Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

    Originally posted by Federate View Post
    Spitak jan, do you have a link that gives out figures for the Armenian population of Sharur and Sadarak or the figures of Armenian population per administrative division in Nakhichevan?
    Not exactly.

    According to Wikipedia (which is purportedly based on a Russian census from 1898) the Armenian population consisted of almost 30% of the population of Sharur-Daralagyoz region (Sharur/Sadarak/Vayots Dzor). I haven't managed to get my hands on a source that gives the census for each village specifically. The closest I have been to answer this is maps:

    This map shows the regions populated by ethnic groups, and since its date loosely coincides with the census' date, I think it's safe to assume that it's based on it. If we refer to this, we can clearly see that the Sharur/Sadarak regions were inhabited by Armenians.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sia_ethnic.JPG

    This map (from 1914) shows the a majority Turkic population, however, the fact that "Armenier" is written all over suggests that Armenians made up a significant population:
    http://www.coletta.de/kolonien/Die%2...1914%20xxl.jpg

    Of course, we must keep in mind that these maps show the majority population of the regions, we shouldn't assume that Tatars didn't live as a minority in the regions indicated as inhabited by Armenians. We must also consider that ethnic groups were often identified by religion at that time, and Turcophone Kurds were probably also identified as "Tatars." It's also possible that Armenian villages, surrounded by Tatar villages were excluded, and vice versa with Tatar villages surrounded by Armenian. More research has to be done about this. I think this information would probably be available to someone who can read Russian somewhere in this site:
    http://demoscope.ru/weekly/ssp/rus_lan_97.php

    This article is interesting, especially this part:
    In 1918-1920, as a result of two Turkish invasions, part of the Armenians populace (25000 persons) of the former Nakhichevan province (later – a district) was assassinated by the Turkish occupants and bands of Mousafats, and part of them was forced to leave their homeland.
    On March 16, 1921 the Soviet Russia and Turkey entered into an agreement in Moscow, which defined that Nakhichevan was passed to the Soviet Azerbaijan “with the status of an autonomous territory”. In the context of the international law the conclusion of the aforementioned agreement was apparently an illegitimate action: two states decided on passing the territory of a third state without the latter’s consent to the fourth state (Details in: Moscow Agreement www.genocide. ru)
    In order to give a legally acceptable form to the agreement, in the same year it was renewed in Kars (Details in: Kars Agreement www.genocide.ru) with the participation of the Soviet Transcaucasus republics: “The Turkish government and the Soviet governments of Azerbaijan and Armenia agree that Nakhichevan region constitutes an autonomous region (with its borders as defined in the Annex of this Agreement) under the protection of Azerbaijan”. It should be noted that the wording read not “the composition”, but “under the protection” of the Soviet Azerbaijan. It was beyond any doubt that Nakhichevan was an Armenian territory which was passed to the protection of the Soviet Azerbaijan deriving from the interests of the world revolution.
    Otherwise, how could an Azerbaijani territory be passed to the protection of Azerbaijan itself?
    The fact that province was one of the authentic Armenian regions is proven by the rich heritage that is preserved in the cultural centers of Nakhichevan. In the medieval ages dozens of cultural centers with Armenian schools existed in Goghtn, Jauk, Yernjak, Agulis and other regions of Nakhichevan province. The masterpieces of the Armenian miniature art and manuscripts are indicative of the high skills of the Nakhichevan scribes and painters. Numerous monuments of the Armenian architecture were erected. Many of them have been preserved and still exist in the gorges and valleys of Agulis, Ordubad, Vananda, Tskhni, Gilan and Bist.
    According to the statistics of the census in 1897, 34 ,672 Armenians lived in Nakhichevan (34,4%). In 1926 their number was 11,276 (10,8%), and in 1979, as a result of the Armeniophobic policy of the Azerbaijani authorities, only 3406 (1,4%) of Armenians lived in Nakhichevan. At present not a single Armenian lives in Nakhichevan.
    Last edited by SevSpitak; 11-19-2010, 03:35 PM. Reason: I meant "shouldn't" assume, not "should"

    Comment


    • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

      I think this book will hold most of the answers.

      http://books.google.com/books?id=WSl...page&q&f=false

      But we must consider that in 1918, the Ottoman Empire occupied large portions of the Caucasus, so our concentration should be in the year of 1919, when the Caucasus was free from Russian and Ottoman occupation (who drew borders according to their expansionist, divide-and-conquer plans), and we (Azerbaijan and Armenia) were left to fend for ourselves. It was during this time, from my current knowledge, that we had stable control over Sadark (at least), and probably even Sharur. In other words, the "volume 2" of this book. But I can't read it until I buy it, unlike the first one.

      Interesting points in that book:
      Page 235 (Foreign Minister Tigranian's report to the Armenian delegation in Paris)
      Page 247 (The Repatriation)
      Last edited by SevSpitak; 11-19-2010, 01:59 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

        I will admit, my statement, "exclusively Armenian region in the North" wasn't solidly founded. There were Tatar/Muslims living there, in large numbers as well.

        Comment


        • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

          Indeed according to Andersen's map, we were in full control over Sadarak and portions of Sharur. I don't know how we would be in stable control over these regions without an Armenian majority at such a turmulous time.

          Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

          Comment


          • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

            Originally posted by Federate View Post
            Indeed according to Andersen's map, we were in full control over Sadarak and portions of Sharur. I don't know how we would be in stable control over these regions without an Armenian majority at such a turmulous time.
            That's exactly my point. Keep in mind that one of the authors of this map is a Georgian. Azerbaijanis can't dismiss this map as "biased" since it's done by non-Armenians, of which one is a Georgian (who, if he's like other Georgians, surely has a political agenda against Armenians as well). Most maps made by this duo is for Georgian history, and that page is a byproduct of it.

            Here's a more recent page made for Azerbaijan, by the same authors:
            http://conflicts.rem33.com/images/Az..._Naxcivan.html

            One should read the entire page rather than simply looking at the maps.
            Last edited by SevSpitak; 11-19-2010, 03:55 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

              http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/socie...ancient_origin
              General Antranik (1865-1927): I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.

              Comment


              • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

                On one hand they Turkify everything they can put their hands on, on the other hand they claim Adam and Eve too (as well as Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Cyrus the Great and Albert Einstein, among the others) were Turks... it'd be hilarious if it wasn't tragically retarded :/
                'A mamma 're strunze sempre prena.

                Comment


                • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

                  I totally agree with you - Azerbaijan was originally a stolen Persian word meaning "protected by fire" - The Russians took a part of the Persian empire 150 years ago; within the Persian empire the Kingdom of Armenian existed and its lands were bigger than they are today. The fake country originally called "The Soviet Republic of Azerbaijan" was stolen Armenian and Iranian land. The Turks and the Russians then sought to "Turkify" the land and the people to try to change the identity of what was stolen. Even when you consider the name of Baku; it's actually a Persian word: Ba+Ku = 'Bad Kubideh' (wind blown city). The whole idea of The Republic of Azerbaijan being a country is a myth. It's for certain that the land was never Turkic.
                  I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

                  LOLz
                  -Sig

                  Comment


                  • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

                    The link below debunks Turkic claims to Armenian and Iranian lands through very effective humor:

                    http://iranianazeri.blogspot.com/201...zerbaijan.html
                    I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

                    LOLz
                    -Sig

                    Comment


                    • Re: And the Fraud Had a Name, Azerbaijan: the Real, the Fake and the Absurd

                      Originally posted by Odar View Post
                      On one hand they Turkify everything they can put their hands on, on the other hand they claim Adam and Eve too (as well as Leonardo Da Vinci, Shakespeare, Cyrus the Great and Albert Einstein, among the others) were Turks... it'd be hilarious if it wasn't tragically retarded :/
                      I want to see Azerbaboons explain why the ancient artifacts in Baku are all in Persian writing and not Turkic.


                      I <3 Armenians! They're the best!

                      LOLz
                      -Sig

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X