Armenia and the information war

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenia and the information war

A dictatorship addicted to oil - their future is pretty grim.

Neither dictatorship nor oil make their future grim. Perhaps this particular dictator might but a good one would not and oil is free money i wish Armenia had. There is nothing on the horizon that would make for a grim future for Azerbadjan except for resuption of war and that is why it has not and will not happen.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

A dictatorship addicted to oil - their future is pretty grim.

So in other words "The Grass is always blacker in azerbaijan".

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

And no one thinks azeris are better off

A dictatorship addicted to oil - their future is pretty grim.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenia and the information war

And no one thinks azeris are better off

ROFL your hillerious!

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

The perception is that the grass is always greener on the neighbour's side. Armenians think Georgians live better off and Georgians think Armenians live better off. It's amusing.

And no one thinks azeris are better off

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

The perception is that the grass is always greener on the neighbour's side. Armenians think Georgians live better off and Georgians think Armenians live better off. It's amusing.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

The most important thing is that we never compromise on our independence. The independence of the Armenian nation in the last 20 years is one of the biggest achievements of the Armenian race and we have to fight in order to keep Armenia independent and free. That is why, while we can have good relations with EU (which we should), I would never want Armenia to be a member of the EU or any other such union as it compromises our independence. Our security concerns are naturally tied to the Turks. We have to make sure to always be on the side that is against Turks and we should never forget that the destruction of Armenia is in the forefront for both Turkey and Azerbaijan. Having Russia as an ally has possibly saved us from much turmoil and destruction.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Guys I have some serious questions. Now some of my questions might be because I am young and/or I do not have enough knowledge of the geopolitics of Armenia, but it seems difficult for me to understand how you guys attack Bell for stating things that seem common knowledge and common sense to everyone I have ever spoken to. So please, explain your point of view, and let me know what, if anything, I am missing here.

You say that Putin is a strong leader, that the corruption in Russia is because of capitalism, that is comes with capitalism. That however seems insane to me, considering its not that it simply comes with capitalism. Capitalism works fine everywhere else in the world, and corruption is not nearly to the level that it is in Russia and in Armenia. Yes corruption still exists, but to reasonable extends. The free market system is a proven superior system of economics that was promoted by Adam Smith as a means to fight monopolies and oligarchies. Furthermore, it is not like Putin is out there fighting corruption, making it a central part of his policy. If anything, he is fine with it and allows it to flourish. According to Transparency International, Russia is ranked 154th in the world in terms of Corruption. This ranking got worse under Putin. You say that he is a strong leader. However, does that include ending democracy or taking away basic rights. Does being a strong leader, being a "true leader: include denying people basic rights, by controlling the media, by allowing little opposition?

You guys says that he is going to lead Russia to prosperity, that Russia is on the rise. However, the data says otherwise. The population of Russia is expended to dwindle down to 100 million by 2050, the average life expectancy for a male right now is merely 62. These are not facts that show any optimism for the future.

There is often criticism on this forum of Georgia, and their western system. But the fact is that corruption in Georgia is much less significant than in Armenia. In recent years, in Georgia the the business environment has steadily improved, and corruption has steadily decreased, while things have moved in the opposite direction for Armenia who is following the Russian system.

So this leads me to wonder how am I wrong here? What am I missing?
How is Bell being a "hater" or anti-armenian by stating things that are simply facts
Yes Armenia needs Russian military support right now, but that doesnt mean it should simply roll over for Russia and allow the same corrupt and doomed system to take over Armenia. Just because they are good to Armenia right now, doesnt mean we have to accept and respect everything about Russia or its leadership. Just because they help us right now, does not mean that in 5 years they would not stab Armenia in the back if it proves strategically worthwhile to them.

Yeh you are young and like most the western propoganda has drilled it into your brain that "capitalism works fine all over the world". In case you have not noticed there is a world wide financial crisis going on all over the world in all the nations that embraced capitalism. I know my friend and the millions like him who lost their homes during this crisis do not think capitalism is working very well for them. The fact is capitalism is not good for humanity because it concentrates more wealth into fewer hands while leaving all others poorer and poorer. The middle class is being destroyed and many people have to work 2 or more jobs just to get by while people like Trump contimplate buying a run for the presidentcy. The demographic problems you mentioned in Russia are comon throughout western europe and they are not a "russian problem". Corruption is something else that you have a hard time understanding. Corruption in The USA for example is a billion times worst then it is in Russia or Armenia the difference is that it is legitimized. Paying a bribe to get out of the army or for a safer post in it is obviously corruption but what may not be so obvious is special interest groups paying dictating to the government to go to war so some oil company can make more money or because some Narssistic country in the middle east wants to be the only country in the middle east. Special interest is corruption on a level beyond anything previously concieved. Not only can these groups ruin polititians but you cant even get elected unless you buddy up with them in the first place. As for putin he is a hero for the Russians because he grabbed those robber barons who were undermining Russia by the ballz and squeezed the szhit out of them(Berezovsky and friends). He fought against attempts by the west to further undermine Russia and built a strong economy and military. Democracy and capitalism not only do not work everywhere but i challange you to find anywhere where they do work. The most effective system is in China which is a mixture of a command, capitalist, socialist systems. Perhaps the biggest flaw that i see in your arguments is the sources of your information. Like who says Georgia is less corrupt and Russia is more corrupt? Could it be a western source which is owned and operated by the same inerests that tried to undermine Russia? Anytime you look at information you have to consider the source! Russia has its own interests and they do not always cooinside with Armenias this is very true but regardless of changing intersests a constant that remains is that Armenia is in a strategic location which Russia wishes to control and Armenia is the only country dependent enough for it to control this means that Russia will protect Its interest in the region which means security for Armenia. Yes it also means Russia is not going to be trying to strengthen Armenia and it may even at times hinder its development to maintain control over it. This is the unenvyable position Armenia is in but one would be making a grave mistake if one forgets or diminishes the value of the fact that Armenia exists and continues to do so only because there is a Russian Army base there discouraging Turcky and others from attacking Armenia. Nothing is free in this world and there is a price we pay for our security. Now many fools will jump in and say we dont need russia we can do it on our own or we can just be friends with west and nothing bad will happen.. well this is all bs because Armenia cant do xxxx about the fact that it has 100million turcks around it ready to crush it like a ripe grape. Add to this the fact that these turks have far more influence in the west then we do and you will understand why the west cannot be relied apon. There is nothing wrong with being young or not knowing things and fortunatly we humans are equiped with a brain which is capable of a great deal of learning - how we use it is our choice. As for Bell one thing is for sure - that guy has issues. I dont know what those issues are but they are significant.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

All (most) of us here are products of the west, brainwashed through the news/propaganda.

To overcome this mind-set we need to think “outside the box”.
A question to ponder:

Why would the west want to determine/criticize the type of leader in another country which is competitor nation as far as geopolitics goes.
Do they really wand a stronger and healthier society as a competitor?
No different than attempting to decide the players to your opposing team.
The propaganda machine does it so skilfully to make it seem almost a logical expression.

In this joke is the West trying to be the Irishman?

During the time of the French Revolution an Englishman, a Welshman
and an Irishman were captured and taken to the guillotine.

The first man taken up was the Englishman. He was asked
whether he wanted to lie face up or face down. He chose face up. The
guillotine dropped but stopped short. The rules were that if a man
wasn’t beheaded at the first attempt, he was allowed to go free. So
the Englishman went free.

Next up was the Welshman. He also chose to lie face up, and the same
thing happened – the guillotine stopped short and so he was allowed to walk free.

Finally came the Irishman. He also chose to lie face up. “Ah ha,” he said. “I see what the problem is.”

.

[Mher]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Guys I have some serious questions. Now some of my questions might be because I am young and/or I do not have enough knowledge of the geopolitics of Armenia, but it seems difficult for me to understand how you guys attack Bell for stating things that seem common knowledge and common sense to everyone I have ever spoken to. So please, explain your point of view, and let me know what, if anything, I am missing here.

You say that Putin is a strong leader, that the corruption in Russia is because of capitalism, that is comes with capitalism. That however seems insane to me, considering its not that it simply comes with capitalism. Capitalism works fine everywhere else in the world, and corruption is not nearly to the level that it is in Russia and in Armenia. Yes corruption still exists, but to reasonable extends. The free market system is a proven superior system of economics that was promoted by Adam Smith as a means to fight monopolies and oligarchies. Furthermore, it is not like Putin is out there fighting corruption, making it a central part of his policy. If anything, he is fine with it and allows it to flourish. According to Transparency International, Russia is ranked 154th in the world in terms of Corruption. This ranking got worse under Putin. You say that he is a strong leader. However, does that include ending democracy or taking away basic rights. Does being a strong leader, being a "true leader: include denying people basic rights, by controlling the media, by allowing little opposition?

You guys says that he is going to lead Russia to prosperity, that Russia is on the rise. However, the data says otherwise. The population of Russia is expended to dwindle down to 100 million by 2050, the average life expectancy for a male right now is merely 62. These are not facts that show any optimism for the future.

There is often criticism on this forum of Georgia, and their western system. But the fact is that corruption in Georgia is much less significant than in Armenia. In recent years, in Georgia the the business environment has steadily improved, and corruption has steadily decreased, while things have moved in the opposite direction for Armenia who is following the Russian system.

So this leads me to wonder how am I wrong here? What am I missing?
How is Bell being a "hater" or anti-armenian by stating things that are simply facts
Yes Armenia needs Russian military support right now, but that doesnt mean it should simply roll over for Russia and allow the same corrupt and doomed system to take over Armenia. Just because they are good to Armenia right now, doesnt mean we have to accept and respect everything about Russia or its leadership. Just because they help us right now, does not mean that in 5 years they would not stab Armenia in the back if it proves strategically worthwhile to them.