Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE]

...Bottom line is that Turkey is in a league of its own when it comes to human rights abuses.

That's based purely on your own preconceived prejudices. Refer to the following report. You'll discover that Turkey is somewhat middle of the road in terms of rights, not great but definitely not in a league of its own. Far better than Armenia anyway.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/...WOW%202009.pdf

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

[QUOTE=Jos;288911]

That's based purely on your own preconceived prejudices. Refer to the following report. You'll discover that Turkey is somewhat middle of the road in terms of rights, not great but definitely not in a league of its own. Far better than Armenia anyway.

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/...WOW%202009.pdf

Considering that Armenia is a pretty young Republic, I think they are doing pretty well.

[hipeter924]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

The link given is broken.

[Jos]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

The link given is broken.

try this one:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/...WOW%202009.pdf

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

That's based purely on your own preconceived prejudices. Refer to the following report. You'll discover that Turkey is somewhat middle of the road in terms of rights, not great but definitely not in a league of its own. Far better than Armenia anyway.

I love it when reports don't show any of the reasoning behind the individual ratings, just the ratings themselves.

Lets put aside the condition of prisoners, treatment of soldiers in the army, destruction of thousands of Kurdish villages throughout the years, genocide of the indigenous christian population, etc... How many unsolved murders and assassinations have there been in Turkey recently? How many intellectuals does Turkey bring to trial for thought crimes every year? How many politicians get arrested every year on trumped-up charges? How much state-sponsored historical revisionism takes place? Quite a bit in all categories I'm afraid.

Armenia has none of these problems. Armenia's main problem is corruption, typical during nation-building and nothing beyond what goes on in developed countries. Nothing out of the ordinary. Politicians don't get detained, people don't go on trial for gossiping or expressing themselves, websites don't get banned, there is no constant talk of state-sponsored assassinations and state-sponsored coups, etc. There is no history of genocide or immense massacres, repression of all other ethnic groups, there is no widespread idol worship (Ataturk), and most importantly, there is no history of military domination over the political sphere.

There is also the issue that the few real reforms that Turkey DID implement (legalizing Kurdish for example) were due to external pressure mostly from Europe. Thats a significant point.

Also, Turkey has been a state much longer and has most of its borders open, as opposed to Armenia which has 80% of its borders shut down and faces an active military threat from a much larger country. Even still, Armenia has not committed a fraction of the abuses that Turkey has.

To top it off, Freedomhouse gets most of its funding from the U.S. State Department, which is Turkey's #1 ally. They have made no secret of that fact and its not the first time they're sugar-coating their ally's human rights abuses. Thats why I wouldn't put much weight on this report, along with the dubious reasoning they used.

[garod]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Speculation ends on Van's Holy Cross Church

The Culture and Tourism Ministry ends speculation about the historical Surp Haç (Holy Cross) Church on Akdamar Island in Van. Officials from the ministry say the church will be opened for prayer and a cross will be placed on the roof by September 2010

Renovation of the historical Surp Haç (Holy Cross) Church on Akdamar Island in the eastern district of Van helped begin the normalization process between Turkey and Armenia, but the church remains a topic of considerable debate.

The Armenian church was renovated and opened as a museum in 2007 by former Culture Minister Atilla Koç; since then, debate has centered on whether a cross would be placed atop the building’s dome and whether the church would once again be opened for prayer.

Buildings designated as museums are not allowed to host religious services under Turkish law.

Current Culture Minister Ertuğrul Günay has told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review that the ministry is making the final legal arrangements to allow the church to open for prayer once a year.

Last week, however, daily Milliyet and other Turkish newspapers announced that the ministry was no longer considering opening Surp Haç for prayer. The announcement naturally attracted the interest of Armenian media and the Armenian diaspora as well.

‘The information is old; preparations are at the final level’

The Daily News spoke to ministry officials to get the latest developments about the historical church. Denying last week’s news story, the officials said the church would be opened for prayer in September 2010 with a cross on the building’s roof. According to the ministry sources, Milliyet’s story was based on old information; in fact, they said, the legal preparations for opening the church to prayer are continuing rapidly.

Disappointment caused by museum status

Günay said there are obstacles to churches in addition to Surp Haç being opened for prayer, adding that the ministry is handling the legal arrangements very carefully to prevent similar difficulties in the future.

The church has symbolic importance in the normalization process between Turkey and Armenia. Although it is commonly believed that Armenian-Turkish dialogue began with the World Cup Qualifier between the two countries’ national teams in 2008, the actual process began with the initial renovation of Surp Haç.

Former minister Koç contacted Gagik Gürciyan, the deputy culture minister of Armenia at that time, to provide experts from Armenia to come to Turkey to inspect the church. Despite the closed borders between the two countries, Turkish and Armenian experts have engaged in a coordinated effort aimed at restoring Surp Haç.

Leaving the church without a cross and opening it as a museum, however, disappointed the Armenian world. During the restoration, a replica of the original cross was prepared by experts according to the traditions of the Apostolic Church. That cross was brought to Istanbul and delivered to Mesrop II, patriarch of Turkish Armenians.

The cross is still at the Istanbul patriarchate, waiting to be placed atop Surp Haç.

Source :http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...ded-2010-01-22

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Speculation ends on Van's Holy Cross Church

The Culture and Tourism Ministry ends speculation about the historical Surp Haç (Holy Cross) Church on Akdamar Island in Van. Officials from the ministry say the church will be opened for prayer and a cross will be placed on the roof by September 2010

Source :http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...ded-2010-01-22

Good news. But I will believe it when I see it.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Turkey demands back its "cultural heritage"

Speculation ends on Van's Holy Cross Church

The Culture and Tourism Ministry ends speculation about the historical Surp Haç (Holy Cross) Church on Akdamar Island in Van. Officials from the ministry say the church will be opened for prayer and a cross will be placed on the roof by September 2010

Renovation of the historical Surp Haç (Holy Cross) Church on Akdamar Island in the eastern district of Van helped begin the normalization process between Turkey and Armenia, but the church remains a topic of considerable debate.

The Armenian church was renovated and opened as a museum in 2007 by former Culture Minister Atilla Koç; since then, debate has centered on whether a cross would be placed atop the building’s dome and whether the church would once again be opened for prayer.

Buildings designated as museums are not allowed to host religious services under Turkish law.

Current Culture Minister Ertuğrul Günay has told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review that the ministry is making the final legal arrangements to allow the church to open for prayer once a year.

Last week, however, daily Milliyet and other Turkish newspapers announced that the ministry was no longer considering opening Surp Haç for prayer. The announcement naturally attracted the interest of Armenian media and the Armenian diaspora as well.

‘The information is old; preparations are at the final level’

The Daily News spoke to ministry officials to get the latest developments about the historical church. Denying last week’s news story, the officials said the church would be opened for prayer in September 2010 with a cross on the building’s roof. According to the ministry sources, Milliyet’s story was based on old information; in fact, they said, the legal preparations for opening the church to prayer are continuing rapidly.

Disappointment caused by museum status

Günay said there are obstacles to churches in addition to Surp Haç being opened for prayer, adding that the ministry is handling the legal arrangements very carefully to prevent similar difficulties in the future.

The church has symbolic importance in the normalization process between Turkey and Armenia. Although it is commonly believed that Armenian-Turkish dialogue began with the World Cup Qualifier between the two countries’ national teams in 2008, the actual process began with the initial renovation of Surp Haç.

Former minister Koç contacted Gagik Gürciyan, the deputy culture minister of Armenia at that time, to provide experts from Armenia to come to Turkey to inspect the church. Despite the closed borders between the two countries, Turkish and Armenian experts have engaged in a coordinated effort aimed at restoring Surp Haç.

Leaving the church without a cross and opening it as a museum, however, disappointed the Armenian world. During the restoration, a replica of the original cross was prepared by experts according to the traditions of the Apostolic Church. That cross was brought to Istanbul and delivered to Mesrop II, patriarch of Turkish Armenians.

The cross is still at the Istanbul patriarchate, waiting to be placed atop Surp Haç.

Source :http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...ded-2010-01-22

The church was not "renovated" - substantial sections of it were simply destroyed and all the historical character was (quite literally) scrubbed from its walls. And all you Armenians do is endlessly whine on and on about some stupid metal cross not being placed on the roof. Before the unnecessary and destructive "restoration", anyone could pray inside the church if they wished, or hold religious ceremonies there. And do it whenever they wanted, without needing permission. Before the "restoration" it was open to all, and was a visual reminder of and survivor of the Armenian Genocide. Now it is nothing.