Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Nonsense... Alexandros as usual is just being facetious. He very well knows that the word 'Rum' i.e. Roman used in Turkish is commonly identified with the Greeks. This association due to the Byzantium empire being known at one point in history as the Eastern Roman Empire.

Does that include Greek ancient monuments too? LOL. Anyway, Turkey`s state policy is pretty paranoid when it comes to Greek, Armenian, Assyrian...monuments and how to define them. It has gone even so far that Turkey is renaming animals:

Even animal names can become contentious in politics


Turkey renames 'divisive' animals

Last Updated: Tuesday, 8 March, 2005, 10:41 GMT

Turkey has said it is changing the names of three animals found on its territory to remove references to Kurdistan or Armenia.

The environment ministry says the Latin names of the red fox, the wild sheep and the roe deer will be altered.

The red fox for instance, known as Vulpes Vulpes Kurdistanica, will now be known as Vulpes Vulpes.

Turkey has uneasy relations with neighbouring Armenia and opposes Kurdish separatists in Turkey.

The ministry said the old names were contrary to Turkish unity.

"Unfortunately there are many other species in Turkey which were named this way with ill intentions. This ill intent is so obvious that even species only found in our country were given names against Turkey's unity," a ministry statement quoted by Reuters news agency said.

Some Turkish officials say the names are being used to argue that Armenians or Kurds had lived in the areas where the animals were found.

Turkey has tense ties with its eastern neighbour Armenia, which it does not officially recognise.

Armenians accuse Turkey of genocide, saying 1.5 million of their people died or were deported from their homelands under Turkish Ottoman rule.

Turkey denies the genocide and says the death count is inflated.

For the last two decades, Turkey has also been fighting Kurdish separatists, who have sought an independent state in Turkey's south-east.

NAME CHANGES

Red fox known as Vulpes Vulpes Kurdistanica becomes Vulpes Vulpes

Wild sheep called Ovis Armeniana becomes Ovis Orientalis Anatolicus

Roe deer known as Capreolus Capreolus Armenus becomes Capreolus Cuprelus Capreolus

Link

[jgk3]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

lol, now that is pretty amazing. I'm sure the rest of the world, even if they were half as paranoid as Turkey in this regard, wouldn't bother to change any names of things derived from the word for Turk, because such names probably offer an insulting association to them anyway.

[gegev]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Agriculture in short (in Turkish) means - culture: according to Turkish sanetists. Alas there are just a few sane tists.

Turkish culture is unpredictable. It can affect even animals.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Nonsense... Alexandros as usual is just being facetious. He very well knows that the word 'Rum' i.e. Roman used in Turkish is commonly identified with the Greeks. This association due to the Byzantium empire being known at one point in history as the Eastern Roman Empire.

Not really, y'all did the same with regard to the church of Akhtamar (Akh Tamar, google the story), now it's Akdamar (White Vein) and you claim its a Turkish Christian church...sorry nice try Jos but once again you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Nonsense... Alexandros as usual is just being facetious. He very well knows that the word 'Rum' i.e. Roman used in Turkish is commonly identified with the Greeks. This association due to the Byzantium empire being known at one point in history as the Eastern Roman Empire.

Please tell me if you see the word "Armenian" or "Greek" anywhere on Turkey's official tourism site, because I don't: http://www.tourismturkey.org/03-00-M...MS&Sub=EASTERN

Everything is "Turkish", "Anatolian", "Seljuk", "Ottoman", etc. They talk about Homer, Alexander, etc, without mentioning the word "Greek" or "Hellen". So many Greek temples and churches, so many Armenian monuments, and they weren't able to use the word "Greek", "Hellen" or "Armenian" a single time? This is obviously a deliberate attempt to disconnect Greeks and Armenians from their own historical artifacts.

The truth is that a very large number of Turks have severe inferiority complex which stems from their identity crisis. They have no real identity, they are a mixed bag of non-Turk peoples genetically and culturally, and even their so-called Altaic language is mostly Arabic and Farsi. All the monuments they take pride in (even their mosques and mausoleums) were designed and built by Greeks and Armenians for the most part, even throughout Ottoman times. All of this is fine with me—but when they try to erase the name of Greeks and Armenians from their own lands and monuments, that’s when it becomes a problem.

[hipeter924]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Please tell me if you see the word "Armenian" or "Greek" anywhere on Turkey's official tourism site, because I don't: http://www.tourismturkey.org/03-00-M...MS&Sub=EASTERN

Everything is "Turkish", "Anatolian", "Seljuk", "Ottoman", etc. They talk about Homer, Alexander, etc, without mentioning the word "Greek" or "Hellen". So many Greek temples and churches, so many Armenian monuments, and they weren't able to use the word "Greek", "Hellen" or "Armenian" a single time? This is obviously a deliberate attempt to disconnect Greeks and Armenians from their own historical artifacts.

The truth is that a very large number of Turks have severe inferiority complex which stems from their identity crisis. They have no real identity, they are a mixed bag of non-Turk peoples genetically and culturally, and even their so-called Altaic language is mostly Arabic and Farsi. All the monuments they take pride in (even their mosques and mausoleums) were designed and built by Greeks and Armenians for the most part, even throughout Ottoman times. All of this is fine with me—but when they try to erase the name of Greeks and Armenians from their own lands and monuments, that’s when it becomes a problem.

Cultural genocide is a well established thing worldwide, when nationalists feel inferior because a minority group makes something better than them they precede to destroy it or claim it as theirs.

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE]

Please tell me if you see the word "Armenian" or "Greek" anywhere on Turkey's official tourism site, because I don't: http://www.tourismturkey.org/03-00-M...MS&Sub=EASTERN

Everything is "Turkish", "Anatolian", "Seljuk", "Ottoman", etc. They talk about Homer, Alexander, etc, without mentioning the word "Greek" or "Hellen". So many Greek temples and churches, so many Armenian monuments, and they weren't able to use the word "Greek", "Hellen" or "Armenian" a single time? This is obviously a deliberate attempt to disconnect Greeks and Armenians from their own historical artifacts.

Everything isn't "Turkish", it does also mention a marvelous and unique collection of Paleolithic, Neolithic, Hatti, Hittite, Phrygian, Urartian, Roman, Byzantine works and Lydian treasures. Granted it doesn't mention Armenian or Hellene which is rather juvenile in my opinion but the whole site is so minimalist it's almost a joke. However it's a practice very similar to same way the Greek state just can't call bring themselves to recognize the "muslims' in Thrace as "Turks". Not to mention all the minarets knocked down in Crete but that's another story. Perhaps we should recognize all the AD artifacts as 'Christian' as neither the Greek or Armenian state existed at the time. Though I think the only thing that would make you happy is the words Armenian and Greek stamped on each artifact with a corresponding flag to match. Clearly your motives are driven from nationalism rather than artistic integrity.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE=Jos;288523]

Everything isn't "Turkish", it does also mention a marvelous and unique collection of Paleolithic, Neolithic, Hatti, Hittite, Phrygian, Urartian, Roman, Byzantine works and Lydian treasures. Granted it doesn't mention Armenian or Hellene which is rather juvenile in my opinion but the whole site is so minimalist it's almost a joke. However it's a practice very similar to same way the Greek state just can't call bring themselves to recognize the "muslims' in Thrace as "Turks". Not to mention all the minarets knocked down in Crete but that's another story. Perhaps we should recognize all the AD artifacts as 'Christian' as neither the Greek or Armenian state existed at the time. Though I think the only thing that would make you happy is the words Armenian and Greek stamped on each artifact with a corresponding flag to match. Clearly your motives are driven from nationalism rather than artistic integrity.

This isn`t the first time you try to change the subject of a thread. And it probably won`t be the last time either...

Anyway, as for the Muslim minority in Greek Thrace:

1) There are three Muslim minorities in Greek Thrace: Turkish, Pomak and Roma

2) These three minorities are recognized as a "Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty just as the Greeks, Armenians and Je_ws are recognized as a "Non-Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty

3) Greece is not forced to recognize the Turkish minority in Greek Thrace as a "Turkish minority"; and Turkey is not forced to recognize the few Greeks in Istanbul as a "Greek minority"

4) Turks in Greek Thrace have every right to call themselves Turks but don`t have the right to start an organization with the words "Turkish" or "minority"

5) Turkish organizations in Greek Thrace had the right to use the word "Turkish" in their organizations until 1983/84 but were forced to close because Turkey decided to recognize the occupied part of Cyprus.

6) Both countries punished their own minorites; especially Turkey considering that there are only 4 thousand Greeks left in Istanbul while there are 60-80 thousand Turks living in Greek Thrace

7) Greece has corrected many of its mistakes but there are still more to do to improve the rights of the Turkish/Pomak/Roma minority in Greek Thrace

8) Turkey has done nothing to let the Greeks who lived in Istanbul, Imvros and Tenedos to have the right to return

9) I rather be a Turk living in Greek Thrace and be called a "Greek Muslim" than being a Kurd living in Turkey and be called a "Mountain Turk"

10) And I rather not be a Greek living in Istanbul - it`s like waiting for the next pogrom to happen at any time

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE=Alexandros;288532]

This isn`t the first time you try to change the subject of a thread. And it probably won`t be the last time either...

Anyway, as for the Muslim minority in Greek Thrace:

1) There are three Muslim minorities in Greek Thrace: Turkish, Pomak and Roma

2) These three minorities are recognized as a "Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty just as the Greeks, Armenians and Je_ws are recognized as a "Non-Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty

3) Greece is not forced to recognize the Turkish minority in Greek Thrace as a "Turkish minority"; and Turkey is not forced to recognize the few Greeks in Istanbul as a "Greek minority"

4) Turks in Greek Thrace have every right to call themselves Turks but don`t have the right to start an organization with the words "Turkish" or "minority"

5) Turkish organizations in Greek Thrace had the right to use the word "Turkish" in their organizations until 1983/84 but were forced to close because Turkey decided to recognize the occupied part of Cyprus.

6) Both countries punished their own minorites; especially Turkey considering that there are only 4 thousand Greeks left in Istanbul while there are 60-80 thousand Turks living in Greek Thrace

7) Greece has corrected many of its mistakes but there are still more to do to improve the rights of the Turkis/Pomak/Roma minority in Greek Thrace

8) Turkey has done nothing to let the Greeks who lived in Istanbul, Imvros and Tenedos to have the right to return

9) I rather be a Turk living in Greek Thrace and be called a "Greek Muslim" than being a Kurd living in Turkey and be called a "Mountain Turk"

10) And I rather not be a Greek living in Istanbul - it`s like waiting for the next pogrom to happen at any time

I wasn't changing the subject Alexandros, it's called using an 'analogy'. And I'm delighted Greece has made strides in improving the living conditions for it's Turkish (sorry, "MUSLIM") minority, keep up the good work even if there is more to do. Hopefully one day we will also have the moral fortitude to be as generous as our benevolent neighbors. But until the day arrives where Greece rectifies its own shortcomings may I offer a suggestion: people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, even if yours are smaller.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE=Jos;288543]

I wasn't changing the subject Alexandros, it's called using an 'analogy'. And I'm delighted Greece has made strides in improving the living conditions for it's Turkish (sorry, "MUSLIM") minority, keep up the good work even if there is more to do. Hopefully one day we will also have the moral fortitude to be as generous as our benevolent neighbors. But until the day arrives where Greece rectifies its own shortcomings may I offer a suggestion: people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, even if yours are smaller.

Yes, you were changing the subject and you have done that in other threads as well. Don`t play innocent now Jos. This thread has very little to do with the Turkish minority in Greek Thrace. We are talking about Turkey demanding their cultural heritage back and not about their Turkish minority in other countries. Geeeezz.

As for throwing stones in glasshouses, if I were Turkey - who leads in Human Rights violations in Europe - I rather be more tolerant to take criticism from Greece than vice versa.