“Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Don't forget the Food Network! I don't think that there are homosexuals there since it's all about the food.

[Crissy]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

yep, there's a heavy idiocy-agenda on TV that's for sure, starting from pop culture channels, (E, MTV, etc) and ending with 'so-called' news channels that breed a nation of brain dead blind empathisers and head-nodders. Only decent channels are pbs and playboy.

I don't watch TV much, I dont have the time for it, and if I have time, I watch a movie or something, thanks to cable

Oh the other channel I watch is Fashion TV

[Anahita]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

The study I was referring to was published in The American Sociological Review in April of 2001 I believe, titled "Does the Sexual Orientation of Parents Matter?" by USC professors Judith Stacey and Timothy J. Biblarz.

Reference:
"Do Parents Influence the Sexual Orientation of Their Children? Findings from a Longitudinal Study of Lesbian Families" by Susan Golombok, Ph.D., and Fiona Tasker, Ph.D. in Developmental Psychology, Vol.32, No. 1, pp 3-11.

SEXUAL ORIENTATION OF PARENTS FOUND NOT TO INFLUENCE
SEXUAL ORIENTATION OF CHILDREN
First Study to Follow from Childhood to Adulthood Young People Raised in Lesbian Families

WASHINGTON -- The commonly held assumption that children brought up by lesbian mothers will themselves grow up to be gay or lesbian does not stand up to scientific scrutiny. That is the conclusion of a new study appearing in the January [1999 I think] issue of Developmental Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA).

The authors, psychologists Susan Golombok, Ph.D., and Fiona Tasker, Ph.D., of City University, London, England, note that previously existing research on the relation between parental behavior and children's sexual orientation "failed to produce empirical evidence to demonstrate that parents' behavior influences the development of their children's sexual orientation." In addition, all previous studies had involved heterosexual families.

Their study followed 27 lesbian mothers and their 39 children and a control group of group of 27 heterosexual single mothers and their 39 children from the time the children were around age 10 (1976-77) to when they were around age 24 (1992-93). Sixty-two percent of the original sample of children took part in the follow- up study. There was no significant difference between adults raised in lesbian families and their peers from single-mother heterosexual households in the proportion who reported sexual attraction to someone of the same gender.

Rest at:

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/glb/orientat.html

[karoaper]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

The thing about gay parades or homosexuality in your face is that just like a spring-action, it is a reaction to the years of closet accomodations and fear and shame of self. You abuse anyone or a group of anyones enough, and you'll have an accelerated and even somewhat frantic and forced resurgance and revival of said group. We saw it with race as well when marches, special interest groups and so forth sprang out for "struggle" of colored peoples. I don't know if this phenomenon is permanent, but I highly doubt it.

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Reference:
"Do Parents Influence the Sexual Orientation of Their Children? Findings from a Longitudinal Study of Lesbian Families" by Susan Golombok, Ph.D., and Fiona Tasker, Ph.D. in Developmental Psychology, Vol.32, No. 1, pp 3-11.

SEXUAL ORIENTATION OF PARENTS FOUND NOT TO INFLUENCE
SEXUAL ORIENTATION OF CHILDREN
First Study to Follow from Childhood to Adulthood Young People Raised in Lesbian Families

WASHINGTON -- The commonly held assumption that children brought up by lesbian mothers will themselves grow up to be gay or lesbian does not stand up to scientific scrutiny. That is the conclusion of a new study appearing in the January [1999 I think] issue of Developmental Psychology, published by the American Psychological Association (APA).

The authors, psychologists Susan Golombok, Ph.D., and Fiona Tasker, Ph.D., of City University, London, England, note that previously existing research on the relation between parental behavior and children's sexual orientation "failed to produce empirical evidence to demonstrate that parents' behavior influences the development of their children's sexual orientation." In addition, all previous studies had involved heterosexual families.

Their study followed 27 lesbian mothers and their 39 children and a control group of group of 27 heterosexual single mothers and their 39 children from the time the children were around age 10 (1976-77) to when they were around age 24 (1992-93). Sixty-two percent of the original sample of children took part in the follow- up study. There was no significant difference between adults raised in lesbian families and their peers from single-mother heterosexual households in the proportion who reported sexual attraction to someone of the same gender.

Rest at:
http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/arti.../orientat.html

So why are you cherry picking things to satisfy your argument. Why not quote the part that is damning to your argument?

"Significantly more of the young adults from lesbian family backgrounds stated that they had previously considered, or thought it a future possibility, that they might experience same-gender attraction or have a same- gender sexual relationship or both."

I also like this following line of admission:

"Daughters of lesbian mothers were significantly more likely to consider that idea than the daughters of heterosexual mothers"

But then they go on to somehow downplay the results with this sentence.

"...but there was no significant difference between sons from the two family types on that issue.

All things considered, what matters is how the thoughts of homosexuality were actually inserted into the minds of these children, saying that they were more like to consider it, which again goes to the truth of the matter here. In modernity, homosexuals are no longer born, they are produced.

[Anahita]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

So why are you cherry picking things to satisfy your argument. Why not quote the part that is damning to your argument?

I had that there, but edited it to see who would read the rest. How is that at all damning to my argument?

"Daughters of lesbian mothers were significantly more likely to consider that idea than the daughters of heterosexual mothers"

More likely to be open-minded and/or admit that. Modern times are no different. It is just that people are more open now to talking about sexuality. I think that is GOOD.

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

I had that there, but edited it to see who would read the rest. How is that at all damning to my argument?

Yet more things that counter what you claimed by cherry picking things to favor your case.

Take, for example, the question of the children’s sexual orientation. Whereas the original studies found that lesbian parents do not produce a higher percentage of gay or lesbian children than heterosexual parents, the reality, as Stacey and Biblarz point out, is more complicated. In one of the original studies, 25 percent of adults raised by lesbians (6 of 25) reported having a homoerotic relationship, as compared to none of those (out of 20 surveyed) with heterosexual parents. In another study, 64 percent of the adults with lesbian parents (14 of 22) reported that they would consider having a same-sex relationship, as opposed to 17 percent of those with heterosexual parents (3 of 18).

http://www.zmag.org/0026.htm

More likely to be open-minded and/or admit that. Modern times are no different. It is just that people are more open now to talking about sexuality. I think that is GOOD.

Please do not divert the argument by pontificating how society was back then vs how society is now, as that is a scope of conjecture. Deal with what is at hand, and at hand, the study which I cited, and which you tried to use as a counter claim to mine, actually supports what we have said all along, children who are raised by homosexual parents are more likely to be homosexuals.

[Anahita]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

What is 'my argument?'

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

Here is an interesting article with a similar study claiming that homosexual parenting does not in any way impact the sexual orientation of the children reared.

Do parents influence the sexual preference of children?

Warren Throckmorton, PhD
February 19, 2004

Gay parenting is at least a cousin to the contentious and current issue of gay marriage. Numerous professional organizations have expressed a common theme: The sexual orientation of parents makes no difference in the sexual orientation of children nor does the orientation of parents have any impact on any indicators of child welfare. For instance the technical report of the American Academy of Pediatrics supporting gay couple adoption reads: “No differences have been found in the…sexual orientation of adults who had a divorced homosexual parent (or parents), compared with those who had divorced heterosexual parents.”

Examining the research on this question, I have recently reread a study germane to the relationship between gay parents and the sexual preferences of children. While the study is somewhat dated, the results are still worth reviewing due to their relevance to current questions being debated in the culture.

The research by Susan Golombok and Fiona Tasker was reported in a 1996 issue of Developmental Psychology. These authors studied 25 children of lesbian single mothers and 21 children of straight single mothers beginning when the children were in elementary school and then again in young adulthood. Specifically, the authors were wondering if being raised by lesbian mothers would increase the likelihood of children identifying as lesbian. This study has been widely quoted to prove that children raised by gay parents are not more likely to become gay themselves. The authors acknowledge their results demonstrate that young adults are more likely to consider trying out and actually engaging in homosexual relationships. However, they say their analysis of the results do not support the idea that the actual sexual orientation of children is significantly different based on having a lesbian mother.

In looking again, I come to a somewhat different understanding of the findings. The authors reported the sexual orientation of the children studied in two different ways. They reported the number of children who labeled themselves bisexual or lesbian and then they reported the Kinsey rating of the participants. These ratings were assigned by the researchers. Kinsey ratings range from 0 to 6 with 0 being exclusively heterosexual and 6 being exclusively homosexual. Generally, ratings of 2 through 4 are considered descriptive of bisexuality. When documenting the self-labels of the participants, they reported two out of 25 children raised by lesbian mothers to be bisexual or gay. None of the children raised by straight single mothers self-identified as gay or bisexual. Statistically, this difference is unrelated to the sexual orientation of the mother.

However, when the Kinsey ratings are examined, there are four participants with Kinsey ratings of 2 or higher, thus indicating at least bisexual levels of same sex attraction. There is no explanation in the article for this discrepancy in the report. This suggests the need for a re-examination of the differences between groups. If one asks the question: “Does having a lesbian mother make one more likely to experience same sex attraction?” then one may reanalyze the Kinsey ratings to answer that question. Indeed, there is a statistically significant difference between the two groups when one compares ratings of same sex attraction.

What does this mean? Of course, one always wants more research to answer any question of this sort, but the data from this study suggests that having a lesbian mother does relate to a greater likelihood of children experiencing same sex attraction themselves. Thus, the same study often used to say sexual preferences aren’t impacted by parenting actually points to the opposite conclusion.

Is this finding a bad thing? I suppose that is a matter of perspective. Whether policy concerning gay parenting would be changed by a re-examination of the relationship between parenting and sexual orientation is a matter of how one values the potential increase in same sex or bisexual orientation in the culture. However one feels about the matter, it seems that the conventional wisdom concerning the relationship between gay parents and the sexual preferences of children should be revisited.

http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=39

[Anonymouse]

Re: “Love and Loyalty”: Marriage in secret, in an environment of fear

What is 'my argument?'

That homosexual parenting does not impact children.