Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

No need to be pessimistic? LOL. We are talking about HOW Turkey is NOT defining GREEK and ARMENIAN MONUMENTS for what they are. Talking generally about Greek and Armenian architects isn`t the same as defining these monuments as GREEK and ARMENIAN.

Sure everything is not perfect in Turkey and still there are lots of problems about every citizen's right and state's strict views towards minorities but you always try to look glass's empty side.

I found this news out as follows. Hope it would be useful.

http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/HABER/GP_526395

Visit by Bartholomeos at Küçükyalı Excavation Area


Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomeos visited the area of Küçükyalı Archeology Park Project. The visit was hosted by the Chairman of 2010 Agency Executive Board Mr.Şekip Avdagiç, Secretary General Mr.Yılmaz Kurt and Project Manager Ms. Alessandra Ricci from Koç University. The Patriarch was informed on the work conducted in the archeological area dating back to the 9th Century.



The visit realized on 20 August in the afternoon was in fact requested on 16 August during the meeting of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan with Community Foundations with the participation of Minister of Culture and Tourism, Deputies of Istanbul, Istanbul governor, Istanbul Metropolitan Mayor, Secretary General of the Istanbul 2010 European Capital of Culture Agency, representatives from various NGOs and writers while Patriarch Bartholomeos was being informed by the Directorate of Urban Implementations about the projects for Istanbul 2010 European Capital of Culture.



The Austrian cultural attaché, the district reeve, the imam of Çinar mosque and local residents also participated in the visit to the excavation area and laboratory center.



Visitors were shown some architectural artifacts, oil lamps, ceramic pieces, unprecedented Byzantine silver coins and an impress; and also introduced a tower’s ruins that had been unearthed during the excavation. A gravure from Vatican archives depicting the building was presented to Patriarch Bartholomeos by Ms. Ricci as a souvenir of the visit.



Istanbul 2010 Project Küçükyalı Archeological Park

The work on the archeological area dating back to the 9th century in Küçükyalı aims at remitting an exemplary urban implementation project in Istanbul. Carried out in cooperation among the Ministry of Culture and Tourism, Istanbul Archeological Museum, Municipality of Maltepe and Koç University, this Project wins the Architectural Prize of Turkey from the Chamber of Architects. The Project is presumed to connect archeology with urban design and architecture; and to promote social development and public participation with sustainable integrity in the area.



Archeological Significance

Archeological area in Küçükyalı was once supposed to be the Bryas Palace, built by the emperor Theophilos (829-842). Research and studies done between 2001 and 2004 claim that the area is home to the Satyros Monastery built by Patriarch Ignatius between the years 860 and 877. The vaulted monastery, cistern and water channels are considered rare examples of their time. It is presumed that the building was significantly large at that time so that it could easily be seen from the Prince’s Islands and the sea. It was probably a counterpart to a similar monastery in Vardonisi Island which once took place between Büyükada and Maltepe but later sank into the sea during an earthquake.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

I think you dont understand well because you have one way looking as the nationalist Turks that you criticized.

Oh really? The only nationalist Turk here is you! You tried to give a romantic picture of Turkey and then side-stepped by comparing the Armenian church at Akhtamar Island wich doesn`t have a cross with Suleymaniye Mosque in Rhodos which indeed still has a crescent by saying this:

Usage of churches as museum is another subject and relate with another topic as the mosque in Rodos island and Greece's approach to its heritage.

Where did I mention anything about the usage of churches or mosques that operates today as musems?

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Sure everything is not perfect in Turkey and still there are lots of problems about every citizen's right and state's strict views towards minorities but you always try to look glass's empty side.

I found this news out as follows. Hope it would be useful.

http://www.en.istanbul2010.org/HABER/GP_526395

Visit by Bartholomeos at Küçükyalı Excavation Area


Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomeos visited the area of Küçükyalı Archeology Park Project. The visit was hosted by the Chairman of 2010 Agency Executive Board Mr.Şekip Avdagiç, Secretary General Mr.Yılmaz Kurt and Project Manager Ms. Alessandra Ricci from Koç University. The Patriarch was informed on the work conducted in the archeological area dating back to the 9th Century.



The visit realized on 20 August in the afternoon was in fact requested on 16 August during the meeting of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan with Community Foundations with the participation of Minister of Culture and Tourism, Deputies of Istanbul, Istanbul governor, Istanbul Metropolitan Mayor, Secretary General of the Istanbul 2010 European Capital of Culture Agency, representatives from various NGOs and writers while Patriarch Bartholomeos was being informed by the Directorate of Urban Implementations about the projects for Istanbul 2010 European Capital of Culture.



The Austrian cultural attaché, the district reeve, the imam of Çinar mosque and local residents also participated in the visit to the excavation area and laboratory center.



Visitors were shown some architectural artifacts, oil lamps, ceramic pieces, unprecedented Byzantine silver coins and an impress; and also introduced a tower’s ruins that had been unearthed during the excavation. A gravure from Vatican archives depicting the building was presented to Patriarch Bartholomeos by Ms. Ricci as a souvenir of the visit.



Istanbul 2010 Project Küçükyalı Archeological Park

The work on the archeological area dating back to the 9th century in Küçükyalı aims at remitting an exemplary urban implementation project in Istanbul. Carried out in cooperation among the Ministry of Culture and Tourism, Istanbul Archeological Museum, Municipality of Maltepe and Koç University, this Project wins the Architectural Prize of Turkey from the Chamber of Architects. The Project is presumed to connect archeology with urban design and architecture; and to promote social development and public participation with sustainable integrity in the area.



Archeological Significance

Archeological area in Küçükyalı was once supposed to be the Bryas Palace, built by the emperor Theophilos (829-842). Research and studies done between 2001 and 2004 claim that the area is home to the Satyros Monastery built by Patriarch Ignatius between the years 860 and 877. The vaulted monastery, cistern and water channels are considered rare examples of their time. It is presumed that the building was significantly large at that time so that it could easily be seen from the Prince’s Islands and the sea. It was probably a counterpart to a similar monastery in Vardonisi Island which once took place between Büyükada and Maltepe but later sank into the sea during an earthquake.

I have already read that article. It doesn`t say anything about GREEK MONUMENTS BEING DEFINFED AS GREEK.

The only refererance to "Greek" you will find in that article is: "Fener Greek Patriarch Bartholomeos".

You got a little bit too excited didn`t you?

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

I dont want to argue with you because your reactions are childish and emotional.I dont post those news to be in argument. I saw them and wanted to share due to its conenction with topic,thats all.It is not about you or others.You also post whatever you want and if someone posts something that you dont like,you should learn to be calm.Being nationalist is like an insult for me and I reject this.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

I dont want to argue with you because your reactions are childish and emotional.I dont post those news to be in argument. I saw them and wanted to share due to its conenction with topic,thats all.It is not about you or others.You also post whatever you want and if someone posts something that you dont like,you should learn to be calm.Being nationalist is like an insult for me and I reject this.

I`m extremely calm. I just needed to wake you up. In some of the sentences I wrote with big letters to make you understand that the "romantic" picture you are trying to give about Turkey is nothing but false. When I pointed out to you later that the links to the Turkish website you gave doesn`t define GREEK MONUMENTS AS GREEK or ARMENIAN MONUMENTS AS ARMENIAN, you accuse me of being "nationalist", "childish" or whatever...

I really feel sorry for you.

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/940521

The crescent at Suleymaniye Mosque in Rhodos is still there.

yes Alexandros, I know the one, a mosque nicely tucked out of sight. But if you've ever sailed into Rhodos harbour you won't see a minaret visible, the've all "mysteriously" vanished long ago.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

yes Alexandros, I know the one, a mosque nicely tucked out of sight. But if you've ever sailed into Rhodos harbour you won't see a minaret visible, the've all "mysteriously" vanished long ago.

You should visit then Greek Thrace. You will find plenty of minarets.

Jos, you are in full attack mode today, aren`t you?

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

1) There are three Muslim minorities in Greek Thrace: Turkish, Pomak and Roma

2) These three minorities are recognized as a "Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty just as the Greeks, Armenians and Je_ws are recognized as a "Non-Muslim minority" in the Lausanne treaty

3) Greece is not forced to recognize the Turkish minority in Greek Thrace as a "Turkish minority"; and Turkey is not forced to recognize the few Greeks in Istanbul as a "Greek minority"

4) Turks in Greek Thrace have every right to call themselves Turks but don`t have the right to start an organization with the words "Turkish" or "minority"

5) Turkish organizations in Greek Thrace had the right to use the word "Turkish" in their organizations until 1983/84 but were forced to close because Turkey decided to recognize the occupied part of Cyprus.

6) Both countries punished their own minorites; especially Turkey considering that there are only 4 thousand Greeks left in Istanbul while there are 60-80 thousand Turks living in Greek Thrace

7) Greece has corrected many of its mistakes but there are still more to do to improve the rights of the Turkis/Pomak/Roma minority in Greek Thrace

8) Turkey has done nothing to let the Greeks who lived in Istanbul, Imvros and Tenedos to have the right to return

9) I rather be a Turk living in Greek Thrace and be called a "Greek Muslim" than being a Kurd living in Turkey and be called a "Mountain Turk"

10) And I rather not be a Greek living in Istanbul - it`s like waiting for the next pogrom to happen at any time

Good list, especially #5. Its no secret that the Turkish state will use a handful of Turkish settlers in order to lay claim on land that they have no business in. Its the same reason they depopulated Nakhichevan of Armenians and tried to depopulate Artsakh as well. Some Turks think just because 2 Oghuz horsemen passed through a land and took a sh*t, that the land automatically belongs to Turks, and that nobody else has rights on those lands.

At least Turks in Greece can use the Turkish alphabet, as opposed to Kurds in Turkey who cannot use certain Latin letters because they are not in the Turkish alphabet. Personally, I have never heard of a country where certain letters in an alphabet are banned at the pain of being imprisoned. But this is not a surprise when we consider that until 1991 it was illegal to speak the Kurdish language in Turkey. It shows how important civilization and culture is in Turkey, the same country who wants all Anatolian artifacts to be returned to Ankara. I'm sure they will take great care of those artifacts with no problems whatsoever, considering their world-class track record

And as far as I know, Turks in Greece don't have their mosques turned into "museums" where worship is no longer allowed. Akhtamar is a perfect example of how Turks will turn Greek or Armenian monuments into secular Turkish buildings where they can make money off tourists.

If the Saint's remains are returned to Turkey, he will probably cease to be a Christian Saint and will magically morph into a "Religious Philosopher". I hope all those letters are in the Turkish alphabet... oh wait, I'm not Kurdish, so I can use those letters since I have basic human rights

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

At least Turks in Greece can use the Turkish alphabet, as opposed to Kurds in Turkey who cannot use certain Latin letters because they are not in the Turkish alphabet. Personally, I have never heard of a country where certain letters in an alphabet are banned at the pain of being imprisoned. But this is not a surprise when we consider that until 1991 it was illegal to speak the Kurdish language in Turkey.

Your behind the times. Kurdish can legally be used in print and digital media in throughout Turkey.

As for certain letters of the alphabet, exactly what are you referring to? Is it your expectation that Turkey should allow unrecognisable characters in birth certificates and other official government documents? Out of curiousity, can I use Chinese, Armenia, Greek characters/letters to register a birth certificate or other official document in the US, UK, Canada etc?

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Your behind the times. Kurdish can legally be used in print and digital media in throughout Turkey.

It was very recently when Kurds were allowed to speak their language, and it was mainly because of external European pressure on Turkey, not something that happened from within. If it wasn't for the European Union, Kurds would still be Mountain Turks.

As for certain letters of the alphabet, exactly what are you referring to? Is it your expectation that Turkey should allow unrecognisable characters in birth certificates and other official government documents? Out of curiousity, can I use Chinese, Armenia, Greek characters/letters to register a birth certificate or other official document in the US, UK, Canada etc?

I remember reading a news article from BBC a year or two ago about Kurdish protesters being arrested because their signs used Latin letters which are not part of the Turkish alphabet (w,x,q). I can't find the article for some reason, but here is another one: http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_..._news%5D=33323

The Public Prosecutor in the city of Gaziantep in the predominantly Kurdish southeast of Turkey recently ordered the confiscation of the January 17 edition of a local newspaper called Coban Atesi. The newspaper’s offence was to publish a short biography and a few poems by a Kurdish writer and to write his name, in the modified Latin alphabet used by Kurds, as Abdula Pesew. Twenty-one people associated with the newspaper were then charged under Article 222 of the Turkish Penal Code, which makes its an offense to violate Law No. 671 of 1925 in which Ataturk ordered that henceforth the Turkish language would be written in a modified Latin alphabet rather than the Arabic script that had been used previously. However, unlike the one used for Kurdish, Ataturk’s modified Latin alphabet did not include the letter “w.” If found guilty, the defendants face the prospect of a jail term (Bianet, January 22).

Prosecutions of Kurds for using the letter “w” are nothing new. There are already several ongoing cases against other Kurdish writers that were initiated in 2007. However, the Turkish authorities have been curiously selective in their application of Article 222. After all, every official website in Turkey, including the one of the Justice Ministry that oversees all courts, has the letter “w” in its web address.

There is still the banning of YouTube in Turkey on numerous occasions, as well as the regular arrests of Kurdish politicians and intellectuals, and many laws that ban freedom of expression among other things. Bottom line is that Turkey is in a league of its own when it comes to human rights abuses.