Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Thanks for the pics. I wish Zoravar would post his analysis of regional military developments.

Stay tuned. I will post something in the near future.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Visit of Minister of Defence S.Oganyan on a frontline in the northeast of Armenia. On May, 03rd 2008г.

[Army]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Is that land (the region) all time green or just only in springs?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Maps are not facts. You need to use libraries

And you are a Turk - so you have never seen a proper map and don't know how to use them. Unless you have a permit from your National Security Ministry, it is illegal for you to use or own 1:100,000 maps or better, same for all contour maps.
I've seen Turks go visibly white at the sight of a map. I've seen them try to read maps turned sideways, or upside down. I've seen them peer over a map for an hour, and still be none the wiser about what it shows. I've seen a supposedly professional driver (a Kurd in this case) go on a 4 hour hour dead-end detour down the wrong road because he was incapable of reading a map, even though the correct route was being repeatedly pointed out to him on that map, and the route he was on was shown as going under the waters of a lake formed by a recently constructed dam!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

And what is this suppose to mean? Are you here denying that in 1934 a land transfer creating a direct link with Nakhichevan took place? If so, than indeed you can put that statement into quotation marks.

There was no land transfer in 1934 to create a direct link with Nakhchivan, and the same land link existed when the territory was part of the Russian empire. Your "historical fact" is just a myth.

Blatant falsehoods peddled by Turkey or Azerbaijan are also always called "historical facts". I'm surprised you decided to use such a phrase, given its normal context is within those Turkish or Azeri lies.

I am sorry but if you cannot clearly see the marked border then perhaps you need some kind of glasses. Do you want me to outline the border in bright red for you? I can also post a comparative map of today's Armenian Republic so you can see how clearly the border joint is well above the present boundaries of Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic.

Beware of amateurs with their small-scale maps. Lord Salisbury put it better (when puting down some rabid pro-Turk interventionists in 1877), but that about sums up what he said.

Now this is indeed very poor quality map that you cannot differentiate any border demarcations and is nothing compared to the resolution and clear border markings of the map that I posted. Heck you cannot even read geographic destinations much the less see the borders.

The image is poor quality, not the map. The map is probably 1:200,000 maybe better. The information is there. If you can't read it, that's your problem. It just shows you don't know much about the area's geography. Unlike you, I've been there.

[Catharsis]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There was no land transfer in 1934 to create a direct link with Nakhchivan, and the same land link existed when the territory was part of the Russian empire. Your "historical fact" is just a myth.

I have posted 3 maps (including Scale: 1:6,100,000 ) that clearly show that before 1930s there is NO direct link to Nakhichevan. It is Nakhichevan by the way, and not "Nakhchivan." You, on the other hand, claim otherwise and as evidence have presented a very poor map by all standards.

Blatant falsehoods peddled by Turkey or Azerbaijan are also always called "historical facts". I'm surprised you decided to use such a phrase, given its normal context is within those Turkish or Azeri lies.

They are historical facts as affixed in the international borders prior to 1930s. Show me well readable historic map from an earlier era with the said "strip" as part of Turkey and not that of Iran, and I would take it as concrete evidence. As of now, the evidence is not on your side, of all things based on the said historic maps.

Beware of amateurs with their small-scale maps. Lord Salisbury put it better (when puting down some rabid pro-Turk interventionists in 1877), but that about sums up what he said.

Fine, lets say you are right, can you please provide evidence to support this? Again, the map you posted cannot be credited with being "amateur" or "professional" because of its quality. Historical source of the map would also help.

The image is poor quality, not the map. The map is probably 1:200,000 maybe better.

This is already a word play, I think you understood what I meant by poor.

The information is there. If you can't read it, that's your problem.

No the information is not there in terms of affirming or denying the border since it is worthless because of its resolution.

It just shows you don't know much about the area's geography. Unlike you, I've been there.

This is very amateur thing to say. What has "being there" in recent times has to do with history and the historical borders?

[Catharsis]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well your questioning made me more determined to find an extreme close up on the scales (as close as you can get with these maps with [inches] 1: 4,000,000) that we talked about. Although, I was more than certain in the maps I provided here is the close up from 1922 (The Edinburgh Geographical Society, Bartholomew, J. G., 1860-1920; John Bartholomew and Son) Turkish-Iranian border.

Since as you noted, you have been to this area personally, you should know the alignment with Karasu river and the village of Sadarak, which today via the said strip made by Turkey lies well beyond it.




And here is how the border stands today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/265nakhichevan-assr.gif

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

And what is this suppose to mean? Are you here denying that in 1934 a land transfer creating a direct link with Nakhichevan took place? If so, than indeed you can put that statement into quotation marks.



I am sorry but if you cannot clearly see the marked border then perhaps you need some kind of glasses. Do you want me to outline the border in bright red for you? I can also post a comparative map of today's Armenian Republic so you can see how clearly the border joint is well above the present boundaries of Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic.



Now this is indeed very poor quality map that you cannot differentiate any border demarcations and is nothing compared to the resolution and clear border markings of the map that I posted. Heck you cannot even read geographic destinations much the less see the borders.

Well your questioning made me more determined to find an extreme close up on the scales (as close as you can get with these maps with [inches] 1: 4,000,000) that we talked about. Although, I was more than certain in the maps I provided here is the close up from 1922 (The Edinburgh Geographical Society, Bartholomew, J. G., 1860-1920; John Bartholomew and Son) Turkish-Iranian border.

Since as you noted, you have been to this area personally, you should know the alignment with Karasu river and the village of Sadarak, which today via the said strip made by Turkey lies well beyond it.




And here is how the border stands today:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hevan-assr.gif

You really haven't a clue. You dare to use a 1: 4,000,000 map to "prove" your unproven "historical fact". Are you a kid or a cretin? I mean - you do understand that a 1:100,000 map shows more detail than a 1:1,000,000 one? It's nothing to do with the amount you blow up the actual map. A 1:1,000,000 map shows the same amount of detail whether you scan it at 4000 dpi or at 400 dpi!

[Catharsis]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You really haven't a clue. You dare to use a 1: 4,000,000 map to "prove" your unproven "historical fact".

Can you do better? Put up or shut the hell up. The maps CLEARLY show the border without the "strip" yet you are really mentally challenged or are playing stupid not to see an obvious.

Are you a kid or a cretin? I mean - you do understand that a 1:100,000 map shows more detail than a 1:1,000,000 one?

Neither, but you sure show signs of both, since you have more eyes of a bat than a feline. I understand the scale, and I noted it, still the border is VERY FINELY VISIBLE WITHOUT the land strip.

It's nothing to do with the amount you blow up the actual map. A 1:1,000,000 map shows the same amount of detail whether you scan it at 4000 dpi or at 400 dpi!

Then do so! Where is YOUR 1:100,000 map? Every single map I posted shows the actual borders before and after - yet you have provided NOTHING, NOTHING that even comes close yet you dare to speak of "evidence?"

[KanadaHye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You really haven't a clue. You dare to use a 1: 4,000,000 map to "prove" your unproven "historical fact". Are you a kid or a cretin? I mean - you do understand that a 1:100,000 map shows more detail than a 1:1,000,000 one? It's nothing to do with the amount you blow up the actual map. A 1:1,000,000 map shows the same amount of detail whether you scan it at 4000 dpi or at 400 dpi!

Sorry to step on your tail. A map shows as much detail as the cartographer intended for it to show. The scale is the ratio of a single unit of distance on the map to the corresponding distance in actuality. DPI is the resolution which has nothing to do with scale but does have to do with the detail of scanning.