Armenia and the information war

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

While some of the money gets wasted (embezzled which is totally natural it even happens in London),......

Embezzlement is not natural.
It is a serious crime with serious punishment and loss of reputation.

I cannot claim that it does not happen in England or any other developed country.
I have no doubt some may get away with it.

However the majority of cases would be found out because there are processes and procedures, checks and balances and also a transparent system.
Also there are enough honest people in the system to be a deterrent to the would be crooks.

I don't see the loans being used unwisely in Armenia.....

How do you see this.
Do you know how the nearly $3 Billion was used.

The expected return is very low. So don't worry too much bro.

How low?
Every single dollar borrowed has "very low return".

[Serjik]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I always take things lightly. Bro America is toast. They realize it and they are taking advantage of the situation until the time comes when they will cut their ties with America and totally join Russia. What they going to do put sactions on Armenia? No way bro. Wont work in the Kavkas. Bro Armenia is in no situation to be independent. Thats the problem with you diasporans you speak in very high eutopian terms without seeing what you are dealing with on the ground. Bro poor Armenia has no resources and its landlocked by enemies, Armenians needs to be in an economic block and the only natural one for it is Russian and Chinese led ones. Yeah bro look at Greece, Europe and America are raping it. Greeks are Armenia's closest natural allies and orthodox brothers. Their place is also with us and Russia. Maybe now they will wake up.

I am shocked how light heartedly you seem to take it.

For a starters when you join an “economic block” you do not become better or safer economically.
Your debts do not disappear either.
You cannot hide either.

Look at EU members Greece, Italy and Spain are good examples.

Look at poor Greece which has become an economic slave of its bankers.

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[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

When I was in Armenia my family invited a young man that worked in the finance ministry to our house. After a few shots of vodka he spilled the beans. LOL He said they are borrowing as much as they can to build infrastructur and line pockets because they are knowing that in a few years the whole thing is going to fall apart and Armenia is going to join the Russian ruble zone and free itself from the western debt. The loans get paid back by those under Western rule. Armenia is not under them. These guys in Yerevan are not straight arrows but they know what they are doing. Trust me bro.

I am shocked how light heartedly you seem to take it.

For a starters when you join an “economic block” you do not become better or safer economically.
Your debts do not disappear either.
You cannot hide either.

Look at EU members Greece, Italy and Spain are good examples.

Look at poor Greece which has become an economic slave of its bankers.

.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

When I was in Armenia my family invited a young man that worked in the finance ministry to our house. After a few shots of vodka he spilled the beans. LOL He said they are borrowing as much as they can to build infrastructur and line pockets because they are knowing that in a few years the whole thing is going to fall apart and Armenia is going to join the Russian ruble zone and free itself from the western debt. The loans get paid back by those under Western rule. Armenia is not under them. These guys in Yerevan are not straight arrows but they know what they are doing. Trust me bro.

You mean the Russian customs union? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs...tan_and_Russia)

The PM said though we wouldn't join it because we don't share border with Russia. Though I honestly hope we don't join any union, and keep the Armenian dram.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

What would you have suggested?

I have already given my point of view but I shall repeat.

Like any business before you borrow you look at how the money will be spent, what will be the return on the loans.
If its borrowed on behalf of the Nation then you state to the people where these funds will be used and what benefits will be obtained.

Based on promises and results obtained judgements are passed, through elections, financial reporters commenting, international praises etc.
In our case the money was/is used to finance IMPORTERS against local producers and exporters.

I am not against raising finance. There is no country in the world that does not raise finance.
What I am against is when the Country’s or the Nation’s future is mortgaged and the money is wasted inappropriately.

In the fragile situation Armenia is in now, and the world economic crisis which affected Armenia significantly, there was no other option.

It has nothing to do with economic crisis.
Armenia has been building its national debt well before then.

These are risky times in which we can not risk our economy to collapse and the economic situation in Armenia to get worse, as our enemies tighten their grip on us.

Nobody is tightening its grip on us. It has been as tight as they could, from day one.
They cannot make it any tighter because time has shown it is a failed policy.

Armenia’s future will always be risky due to the type of neighbours it has.
However Armenia has never been as “safe” as it is now, mainly due to its Army.

Our enemy's hope is that we destroy ourselves from within.
If we (the people) are not vigilant that could happen, due to corruption, incompetence, undemocratic governance leading to infighting etc..
Running a healthy economy is also one of the pillars of safe and secure country.

Indeed, the debt has to be paid by the future generations, and that is why, we, all Armenians, have to do everything we can to make independent Armenia successful and powerful, economically, politically and militarily.

I do not understand why you say we all Armenians.
Clearly results will be obtained based on the decisions of the decision makers.
They should be accountable to the people.
People have every right to protest if they see things are not as they should be.
That is how democracy works.

I have all the trust that we can accomplish this, and even more.

Like what?

[Serjik]

Re: Armenia and the information war

While some of the money gets wasted (embezzled which is totally natural it even happens in London), I don't see the loans being used unwisely in Armenia. They are going to the building of infrastructur. Economic commentator are fools and crooks. The econo crisis is proving it.

People fall in the as you say financial trap is when the loans have been used unwisely. True, but in the case of Armenia the loans were used to finance an unsustainable consumer boom mainly by supporting the value of the Dram at the expense of the local producer as well the exporter. This has been highlighted frequently by economics commentators.

The expected return is very low. So don't worry too much bro.

Not true. What matters is like any businesses, what is the expected return on the loan. Then one has to evaluate whether the expected return has been achieved or not.

When I was in Armenia my family invited a young man that worked in the finance ministry to our house. After a few shots of vodka he spilled the beans. LOL He said they are borrowing as much as they can to build infrastructur and line pockets because they are knowing that in a few years the whole thing is going to fall apart and Armenia is going to join the Russian ruble zone and free itself from the western debt. The loans get paid back by those under Western rule. Armenia is not under them. These guys in Yerevan are not straight arrows but they know what they are doing. Trust me bro.

Not true. They have to be paid back. When politicians say “Armenia does not have loan problems” what they really mean is, the expectation is it will have to be paid by future generations.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

..........

What would you have suggested? In the fragile situation Armenia is in now, and the world economic crisis which affected Armenia significantly, there was no other option. These are risky times in which we can not risk our economy to collapse and the economic situation in Armenia to get worse, as our enemies tighten their grip on us. Indeed, the debt has to be paid by the future generations, and that is why, we, all Armenians, have to do everything we can to make independent Armenia successful and powerful, economically, politically and militarily. I have all the trust that we can accomplish this, and even more.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Interesting link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt for comparison of world debt. Armenia's debt amounts to 56% of its GDP.

This is a ratio that is frequently branded about by politicians.
If you look at it closely it becomes clear it is a meaningless ratio.

If you compare Armenia with Luxemburg you can see what I mean.

To be able to pay external debt it has to export more than it imports.
Excess foreign currency to be used to service and ultimately pay off loans.

We know that the current ratio of imports to exports is about 4:1 against.
Foreign remittances help but not a long term solution. Not healthy way for society.

So the country needs continues loans to pay for this imbalance.

With increased loans the servicing costs increase.

Also remember the meagre income (relatively) Armenia receives has to be used to service loans
rather than be used an already overstretched social necessities etc.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Interesting link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt for comparison of world debt. Armenia's debt amounts to 56% of its GDP.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Relatively recent article about Armenia's debt.
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Armenia’s Increased Debt ‘Under Control’
Armenia - Finance Minister Vache Gabrielian.
30.06.2011
........

http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/24251722.html

Under control means as an example,

the house is on fire but there is no danger of the fire spreading the the next house (yet !).

When they say we are able to service the loan it means we are able to pay interest on the loan.
The question is what happens when we cannot pay the interest ...... borrow more .

Followed by crises and political price to pay to the lenders.

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