Turkey 2 give back land?

[Armanen]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

We exist with our language and religion everywhere in the world except in our homeland. This says a great deal about Turkish rule.

We exist only on 10% of our Homeland instead of all 100%, but as long as we have that 10%, there is a good chance we will recover the rest, as we did in Artsakh.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

As I said Turkey was not your homeland.

Eastern Anatolia was never part of the Turkish homeland the way central, western, and to an extent southern Anatolia were, so in essence you are right. These other areas were generally assimilated into Turkic and/or Islamic culture. In Eastern Anatolia however, the demographics were different from the rest of the empire and there were always sporadic uprisings from the beginning of Ottoman rule all the way to the collapse of the empire. Turkey's main excuse of committing the genocide was that Armenians were rebelling, so this is a valid point across the board. East Anatolia was never fully incorporated into the Turkish yoke, even until this day, as the unrest there makes clear.

You wear a foreigners uniform (french) to kill your neighbour. You kill defenceless people with torture when men were in army.

This comment is just funny because it highlights the double-standard by Turks: Ataturk is worshipped in Turkey because he fought against the Ottoman army, but the Armenians fought the Ottoman army earlier than Ataturk and they get demonized for it in Turkey. Ataturk was not so 'revolutionary', he just copied what the Armenian revolutionaries were doing.

[lan ?]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

We exist only on 10% of our Homeland instead of all 100%,

Exist only %10 ? how it is so easy to say this, isn’t it. It also shows your strange illness, you can not put up with some realities and keep on being greedy everytime. So think please ; If turkey said “now we exist only on %10 of our homeland” and didn’t respect its naigbours' bounds, how could it be logical ? Actually, your problem is very simple; you were given a hope by france and betrayed your country in the past and been defeated, thats all, If you want to get angry with somebody , you should angry with france or russia who used of you in the past and today with your vote potential. Sorry but you are used to be used by others and can not realized that.

but as long as we have that 10%, there is a good chance we will recover the rest, as we did in Artsakh.

Of course you can cheer up yourselves by believing exist of this chance, but remember azeris aren’t turks and invasion of karabag can not be compared with any turkish land. But if you can claim this, not just claim, you can come into action, also.

[Virgil]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

Exist only %10 ? how it is so easy to say this, isn’t it. It also shows your strange illness, you can not put up with some realities and keep on being greedy everytime. So think please ; If turkey said “now we exist only on %10 of our homeland” and didn’t respect its naigbours' bounds, how could it be logical ? Actually, your problem is very simple; you were given a hope by france and betrayed your country in the past and been defeated, thats all, If you want to get angry with somebody , you should angry with france or russia who used of you in the past and today with your vote potential. Sorry but you are used to be used by others and can not realized that.

First, your statement only strenghtens the legal argument of the Armenian side that the Turkish Republic is in fact the continuation of the Ottoman Empire, meaning, any legal issues stemming from the Ottoman Empire can be taken up with the Turkish Republic and Turkish people.

Second, no one "betrayed" Turkey, Turks betrayed their minorities by exploiting them and blaming them for the decline of their empire, when in fact, the decline of the Ottoman Empire occured solely because the Turkish leadership pissed away resources in a attempt to sack Europe. The decline occured when Turks were licking their wounds after the second battle of Vienna. Armenians like all minorities were used as a escape goat for a inefficient government, incidently, a government which placed all the mechanism of empire on the backs of its minorities, namely, the Armenians.

Funny, the Turks also went ahead and betrayed the Kurds, a people instrumental in the genocide of the Armenians and were promised authonomy for their services, but were ultimatly betrayed and have lived a life of a servitude under the modern Turkish Republic. If anyone has a track record of "betrayal" it is the Turkish people, from Armenians to Assyrians to Greeks and finally Kurds, I would trust a Turk as far as a I can throw him.

Third, those lands did not belong to anyone but the indegenious populations living on them, your logic can be extended to all empires and with respect to all empires, no land conquered by any empire can only be considered "part of the empire" once the empire goes into decline, meaning, Turks claiming Anatolia is "theres", when in fact it was conquered in the name of empire is not a justification to both annex the historical truth (i.e. claim that Turks have a continuation in Anatolia when they do not and are just tent pitchers from the East) and ownership of the land (when in fact the land belongs to a broad spectrum of people and some regions historically and by decree of population, at the time, belonged to a specific group of people that had roots and history on the land).

Of course you can cheer up yourselves by believing exist of this chance, but remember azeris aren’t turks and invasion of karabag can not be compared with any turkish land. But if you can claim this, not just claim, you can come into action, also.

Last time I checked, your government claims they are Turkish, so, stop with the BS double talk, the stench of your wounded pride reeks. We whiped your Turkish cousins back to Baku and if anyone is a sore loser, it is you. Claiming that "bigones are bigones" and then turning around supporting Azeribaijan with military contracts, Aid, and a oil pipeline, first, only makes you look like a sore loser and, second, flushes your argument down the toilet. Essentially, this is the Turkish double standard, again, notice two things, the first being how when it comes to "their interests" the world should be liberal, and second, notice how they employ a double standard. The latter point is very important to understand and make a note of, essentially, the entire argument of the Turkish people rests on the premise that, "it was civil war and we 'had to do, what we had to do'", which is fine, but then 100 years later, Armenians "had to do, what they had to do", but in the case of Armenians, the world has to take a side, namely, the Turkish side. What kind of F'ed logic is this? Again, you peice of xxxx, I am satisified knowing that Artsahk (Formally known as a "Karabagh", how Eastern Anatolia is "formally known as "Armenian Highlands") will never be given back to Azerbaijan.

By the way, it is funny, this Turks sold out his Azeri cousin for national pride, very, very dangerous ideology for "mankind", truly a sign of false nationalism and honor.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

Its official, Turkish president approves law returning lands to religious foundations. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&type=politics

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

So think please ; If turkey said “now we exist only on %10 of our homeland” and didn’t respect its naigbours' bounds, how could it be logical ?

Go tell that to mini-Hitler Alparslan Turkes and his millions of followers in Anatolia who are not yet happy with all the lands from Istanbul to China, and insist that all Turkic populations form their own independent nations, such as the Uyghurs in China and Azeris in Iran, amongst others (Uyghuristan alone is much bigger than the lands that Armenians demand from Turkey, so you are just a hypocrite). There are more fascist Grey Wolf members than there are Armenians, let alone nationalist Armenians, so go clean up your gigantic mess before you complain to us about tiny Karabagh.

In fact, Karabagh was liberated almost exclusively from people living within Karabagh's borders, and this force had fewer soldiers than Turkey sent to Cyprus for their imperialistic game. Since Turkish Cypriots can't even fight their own war, I think you are better off volunteering for military service instead of wasting your time on an Armenian forum.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

I just cannot wait to see how Turkey is going to spin this one the next time AG recognition comes up in the U.S.

Their Ambassador to the U.S. will probably say something stupid like "we gave the Armenians their land back recently, this recognition issue is moot, we compensated them."

[lan ?]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

Go tell that to mini-Hitler Alparslan Turkes and his millions of followers in Anatolia who are not yet happy with all the lands from Istanbul to China, and insist that all Turkic populations form their own independent nations, such as the Uyghurs in China and Azeris in Iran, amongst others (Uyghuristan alone is much bigger than the lands that Armenians demand from Turkey, so you are just a hypocrite). There are more fascist Grey Wolf members than there are Armenians, let alone nationalist Armenians, so go clean up your gigantic mess before you complain to us about tiny Karabagh.

you are talking about a group of people in turkey, your claim never been a government or a formal claim and it is very ridiculous calling Alparslan Turkes "mini-hitler", but remember in 1993 and 1994 the person who negotiated with Ter Petrosyan is Turkes and your childish insulting of him is really interesting, I thin that you should study history a little and go beyond your prejudices about people, but anyway As I said you are talking about a nationalist group in turkey and their ideology, but Im talking about your government claims about so called "eastern or western armenia" think about please this situation isn't belong to a group of people its a government policy in armenia and this legal claims affecting citizens and all the armenians so this guarantee this vicious circle to last in the future. and this formal claims is really a huge effect over the people rather than some nationalists' claims. that is, your sayings is not related to what I said.

[lan ?]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

First, your statement only strenghtens the legal argument of the Armenian side that the Turkish Republic is in fact the continuation of the Ottoman Empire, meaning, any legal issues stemming from the Ottoman Empire can be taken up with the Turkish Republic and Turkish people.

Anyhow even if my statement strenghtens that or not, you always ready to blame turkey, don’t you ? what a kind of comment is this, its a nonsense!

Second, no one "betrayed" Turkey, Turks betrayed their minorities by exploiting them and blaming them for the decline of their empire, when in fact, the decline of the Ottoman Empire...

Yes turks batrayed their minorities by promoted them as deputy, minister and manager in some goverment services in Ottoman Empire in the past and somehow after living for 600 years, turks noticed that armenians were responsible for decline of the empire, yes suddenly turks noticed that its really interesting isnt it? Oh god…

Funny, the Turks also went ahead and betrayed the Kurds, a people instrumental in the genocide of the Armenians and were promised authonomy for their services, but were ultimatly betrayed and have lived a life of a servitude under the modern Turkish Republic.

Wow wow wow, kurds were promised authonomy, really? Who promised them? England ? frnace? Oh sorry france promised armenians so england must have promised kurds. But unfortunately, turks were responsible for this breaking promise. And how many kurds do you know in turkey, you think that you can know people by sitting your armchair and watching news on tv, but real life is different. there are millions of kurds in turkey who are police,member of parliament,minister, teacher...etc and some of them husband of a turkish women or some of them a wife of a turkish man, they don't live in a land which encircled with walls and there are so many people who have different ideas on different subject, therecan not be a homogeneous society in any country.

Third, those lands did not belong to anyone but the indegenious populations living on them, your logic can be extended to all empires and with respect to all empires, no land conquered by any empire can only be considered "part of the empire" once the empire goes into decline, meaning, Turks claiming.....

Yes, you are right and Im triying to say this, I made an imaginary supposing to show your unlogic about land claims. Thats all. As you said as your claims, these can be exended to all empires, so your land claims is unlogic, Tahts right.

Last time I checked, your government claims they are Turkish, so, stop with the BS double talk, the stench of your wounded pride reeks. We whiped your Turkish cousins back to Baku and if anyone is a sore loser, it is you. Claiming that "bigones are bigones" and then turning around supporting Azeribaijan with military contracts, Aid, and a oil pipeline, first, only makes you look like a sore loser and, second, flushes your argument down the toilet. Essentially, this is the Turkish double standard, again, notice two things, the first being how when it comes to "their interests" the world should be liberal, and second, notice how they employ a double standard...

As you said they may be just turks’ cousins but not turks, they are nasty azeris. And your karabag invasion is between azeris and armenians,as you know turks didn’t come into a military action for this problem in the past. But I understand your claims about making a relationship between your karabag invasion and turkey, because the possibilty of this relation make you feel good, but remember you fighted with azeris.its very simple. Of course turkey support Azerbaycan with military contract as you said they are cousins,but turkey weren't in a face to face action and if you want to see a loser you should make a research on pipeline of baku-tiflis Ceyhan and on Baku Tiflis Kars railroad, so the economic situation of armenia

[Virgil]

Re: Turkey 2 give back land?

Anyhow even if my statement strenghtens that or not, you always ready to blame turkey, don’t you ? what a kind of comment is this, its a nonsense!

You claimed that "Armenians betrayed Turks" and therefore, essentially, the modern republic is absolved from consequences, however, if indeed what you are saying is "fact" and one can prove that the Ottoman Republic was indeed guilty of genocide and war crimes (which they are), then it is only reasonable to assume that the modern republic is indeed the continuation of the Ottoman Empire.

Yes turks batrayed their minorities by promoted them as deputy, minister and manager in some goverment services in Ottoman Empire in the past and somehow after living for 600 years, turks noticed that armenians were responsible for decline of the empire, yes suddenly turks noticed that its really interesting isnt it? Oh god…

First, I have heard this argument before and this xxxx does not fly here, the bottomline is "you did not promote them", but the the "them" constituted a fraction of the population and the only reason "you promoted them" is that the mechanisms of your empire were placed on the back of your minorities. For the most part, most of "them" were servents, not "equal oppurtunity workers".

Second, yes, your government and people did believe that Armenians (in general, all Christians, but specifically, Armenians) were responsible for the decline of the empire, this was the propaganda feed to the masses. I am not going to sit here discuss dates, we are beyond this, but your argument still does not make any sense in terms of the logic of empire. Prior to the WWI, under the Sultan Abdul Hamid II, Armenians were targeted and the beginnings of a genocide were evident because he (Sultan) thought the Armenians were collaborating with the Russians. Again, this has been explained so many times, you just need to accept the fact that you committed a genocide and move on.

And let me just defend this collaboration by, again, highlighting the fact that Christians were indeed mistreated, especially the Armenians. It is well documented that the Ottoman Empire had not contempt for Christians, just the fact that the Janissary was comprised of Christian men stolen from Christian villages, neutered, and raised as Muslims, goes to show the disregard for Christian lives under the Ottoman Empire. You can use technicalities and your dependency on the minorities to "hide" the truth with sound bites, but the truth is, Christians were mistreated, they saw a oppurtunity and a fraction decide to revolt, they had no other alternative but to remain slaves of the Empire, unless your small and intellectually lacking brain can come to understand this, we have nothing to further discuss.

Wow wow wow, kurds were promised authonomy, really? Who promised them? England ? frnace? Oh sorry france promised armenians so england must have promised kurds. But unfortunately, turks were responsible for this breaking promise. And how many kurds do you know in turkey, you think that you can know people by sitting your armchair and watching news on tv, but real life is different. there are millions of kurds in turkey who are police,member of parliament,minister, teacher...etc and some of them husband of a turkish women or some of them a wife of a turkish man, they don't live in a land which encircled with walls and there are so many people who have different ideas on different subject, therecan not be a homogeneous society in any country.

First, I am infinitly many more times more objective than you, you are just mad because I am right and now want to squerm out of it. The bottomline is that you accused Armenians of "betrayal" and I highlighted the well known fact that, in fact, Turks were the only betrayers in this scenario, they betrayed their miniorities (After 600 years of service) and also the Kurds (which they did promise authonomy to).

And, yes, you douchebag, Kurds were promised authonomy, this is well documented fact and you need to understand that no one promised them authomoy but the Turkish government at the time. You can again spin this the way have you spinned the other comments, but it only goes to show that you lack the basic understanding of empire and history.

Finally, if the Kurds are "treated" so well, why are they arming themselves to the teeth and want authonomy from the "splendor and paradise" of the Turkish republic? This is bulxxxx, you know it and I know it, stop pretending that it is "business as usual" when we know the xxxx has hit the fan.

Yes, you are right and Im triying to say this, I made an imaginary supposing to show your unlogic about land claims. Thats all. As you said as your claims, these can be exended to all empires, so your land claims is unlogic, Tahts right.

My argument makes a lot of sense, the reality is that as the Ottoman Empire went into decline, you committed genocide to make sure the assets remained with the Turks. My point is not to refute this fact, my point is to make sure your ignorant self understand that land under the Ottoman Empire never "belonged to the Turks".

As you said they may be just turks’ cousins but not turks, they are nasty azeris. And your karabag invasion is between azeris and armenians,as you know turks didn’t come into a military action for this problem in the past.

You Turks sure can spin story, no, stop getting out from under this, the Turkish Republic aided the Azeribaijan, a Turkish state. And if it is between "Azerbaijan and Armenia", then go tell your elected officials to stop funding the corrupt and undemocratic Azeri state. The reality is that Turks and Azeris are best of friends and their combined power was not enough to stop Armenian villagers from gaining indepedence.

But I understand your claims about making a relationship between your karabag invasion and turkey, because the possibilty of this relation make you feel good, but remember you fighted with azeris.its very simple. Of course turkey support Azerbaycan with military contract as you said they are cousins,but turkey weren't in a face to face action and if you want to see a loser you should make a research on pipeline of baku-tiflis Ceyhan and on Baku Tiflis Kars railroad, so the economic situation of armenia

Right, that is fine, you know you can be a sore loser and pretend that 4000 deaths versus 25,000 can only be "attributed" to the military incompetance of Azeri leaders, however, the reality is that Azeribaijan was not only funded and supported by Turkey, but Turkey sent over their best generals and strategist to aid them in the their military operations. The reality is that the Karabagh war was indeed a war between Armenia and Turkey, Turkey would have invaded to defend the "magically unrelated" Azeris if Russia had not threatened Turkey. You can spin the story any you would like, the world knows the truth.

As fars the "economic losses" is concerned, that is fine, all those economic ventures were not going to be contracted to Armenia anyways, do you honestly think that your government would help Armenia? When in fact it was the first government to close the borders with Armenia? The extent of your story spinning is just shocking.