Immigration/Armeniafication

[ara87]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

Yes! And the same applies to Armenia. I don't know what "Armenians" (if any) Ara has seen, but so far I haven't run into "mongol" Armenians.

Armenians are impure, face it already, so far I've met naturally born red, blond(dirty blond), brunette, & black haired Armenians. I've met Armenians with dark brown eyes to hazel eyes to blue eyes. I've met Armenians with near albino white skin and Armenians who are so tan/dark they could pass for Indians. I've met Armenians with the stereotypical giant crooked nose, and Armenians who have a perfectly straight nose(with out a nose job). I've met Armenians with Caucasian eye shapes and Armenians with slanted/heavily slanted eye shapes.

And all these Armenians claim both their parent's are Armenian, and their grandparents are armenian, and their Great grandparents are armenian, but then again i guess they're all liars. Oh and by the way, the same diversity can be found within Georgians, Persians, Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Israelis, and so on

[Armanen]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

ara after ignoring the points brought up by Mouse and continuing to argue the same silly notion that because not all Armenians look alike, that some have "non Armenian" or slightly non "Aryan" features that therefore Armenians aren't that homogeneous, I'm starting to think that you may be a self hating Armenian?

I also saw your thread on AH, have you actually taken the time to read the site? Or are you just so amazed that Armenia's history is actually older than what the bs "academics" in the "west" would like people to believe, i.e. Armenians are colonists to the region ---> biggest horsesh*t ever!

[xcelr8Armo]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

are you trying to that that all armenians have Mongolian/Turkic/Arab blood in them

[ara87]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

are you trying to that that all armenians have Mongolian/Turkic/Arab blood in them

Many (not all) Armenians have one or more of the above or some other group somewhere down the line,

my point is that someone earlier stated that even if a kurd lived in armenia for a long time, and learned armenian, and became a christian, and changed his last name to an armenian one, and he/she had their children there, they still wouldn't be armenian, b/c there is a blood component factor.

All i said was that this shouldn't matter as many armenians have some persian, arab, turkic, mongol, etc. blood in them, just like many arabs have persian, turkic, mongolian, etc. in them and so on. All i was stating is that armenian blood isn't 100% pure and that it shares similarities with other middle eastern groups, so the blood component factor doesn't really matter

[jgk3]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

Sure we may have some similarities to other groups in the middle east, but the question is what kinds of similarities, and to what extent.

Our mix, is distinct. Our ideas on the boundaries of Armenian appearance, are very distinct to us.

Lets say 10% of Armenians have some kind of visibly non-Armenian aspect to them. Are you saying we ought to increase this to 20%? 30%? All in the name of political correctness? There aren't that many of us, there are many more of "them". And in a couple of decades, you could completely destroy our racial character.

As dumb as it may sound to you, we need our racial connection as Armenians. If we hadn't kept to our own kind for the past 2000 years, today we'd all be Greeks, Turks and Arabs, there'd be no racial backbone to uphold our distinct culture and heritage.

Native Americans living on reserves need to be at least a quarter native to get the status of Native American, they are taking measures to try to preserve some substance to their race. So why are we not allowed to criticize them? Why can't we all be entitled to mix with them and get the right to live on a reserve?

It's obvious, different races have different interests, and they have to take measures to protect their racial backgrounds in order to keep their interests alive, to produce for themselves and lead a distinct way of life.

So why should we not be allowed to do that?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

The Diaspora has done more for Armenia than you know apparently, fine they’ve sacrificed bits of culture and what not over time, but they’ve helped ensure the survival of Armenia. (Btw, what is there to move back for? Is there even enough jobs, housing, etc, for them to move back?)

This is a true statement; the Diaspora is 20% of the Republic's economy so Hayastancis and the Hye Hanrabedutiun better watch their step when they claim Diasporans "aren't Armenian". However, we must look at things realistically and say with a certain amount of credibility: there is no reason to stay Armenian in the Diaspora, even in Iran. The Diaspora is singing it's swansong especially in older communities like Worcester, MA and Providence, RI. I used to think that one could stay loyal to both your Armenianness and your country but this is not so - just look at all the Beirutsis who are radicals for Lebanon yet claim to be "Armenian" because they retain the language.

I will never be a "radical" Armenian - i.e. just pick up and leave my country of birth. However, I am making steps to retain my Armenianness.

This includes:

1. Learning proper spoken and written Armenian. If I know someone can speak Armenian I will try to only speak Armenian with them, even if they answer back in English.

2. Going back to the Church. My father introduced me to the Church and although he is baptized in it never stressed the importance of going regularly. Although I used to be an adamant advocate of atheism (first implicitly, then explicitly) I have come to realize the utter pointlessness and irrationality; "Reason" becomes the atheist's god. I can get into better, more precise reasons as to why I am not an atheist anymore, but that is not the thread of this topic.

The Church is the result of 1700 years of the collective efforts of the Armenian people. It is a primary example as well as a primary source of Armenian culture. It is unabashedly and unapologetically Armenian. I believe that God has led me to be a part of this - at least at this point in my life.

3. Being a part of the Armenian community. This is something fairly recent that I have started to explore. This sort of goes with belonging to the Armenian Church, but not necessarily. It means sharing oneself with other Armenians. I am not sure how successful my endeavor will be (seriously, how many Armenians - even immigrants - have been completely "Americanized"?) but I am trying.

4. Going back to Armenia. For me, this means trying to go to Armenia (to which I've never been) as more than just a "2-week tourist". For me this means staying in Armenia for a sizeable amount of time (1-2 years?) to see how life is there: is it sustainable, is this where I want to be? If quality of life is sustainable in Armenia then I may choose to stay. However, if I find out I cannot be happy there I will go back home: after all what does it really matter? We're all going to turn to dust anyway.

I’ve never heard the phrase before, actually and if I have I wasn’t paying attention, but basically to the effect, don’t mix your blood/don’t water down your blood, or at least that’s what it sounds like to me.

Even if all the Armenian Diaspora that move back were only 100% Armenian by blood, none of them could ever be 100% Armenian culturally, as they’ve been surrounded by non Armenian culture. How do you think this would not be just as bad if Armenians took in people of other races and Armenianized them?

The Armenians of the Diaspora who think that they are hot s'hit because they are 100% Armenian, yet don't know the language, are not concerned with Armenia outside of what it means in realtion to themselves, and are hypnotized by American pop "culture" are in fact to be pitied. If one takes a serious interest in the Armenian culture and what it means past, present, and future - those are the ones to be respected and nurtured.

You have heard it said, "Kich enk, paits Hay enk," but I say to you, "kich hye aryun m@ unink, paits hye enk"! We have a little Armenian blood, yet we are Armenian!

I will consider anyone Armenian who when asked, "What is your blood?" and says "Armenian", even if they have the slightest amount. I have stated this before on here - even when I was an atheist and was a proponent of America - I still never considered myself anything other than ethnically Armenian.

Many Diasporas maybe Christian, but many are not Armenian orthodox, and they will carry that with them, they will bring slang from other languages. They will also bring different slang, grammar structures, etc from their own versions of Armenian. It would change food, no Lebanese Armenian is going to prepare the food the same as a hyastansi, for example(but maybe that’s a good thing), they’ll bring outside political ideas which may not fly with traditional Armenian views. It would change music…….It would change everything, thus it would be like just like mixing 2 colors in painting.

Change is inevitable and should not be regarded as a threat as such. Especially if you had a bunch of Beirutsis coming into Armenia, I do not think they would change the culture that much. I think that they would revive the Western Armenian language and this would be a good change. However, they would have to abandon their attachments to Lebanon which I think for many Beirutsis would be difficult.

Also, although I consider the Church to be the apex of Armenian culture, this does not mean that Protestants and Catholics are not Armenian. I'm sure you agree with this.

While I know that by African American culture you mean more recently, but don’t forget when looking at the century as a whole, they’ve had a positive impact, especially on music…..and what’s wrong with clubbing?

African American culture was hijacked by the American music business. African Americans had a distinct, intelligent, and viable culture up until the past 20 years when the black culture was commercialized and homogenized. The artistic merit of black music (blues, jazz, even some gospel) and art (think Basquiat as well as other lesser known artists) is extremely high and surpasses most of what American white culture has "produced". It is said that this culture has been thrown to the wayside and the underground and replaced with disposable "snap music", "club music", "radio-ready hip pop". Even gangster rap was an artistic outlet that reflected the very real conditions of the black community when done in a non-cliche way.

As to what's wrong with clubbing: everything. The dirty w'hores and piss smell is a real indicator that clubbing cannot be good!

Well I think places like CA. and Lebanon, where there are plenty of Armenian churches, Schools, etc is also preservation friendly, especially Lebanon.

So were places in the North East. However, these areas were subject to "Americanization" and by WWII many Armenians had joined the American military - a sure sign of the assimiliation to come. However, I do realize that LA is an Armenian hub and is part of the reason why I am trying to transfer schools there.

[jgk3]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

race race race:



http://www.ketv.com/education/2783824/detail.html

[Kvas]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

I too have thought long and hard about this, and I believe Armenians are more European than anything. I say that the Armenians that don't look European probably have some sort of Arab or Persian ancestry that traces back centuries.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

Armenians are not "European." European is a geographic term that has changed over time, not an ethnic term. Armenians are caucasian, or "white." I have seen many maps that have described Armenia in "Europe" or "Asia", but this is irrelevant because boundaries and borders are arbitrary and change. They are not static or absolute, but change with the time as well as peoples' conception and consciousness.

[jgk3]

Re: Immigration/Armeniafication

exactly what he said, there is nothing geographically sound about the boundaries of Europe and thus it's borders are decided by different people and events in history.

In fact, indigenous ethnic distribution of "European appearance" well surpasses even the most generous of European boundaries. At the same time, you can find different regions of Europe that experienced different degrees of racial mixture with not-European peoples. The Mediterranean coast and islands, the Balkans and the Pontic Steppe come to mind easily.

The reality is, Caucasoid appearance is in no way bound by Europe's political and geographical boundaries, and every region in the world is prone to have its own degrees and mixes of racial qualities, so why not jump the gun and just call ourselves Armenian and stick to that?