Armenia and the information war

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

The thing is Azerbaijan has more to offer to NATO than Armenia. Serzh just wanted to make a statement with this, and bring attention to it, in my opinion. I don't think though this will hamper Armenia-NATO cooperation.

Attention? What are we, attention wh0res? )) Armenia and Azerbaijan have cooperated with NATO fine and dandy all the time before this statement and Azerbaijan had more to offer in the past too and will continue to have more to offer until its oil reserves run dry. Everything is a constant except the biased and reckless comments on territorial integrity without the consideration of right to self-determination by the butchers in NATO.

I agree though, we will continue to cooperate with them (as long as such statements do not appear). But we will never join NATO as long as we have excellent relations with Russia. Our future is the CSTO. All we're doing is maitaining good relations with the West so we do not fall behind Azerbaijan and Georgia in this respect.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Yeah but remember that Russia is becoming closer and closer with NATO. NATO and Russia are no longer rivals, but becoming partners.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Yeah but remember that Russia is becoming closer and closer with NATO. NATO and Russia are no longer rivals, but becoming partners.

Well due to globalisation, every organisation is becoming closer and closer to each other. But for the time being and in the present-future, NATO and Russia will remain rivals as evidenced by the Russian-Georgian war and the existence of the CSTO and SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation).

The day that Russia joins NATO is the day Armenia will join NATO. And by then, it won't be a political problem for Armenia to join it.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Armenians should boycott this Russian company altogether to force them to either GTFO of Armenia or offer tours to Artsakh once more. Profits or giving in to Azerbaijani pressure, that should be their choice. I wish the government of Armenia caught up on these things and took action, like it did with Western Union a long time ago.
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Russian company stops organizing tours to Nagorno-Karabakh
19 November 2010 [11:20] - Today.Az
The Russian "Astravel" travel company has stopped organizing tours to Nagorno-Karabakh.

The Azerbaijani embassy in the Russian Federation had informed that the Astravel Company, located in Moscow, organized a 14-day tour 'Golden Ring of Armenia', within which three-day trip was organized to the occupied territories of Azerbaijan, Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry's press service said on Thursday.

The embassy of Azerbaijan appealed to the company's president Valery Loshxxxxsu in connection with this matter and explained that organizing trips to the occupied Azerbaijani territories is illegal.

Despite all sorts of pretexts of the Astravel Company, the embassy categorically stated that organizing trips to the occupied territories of Azerbaijan is unacceptable, and during such travels, the lives of the Russian citizens could be threatened.

As a result of work carried out by the embassy, Loshxxxxsu said that the travels to the occupied territories have been cancelled.


/Trend/

http://today.az/news/politics/76827.html

It's no more than what America does, forbidding by law American companies taking tourists to Cuba, and theatening sanctions or criminal prosecutions against non-American businesses that do it. In Britain, it is very difficult to find travel insurance for a visit to Cuba because America threatens to bar any company (mostly banks) providing such a service from trading in America and threatens to arrest employees of such companies if they have US-based branches. Evidently, the market for taking tourists to Azerbaijan is bigger than that to NK - so the market that makes the most money wins.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Well due to globalisation, every organisation is becoming closer and closer to each other. But for the time being and in the present-future, NATO and Russia will remain rivals as evidenced by the Russian-Georgian war and the existence of the CSTO and SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organisation).

Well, it's also due to the fact that the priorities of Russia and the West are becoming closer and closer. Both are keen at rooting out Islamic extremist as both have fallen victim to it. The rivalry is fading away very quickly (which is very good) and soon enough there will be trusting relations, and allies. I mean it was only about 20 years ago that both sides were ready to start a nuclear war against each other, so much has changed in this short time. Soon enough all the Caucasian nations will have to be grouped together, like it or not...

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

It's no more than what America does, forbidding by law American companies taking tourists to Cuba, and theatening sanctions or criminal prosecutions against non-American businesses that do it. In Britain, it is very difficult to find travel insurance for a visit to Cuba because America threatens to bar any company (mostly banks) providing such a service from trading in America and threatens to arrest employees of such companies if they have US-based branches. Evidently, the market for taking tourists to Azerbaijan is bigger than that to NK - so the market that makes the most money wins.

Indeed that is what is happening except in the case of this specific Russian company, I am not sure if it offers tours in Azerbaijan as well given how there is no indication in the article. It is only stating that the Azerbaijani embassy in Russia started barking and it eventually gave in under the pretext of "danger to Russian citizens" (is that a threat to Russia's citizens by Azerbaijan? Where art thou, Mother Bear?!). Though it could possibly want to enter the Azerbaijan market in the future but I don't see how they'd just stop these tours without a guaranteed penetration there.

BTW bell, very interesting info on Cuba. I did not know that the USA was that aggressive with the UK on Cuba. I find it interesting because Canadians seem to have no problem getting insurance and going to Cuba and they maintain great relations with the island.

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Well, it's also due to the fact that the priorities of Russia and the West are becoming closer and closer. Both are keen at rooting out Islamic extremist as both have fallen victim to it. The rivalry is fading away very quickly (which is very good) and soon enough there will be trusting relations, and allies. I mean it was only about 20 years ago that both sides were ready to start a nuclear war against each other, so much has changed in this short time. Soon enough all the Caucasian nations will have to be grouped together, like it or not...

Check this post by ZORAVAR.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Armenia and the information war

You seen to have such a complete ignorance of your own culture that it is hard to know where to begin.

There are no Samurais in today's Japan - there may be role-playing Japanese who for leisure purposes dress as samurai did, and know (from third-hand sources like books) a lot about samurai - but they are NOT Samurai (any more than the robed individuals who parade around Stonehenge each June are real druids).

Similarly, nothing that is produced in Armenia today can count as a real khachkar. The culture that produced real kachkars is dead. What is produced today is nothing more than ugly pastiches or lifeless copies. As for khatckars being used as gravestones - go to any old Armenian graveyard and what you will see is a pile of smashed-up real medieval khachkars that have been cleared away for modern graves that always consist of large rectangular plots headed by huge stone slabs of shinny granite enblazoned with photos of the dead.

You miss the entire point of what I said. I do agree, and repeat, that Samurai today are not the same as they used to be, or rather, they don't serve the same purpose. But the way of life of the ancient Samurai, including its teachings and techniques, have persisted in some individuals, in a modernized fashion, in the Japanese society of today. The truth is, they are the successors of ancient samurai, just like Kung-Fu students are modern successors of ancient Kung-Fu. I don't deny the Khachkars today are not exactly what Khachkars were back in ancient times, nor do they serve the exact same purpose. Maybe if I incorporate linguistics in my analogy you can understand better: We can say that French is a dialect of Latin that developed so much in the past centuries, it became its own language. It's still a form of Latin, but it is not Latin in the strict sense of the language spoken during the Roman Empire.

Cultural traditions evolve in the same way. True, we can't equate modern Khachkars with the old khachkars 100%. However, Khachkars are still produced in Armenia (and Armenia alone), using various materials (as opposed to solely stone like in ancient times) for purely artistic or traditional purposes, and doesn't necessarily have the same meaning it used to (religious rituals); much like a Native American will make a dreamcatcher for artistic purposes, without really believing that it actually "catches dreams." It simply becomes a form of art that acts as a basis for the identity of that person.

Additionally, Khachkars are known to tell stories through symbolism of abstract art, and there are still many people who know these techniques, and apply them on their wooden khachkars.

Finally, I wonder if you even viewed the video that Yedtarts posted. If I'm not mistaken, they show modern stone khachkars, made by a certain individual called Babik Vartanian. How can you call these magnificent pieces of art "modern atrocities," "ugly pastiches" or "lifeless copies"? How can you pretend that these masterpieces have nothing to do with ancient khachkars? Truth is, if ancient khachkars didn't exist, these wouldn't. So the only conclusion we can make from this is that the former ritualistic form of art that is khachkar has derived/evolved to this unique form of art we see today in Armenia. You can't degrade the unique art of khachkar-making to the level of ancient-wannabe Stonehenge druids.

You denigrate Armenians and Armenian culture because it is clear as day that you think we Armenians are stuck up and arrogant, and you do this by giving yourself an overly liberal "I'm not afraid to say the truth that hurts" image among the (according to you) closed-minded, arrogant crowd -- but that's not the right way. Although I commend some of your open-minded comments, and I agree that many Armenians are closed-minded, sometimes you go too far and pretend that your mindsets are the only objective truths, and that if we don't agree, we are being arrogant or "too proud." Although we both agree on the point the khachkar-making has changed, I don't agree with your stance that khachkar-making is extinct.

BTW, I do love how you exceed my existing stereotype of you. I bet you are the sort who hangs fake samurai swords on your wall, ninja-filled dvds, and has "Art of War" on your meagre bookshelf.

Clearly you need to rethink the stereotypes you have set in your mind, because I don't even have a single one of those things in my room, nor anywhere in my house. I make fun of my friends who do But I do respect, and am fascinated by Japanese/East Asian culture (which is why I thought of the Samurai analogy among the other analogies I could have used).

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Check this post by ZORAVAR.

Well he does make some points, but one must remember that even countries with historical tensions will quickly mend those tensions in exchange for economic prosperity. At least in the modern age. Sure Turks and Russians have had historical tensions, but will that prevent Russia from increasing economic relations with Turkey? No. Russia is going to do what's best for it, even if it means doing business with a country it historically has tensions with. And Armenia should not fall under false presumptions that Russia will look out for us and our interests not matter what. Though on the other hand imagine if Russia was historical allies with Turkey...there would probably be no Armenia today if that was the case. So it's very complicated with Russia, on the one had their presence has done us a lot of good, on the other and we should not be naive in thinking that they will always look out for us as such, and that naive mindset in my opinion has led to many problems in the past for us.

Lastly, Russia at the present day is much more weakened, as it's scope of influence is much smaller, and more importantly its economy is doing very badly. Russia like it or not may just have to jump on the West bandwagon or at least increase cooperation to keep its life line.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Armenia and the information war

This is really pathetic, but normal.
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Azerbaijan interrupted Eurovision-2010 broadcast after the victory of the Armenian performer from Karabakh

Broadcasting of the International Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2010 was interrupted in Azerbaijan, after the winner was announced.

According to the Yerkramas’ own source in Baku, the victory of the Armenian performer, Vladimir Arzoumanian, from Karabakh, became the cause of the interruption of Eurovision-2010 broadcast.

Azerbaijani music lovers were not able to appreciate the performance of the Karabakh Armenian as the winner of “Eurovision-2010”.

As NEWS.am reported earlier, Vladimir Arzumanyan, 12, from Armenia, has won the Junior Eurovision 2010 with his song “Mama”. The song contest was held in Minsk on October 20.

Armenia got the highest points from Sweden and Macedonia. Song contest featured participants from 14 European states.

Vladimir Arzumanyan, student of Yerevan school # 1, was born in Nagorno-Karabakh.

Original Article