want the border open, but after the statements of the last days i don't think they'll open anytime soon.

[hrai]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Karo, Saco does not hate nor support Turks from Turkey, he sees it in the sense that its better to bury the hatchet than start a bloody war which will just lead to more deaths on both sides, rather use diplomacy to achieve your ends a voice is just as powerful weapon as the gun, the way of the pistol, gun or machete is only there as a last resort in disagreements

The above posts are diplomatic???!!

but through analysis I agree with Anoush, a Hunchak or Dashnak administration would better serve Armenia than HHK leaders

I'd be interested as to your analysis and why you would make that choice, Pedro.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Both of you guys really need to step down, regardless of who disagrees with who, you guys are going to get yourselves banned by moderators and its just going to end up making you both look silly, why do people always resort to personal insults, argumentum ad hominem adds nothing to the thread, I see the same thing at Chicano.org where I moderate, rather stick to the facts, your intellect to prove or disprove facts, not personal attacks

Karo, Saco does not hate nor support Turks from Turkey, he sees it in the sense that its better to bury the hatchet than start a bloody war which will just lead to more deaths on both sides, rather use diplomacy to achieve your ends a voice is just as powerful weapon as the gun, the way of the pistol, gun or machete is only there as a last resort in disagreements

Like it or not Turks are people, rather reach out to those who are not intolerant and it will benefit many

As to the thread, I have for a long time said I disagree with Serge Sargsyan, I am not Armenian, nor do I live in Armena, so obviously the choice of the president or his party is not up to me, but through analysis I agree with Anoush, a Hunchak or Dashnak administration would better serve Armenia than HHK leaders

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Say NO to Capitulation - Surrendering to the Turks

Oh stop your whining. I don't act tough. I am tough, loser! And what makes you think I'm not gonna stomp your ass when you come to Yerevan? All you've been doing is talking xxxx about our people. Your a disgrace to the Armenian populace. I don't need to prove that. Your pathetic arguments prove that for me. You live out there in the Diaspora and spit out saliva. What makes you think you know anything that goes down here in this nation? Your judging a book by it's cover. You just see a few nice steps that this gov. takes and think everything is fine and dandy. It's not like that ... not even close. Just read Anoush's post. She describes what's going on clearly although I must say that's not even ten percent of our problems.



Lakot, I'm the one asking the questions around here, not you. I've proven everything I've said a hundred times over, more then you EVER have. I've said everything already in Anoush's thread and in many others. Why should I repeat myself? Or better yet, for who? YOU ? You don't deserve that much attention, kid. Get back to your studies and come back here when YOU have proof ... any proof at all will do. You haven't proven a SINGLE WORD that's come out of your mouth so far no matter what we've talked about and remember that this xxxx started from the other thread because of YOU, not because me. I was talking normally to Anoush and suddenly this gov. ass kisser comes up to me and tells me to stop my anti-government "propoganda" when all I was doing was showing my disgust (like many, many others). And not only because of the borders. Me and Anoush go way back in that thread, talking about so much, going through a lot of different painful isses. You didn't understand xxxx. You didn't even take the time to check out what I was saying you lazy ass xxxxx. So you can take your BS and stick it where the sun doth not shine!



Your presence alone cracks me up, kid, let alone your childish views. We're not laughing with you buddy, we're laughing at you.

When you understand what I was saying ... you won't be laughing any more!



Tsk, tsk. Come now, one must not disrespect himself in such a manner!

I've answered everything ... proven everything I've said in MANY threads (including Anoush who tried making you understand what I'm saying, frutilessly of course) ... kicked your worthless balls in the dirt for what you said ... and I have nothing more to add. I don't have time for brain-dead diasporans. In your posts, you have only shown how much you suck at reading and how your mind fails to concieve useful information. If you show even the slightest sign of minor intelligence, I'll consider telling you what you don't know. Till then, your still miserable KarotheLoser who doesn't know xxxx about his own people and this conversation is something I like to call ... OVER!

Who are the people you are talking about I see only you the though guy of the forum. The Turk lover like I see it. of have you forgotten those days

And though guy is gonna kick my ass look how scared I am

And this has started when I discovered your love for the Turks not in the other thread you low life.

And once again you make the claims in this thread proof them here if you can that is