Armenia and the information war

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and the information war

You are smart bro. I understand what your saying being allies but I am still worried. What if Turks make a deal with Russians and promise them everything for exchanging of Karabagh. Maybe this is very unlikely but it has happened in the past no? But after all Russia is our closest and you make a good point about Armenians working for Armenia from in the Kremlin. Let's hope this happens because we have a lot of our brothers and sisters living i Russia and many of them are very rich and powerful. I learned one thing in the last few years is that we cant trust America or Europe.

That is not something to worry about. There are various sectors in turkey that would like to see Armenia destroyed, but there are others who want to do business and increase their wealth. The government of turkey can not gain any sort of soft power dominance in the S. Caucasus as long as it has no relations with Armenia. There is nothing that turkey could give Russia which would cause the latter to forget about Armenia. I am speaking of realistic concessions that turkey would make, not absurd ones like turkey quits nato, lets Russia have bases in turkey, and buys all its oil and gas from Russia, that is very very high unlikely to ever occur and it would take something on that level for Russia to consider dropping Armenia. But then the questions arises, if things have gotten to that point, it means Russia has a serious geopolitical advantage over turkey, so why would it even need to make any concessions to the turkish side?

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Congratulations guys, this thread just passed 100,000 views

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Russian football players of Armenian origin deported from Azerbaijan

July 25, 2011 | 13:41

BAKU. - Russian football players of Armenian origin were deported from Azerbaijan.

Trainer of Azerbaijani football club Kyapyaz Mekhman Allakhverdiyev went to Russian city Armavir to invite football players into Azerbaijan, SalamNews informs.

The trainer invited from Russian FC Torpedo two football players to Gyandzha. However, he did not know of their Armenian origin. After the players arrived in the Gyandzha airport, State border agency did not allow them to enter the city. They deported the two players with Russian passports but of Armenian origin.

http://news.am/eng/news/68989.html

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Nice collection of Azeri arrests

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Congratulations guys, this thread just passed 100,000 views

Congrats and thanks for such an important topic Federate........and now that finally this information war against Armenia was recently classified as a national security threat by some government officials, I wonder if they have been following this thread.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Turkey: A War of Words with Armenia?
July 27, 2011 - 11:30am, by Yigal Schleifer
The Turko-file Turkish Foreign Policy Turkish-Armenian Relations
On the eve of a visit to Azerbaijan, it appears that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is turning up the heat on Armenia, calling on Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan to apologize for recent comments her reportedly made to a group of students, telling them it is their duty to liberate "western Armenia" (i.e. eastern Turkey). From Today's Zaman:

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev had talks in Baku on Wednesday.
Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said in Baku that Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan should apologize for calling on school children to occupy eastern Turkey.

Speaking at a joint news conference with Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev, Erdoğan said Sarksyan's remarks did not befit a statesman and called them a “historical mistake” that should be corrected.

When asked by a student at a literature contest ceremony if Armenians will be able to get back their “western territories” along with Mt. Ararat, Sarksyan said, "This is the task of your generation.”

Armenians attach great historical and cultural importance to Mt. Ararat on the eastern border of modern-day Turkey, around where Armenians are believed to have first adopted Christianity as an official religion in 301 A.D.

Sarksyan said his generation had fulfilled its task by “getting back” Karabakh, a part of what he called “our motherland.” Nagorno-Karabakh is an Azerbaijani territory which is currently under Armenian occupation.

Leaders of both countries have met dozens of times to find a settlement to the decades-long conflict but have failed to secure a peace agreement. Armenia currently occupies 20 percent of Azerbaijan's territories, including seven adjacent provinces populated by ethnic Azerbaijanis.

The Turkish Foreign Ministry also strongly condemned on Tuesday Sarksyan's remarks, calling the statement “very irresponsible behavior.”

Full article here.
In a statement, the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs took Sarksyan to school, saying his reported words were not befitting the president of a country. From the statement:

One of the most important duties of a statesman is to prepare his/her own society, especially young people, for a peaceful, tranquil and prosperous future. It is completely irresponsible to advise young people by provoking enmity and hatred among nations. President Sargsian's remarks do not serve efforts to ensure peace in the region.

Erdogan's Wednesday visit to Azerbaijan comes on the heels of a recent visit to Cyprus, site of another stalled reconciliation process, where he also used strong language to describe the conflict there, saying that from Turkey's perspective, the "time for concessions has passed." More in this previous post.

[UPDATE - The Armenian website Asbarez has an article up that actually quotes what Sarksyan said, which turns out to be a bit more complicated than a simple call to liberate "western Armenia." From the article:

A student asked Sarkisian whether Western Armenia, with Mount Ararat, will ever be united with Armenia.
“Everything depends on the young generation. Every generation has some goal to achieve,” said the President.
“The current generation defended and liberated a part of Armenian land. If the future generation makes much effort then Armenia will be one of the best states in the world,” said Sarkisian.
“Generally, the power of the state is not defined through its territory. The state should be modern, secure and prosperous. The Armenian people are able to achieve their goals. And they will if they believe in it,” added President Sargsyan.

So what was it? The President's words could definitely be interpreted as suggesting a "goal" of liberating Mount Ararat, but his last quote, which says the power of the state is not defined by territory, seems to suggest the next generation focus on other goals.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/63956

the stupid thing is Erdogan should look at Aliyev before talking about Sargsyan.

One of the most important duties of a statesman is to prepare his/her own society, especially young people, for a peaceful, tranquil and prosperous future. It is completely irresponsible to advise young people by provoking enmity and hatred among nations. President Sargsian's remarks do not serve efforts to ensure peace in the region.

That basically sums up Aliyev and all of Azerbaijani govt officials.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Erdogan wants another apology, this time from Armenia
By HERB KEINON
07/28/2011 01:18

Turkish PM says Sarksyan trying to "fill youth with hatred"; Israeli source: Who will ask Erdogan to apologize for occupying northern Cyprus?

Talkbacks (1)
Israel can take solace that it is not the only country in the world from which Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is seeking an apology: On Wednesday he demanded one from Armenia as well.

The Turkish news website Today’s Zaman, reporting on Erdogan’s current trip to Azerbaijan, quoted him as saying that Armenian President Serzh Sarksyan should apologize for calling on Armenian school children to occupy eastern Turkey.

RELATED:
'Turkey threats show lack of will to end Marmara crisis'
Erdogan: 'Unthinkable' for ties to improve before apology

Sarksyan, asked by a student if Armenia would get back its “western territories” along with Mount Ararat – an area of great historical significance to Armenians – that’s now in Turkey, replied that “it depends on you and your generation. I believe my generation has fulfilled the task in front of us; when it was necessary in the beginning of the ’90s to defend part of our fatherland – Karabakh – from the enemy, we did it. I am not telling this to embarrass anyone. My point is that each generation has its responsibilities and they have to be carried out with honor.”

The statement infuriated Turkey. According to Today’s Zaman, Erdogan said Sarksyan’s behavior was a provocation and an attempt to fill youth with hatred, which he said would lead Armenia’s youth into “darkness.”

“There cannot be such diplomacy. Sarksyan has made a very serious mistake.... He must apologize,” Erdogan was quoted as saying.

Erdogan’s demand for an Armenian apology comes just a few days after he threatened Israel with a “Plan B” – a further downgrading of ties – if it did not apologize for last year’s Mavi Marmara incident.

“What we see here is a pattern developing,” one Israeli diplomatic source said of Erdogan’s most recent demand for an apology. “Who is going to ask Erdogan to apologize for Turkey’s occupation of northern Cyprus?”

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s senior forum of eight ministers – a body known as the octet – met on Wednesday, but, according to government officials, did not deal with the Mavi Marmara issue because Strategic Affairs Minister Moshe Ya’alon was not present.

Ya’alon, who in recent weeks has led the Israeli team negotiating with the Turks over putting an end to the flotilla incident and re-establish normal ties, has come out strongly against an apology to Ankara.


In addition to an apology, Erdogan is also demanding that Israel pay compensation to the families of the nine Mavi Marmara passengers killed while trying to break the naval blockade on Gaza, and to lift the blockade itself.

While there is objection inside the octet to a blanket apology, there is believed to be a willingness to issue a partial apology for “operational failures” that led to the loss of lives, but not the type of apology that could be interpreted as taking responsibility for the incident.

The release of the UN Palmer Commission report on the incident, which was to have been on Wednesday, has been postponed until August 20 to give the sides more time to come up with an acceptable formula.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=231307

[gegev]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I am sure that Erdogan had an elementary school education at least. If so, soon or later, after accepting AG by USA too, he knows, that under international law Turkey would be required to return Western Armenia.

And in addition, inevitably paying a huge contribution. I wander if he really doesn’t know this elementary school a-b-c/manifesto, that is widely known in EU and worldwide.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Erdogan should be the one apologising, as his nation finished the process of cleansing and killing the people of the lands of Western Armenia. After all the wrong doings and lying, Turkey has much more issues when it comes to apologies.

[Davo88]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Indeed it should be Turkey apologizing and not Armenia because we only want what rightfully already belongs to us. Besides, Sargsyan's answer was quite vague and does not openly lay claims to Western Armenia. Good for us, though, if Turkey saw it that way...

However, I think that the question asked by that child (as well as Sargsyan's vague answer) was elaborated prior to the event and was asked intentionally in order to bring up the issue and irritate the Turks.