Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[UrMistake]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Look from 1:10 how residents and army start fighting over Karen.
Does anyone know the reason why they were fighting ? Did residents not want to give Karen to them maybe ?

Our troops do not shoot at villagers and armenian soldier will never harm civilian , this is not what his mother family and our society teached him !

Live in peace , but like Jeasus hitted shouted and routed the traders from the holy house of his father , in same similar way we should remove that evil goverment of Baku , clean the parasites or be doomed forever by their hatred and barbarism .

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ջորջ Տաբակյան
.....Մի շաբաթ առաջ Բերքաբերի հարեվան մեզեմցիները խուճապի էին մատվել եւ փախել գյուղից ......այսօր արդեն սկսել են վերադառնալ եւ այս մեծ սպիտակ դրօշը կախել են գյուղի մուտքում որ պարզ երեվում ա Բերքաբերից......
Այ սենց ա իսկական խաղաղությունը......ազրբեյջանցին վախեցած եւ պարտված .......իսկ մենք նրանց կասենք: պահեք էս դրոշը Նախիջեւանի համար
Աստված քեզ պահապան Հայ Զինվոր.....արդարությունը քո ուժի մէջ ա ......Միայն! — с Mezem Մեզեմ 11 Օգոստոս 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=770464799643158&set=a.103551083001203.7448.100000389345743&type=1

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://hetq.am/eng/news/56053/reconnaissance-scouts-on-karabakh-frontline-tight-lipped-about-themselves-their-actions.html

Reconnaissance Scouts on Karabakh Frontline Tight-Lipped About Themselves, Their Actions
Edik Baghdasaryan

00:20, August 12, 2014

The "negotiations" with Minister of Defense of the Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh (NKR) Movses Hakobyan yielded results. I received permission to speak with a group of scouts. As a result of preventative action after exacerbation of the situation along the Karabakh-Azerbaijan Line of Contact, 7 of the opponent's men were killed and 5 were injured. I met with intelligence scouts at different sections of the border, at the military unit and on the frontline.

Two of them are preparing to go to the military posts on the frontline. The conversation is not moving forward; I'm unable to get them to talk — there's a wall. The boys don't talk and that's it; they don't want to describe anything. In response to questions about their actions, they say they were given a job and they did it. I then ask for their opinion about the armies of different countries; I ask about the best scouts. The boys begin to speak in snippets, but my efforts over the course of an hour-long conversation, to sway the conversation in their direction, are nearly fruitless.

Unsung Heroes: Orders Are Not to Write About Some Serving on the Artsakh Frontline
They aren't used to talking about themselves. Even their families don't know what they do in the army. Their names are never heard; giving them medals is not raised — they are like ghosts, neither here nor there. Though from time to time I would say that our conversation won't be published, all the same, it can be said that there was no conversation. Then at some point they said they have to go to their posts and they left.

Also participating in the preventative action with the scouts was Vahe Petrosyan, who is from the village of Angeghakot near Sisian. The only rank-and-file soldier in the group, he has been serving for 20 months. The boys chose him and he behaved as he should. When I ask why did you take a soldier with you, one of them says: "Well, we won't always remain; let them learn." How did he behave during the operation? "Very well," says the group leader and with this ends the conversation about Vahe.

Near the posts we meet the commander, Jalal Haroutyunyan, one of the best officers in the Armenian army. He is constantly in motion; he is always at the posts, checking everything personally. Speaking about Jalal, one of the officers described him as follows: "Doctors have to determine what materials our commander is made of. He doesn't sleep, doesn't eat, is constantly in motion, and runs in the mornings, but he always has energy."

I meet with two scouts in another section of the border.

Karen (names have been changed) has been in the army since he was 16. A deputy at the military unit introduced me to Karen and said he will give an interview. Karen immediately countered: "I have a fourth-grade education. What interview am I to give?"

"Education has nothing to do with it," I say.

"How does it have nothing to do with it? If I had an education, I would be a general by now," he replies.

"What is the Azerbaijani army's weak side?"

"Their weak side? That they're Azerbaijani. Really, they are not capable of having a strong army. You can have as many weapons as you like, if you can't use those weapons, what are you going to do with them? You know, killing a person is not pleasant, even if he's a Turk, but we are forced to do so."

Then silence. I pause, thinking he will continue, but he doesn't.

I think: when they say they "neutralized" a sentry it means they killed an opponent soldier. But we don't picture it; we don't dig deeper into the meaning behind the word "to neutralize"; we don't imagine that if they did it without a shot then they killed him with a knife or strangled him with their hands.

Azerbaijani Soldiers Abandon Their Posts at Night

"We entered their posts, they're empty — we were surprised. In the afternoon, there were soldiers there; they shot in the direction of our posts from there, but now they're vacant. There are 3+3+1 people in one post of theirs; that is, six plus a senior [officer]. And none of them are at the post. We went in the opposite direction, bypassing the blindage. The other wing of the trench was also vacant. Then we approached the blindage; it turns out they've gathered at the blindage from the two wings, not moving away from each other out of fear," describes Karen.

I ask, have there been cases where one of the members of the group didn't fulfill his task? Karen described one such incident: "In a job, everyone has his task to do — clear, calculated until the end; that is, during such actions you have to calculate all those possible scenarios that might arise. Say, something doesn't work out [as it's supposed do] during neutralization. A shot is heard; the entire process of the action immediately changes, everyone knows what he's supposed to do. Or, say, the way back is blocked. In this case, we know where and at what time we must meet at the enemy's rear. In short, everything is calculated in detail, with a dozen sentry scenarios. Any event is carried out by planning. But it never happens 100%. [Sometimes] it happens that you make a decision in seconds. Once, one of the boys had to wait for us farther away from the site of the action. He was to help if needed; if there wasn't that need, he was simply to remain on the spot. Then we saw that he too joined the actions, though something else had been planned."

"Did you punish [him] later?" I ask.

"No, what punishment? He said, it's like going to the spring and not drinking the water, how can that be?"

Then one of the men who remove land mines joined us. Ahead of the actions, their group had demined the scouts' path. Yura is an officer who likes to joke. I not having yet asked him a question, he immediately says, "I'm not married. I had decided to get married, [but then] things got mixed up. Let's see if I'll get married."



After the recent incidents along the line of contact, Azerbaijani authorities removed residents from seven border villages. For security reasons, electricity was cut off.

One of the Armenian scouts I spoke to said that the increased Azerbaijani actions were linked to the newly appointed Azerbaijani defense minister.


“He wants to change the situation. Now, he is strengthening the defense of their villages. They are building dirt mounds opposite the villages. Since we hadn’t responded in kind to them for such a long time they figured the situation would continue like that. That they would attack and we would merely defend. To be honest, we don’t have to purchase airplanes. Let them have all they want. We will shoot down those planes,” Samvel told me.

I bring up the question of the Azerbaijani advantage in terms of military equipment.

“They have many Turkish weapons. Their recon units have Israeli manufactured weapons. We have as much as our resources allow. We don’t have oil to buy all those weapons. Our weapons are a bit cheap but they get the job done,” says Karen. “We launched our latest action with new equipment. It really helped. Of course there is better stuff. But we work with what we have.”

“In their entire history the Azerbaijanis never won a war. The Turks have fought here and so have other tribes. But the Azerbaijanis have never participated in a battle in their history. But that nation has a peculiarity – to stab you in the back,” says the recon unit soldier.

“Did the unit suffer any losses during the operation,” I ask

“No”

“Does this mean you are very professional?”

“No. It means we organize well.”

“Did you receive awards for your latest operation?”

“Why? Do we carry out our mission just to get medals?”

“I was just asking.”

“Our reward is the security of the state. One of our buddies has four kids. Do you think he’s thinking of getting a medal?”

I asked the wrong questions and the conversation comes to a temporary halt. Then we talk about the oil pipeline and the chances of reaching it some 250 kilometers away.

“We could reach it if that was our order. We talk about it all the time. But it wouldn’t take long for them to rebuild it. It’s better to take out a platoon than destroy an oil pipeline.”

“After this latest round of preventative measures you’ve taken, what’s changed on the Azerbaijani side?”

“Fear has increased, fear. They fire all the time. Just like that; lighting up their territory. They’ve gotten so afraid that they have brought up armored equipment to their positions, to the frontline to buoy the spirits of the soldiers. But it won’t help.”

“Our ministry has said that if they hit one of our soldiers we will hit ten of theirs and destroy that position that launched the deadly gunfire. It’s not just talk. We warned them and now we are making good on those words,” says Karen.

After returning from service, these Armenian recon unit soldiers will write their accounts of what happened.

Now they are tight-lipped. There are still too many secrets to withhold.

It will take several decades for us to learn about the operations of our recon units and their importance.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://hetq.am/eng/news/55923/relative-calm-on-frontline-says-hetq-editor-reporting-from-artsakh.html

"Azerbaijani misinformation, which constantly spews out different things, [the population] doesn't particularly take seriously […] I also spoke with high-ranking officers, who tie this [i.e. the misinformation] with the manifold Azerbaijani victims and concealing the real number of their victims. But with the various information received it becomes understandable that they can't hide this for long. Today they say there was an incident, but those victims were [as a result of] incidents that occurred a few days ago. They have a great number of injured because when our guys pushed back, they also injured the rear and, in fact, they had a large number of casualties.

"I spoke with a few of the intelligence agents. They say that Azerbaijan doesn't have anything to be particularly happy about because there are sections where their positions are empty. The Azerbaijanis take shifts standing [guarding the border] only in the afternoons. I think, their defense minister must have big problems because [these] are revealed also with our actions: when our guys retaliate their attacks, the unorganized situation prevailing in their army is revealed. In fact, an army having such a military budget and arms, it seems, has no value.

"Yesterday I spoke with one of the guys; he was saying jokingly that a lot of their weapons are out of commission and the boys are promised they'll bring a few Israeli weapons. For them it's an occasion to replenish [their] military weapons. The Azerbaijanis have enviable weapons, but they can't use them — during sabotage attacks they leave those weapons and go."

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://hetq.am/eng/news/55923/relati...m-artsakh.html

"Azerbaijani misinformation, which constantly spews out different things, [the population] doesn't particularly take seriously […] I also spoke with high-ranking officers, who tie this [i.e. the misinformation] with the manifold Azerbaijani victims and concealing the real number of their victims. But with the various information received it becomes understandable that they can't hide this for long. Today they say there was an incident, but those victims were [as a result of] incidents that occurred a few days ago. They have a great number of injured because when our guys pushed back, they also injured the rear and, in fact, they had a large number of casualties.

"I spoke with a few of the intelligence agents. They say that Azerbaijan doesn't have anything to be particularly happy about because there are sections where their positions are empty. The Azerbaijanis take shifts standing [guarding the border] only in the afternoons. I think, their defense minister must have big problems because [these] are revealed also with our actions: when our guys retaliate their attacks, the unorganized situation prevailing in their army is revealed. In fact, an army having such a military budget and arms, it seems, has no value.

"Yesterday I spoke with one of the guys; he was saying jokingly that a lot of their weapons are out of commission and the boys are promised they'll bring a few Israeli weapons. For them it's an occasion to replenish [their] military weapons. The Azerbaijanis have enviable weapons, but they can't use them — during sabotage attacks they leave those weapons and go."

SYNOPSIS OF LAST FEW WEEKS EVENT:

- New Azeri DM is trying to proclaim himself and Aliyev is trying to prod some type of change in the status of the conflict.
- Armenians general document violations but are now more willing to retaliate with extreme force and inflict several times more damage
- Azeris sent "special forces" detachments in nighttime raids to gather prisoners for exchange and to boost morale as well as to utilize prisoners to exchange for Azeri criminals caught near Karvachar.
- Armenians repulsed Azeris causing heavy losses and counterattacked causing more human and material destruction. Armenians have ceded nothing to the Azeris and Azeris have ceded several times more losses as well as further deterioration in frontline morale.
- Azeris leave their lines largely unguarded at night. Despite being well-armed, their troops lack cohesion, morale, training, objective.
- Azeris, in order to boost morale and hide losses and make outrageous claims for public consumption. These claims can provide only temporary salve as real losses will eventually be reported and ascertained to families and the truth will become known. Furthermore, the Azeri public will have to eventually conclude that nothing, not even an inch of ground was gained, in fact, the Azeris are no even more reluctant to fill their front lines and this should keep them quiet for a while.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

From an Azeri source:

. [Myths and Realities of Azerbaijani Army](by Zaur Nasirli @Faktxeber.com 2013 (in Russian))

{At first I would like to dispel the myth that having a military budget of 3.7 billion. Dollars, we will surely crush Armenia’s military budget which is only 412 million. Dollars. Yes, our military spending 7 times greater than the military budget of Armenia, and generally exceed its entire budget, but, unfortunately, it may not mean anything. }
{So far it is advisable to speak with such certainty about the inevitable victory over Armenia? Deposit strong army – it is not money, and professionalism, combat capability, high-quality training of soldiers and their morale. Could not be said about our army , which still reigns hazing, and morale of the soldiers and their training is almost zero. Everyone tries by all means to avoid military service because of the appalling conditions in the army. Soldiers after service swear that for them the concept of “fight for the Motherland” not worth a penny.}

“Everyone tries by all means to avoid military service because of the appalling conditions in the army”.


2. [Azerbaijan sells soldiers’ body parts, slain serviceman’s mother reveals](panarmenian.net, August 6, 2012).

{Dead Azerbaijani soldier’s mother Kifayat Iskanderli said that body parts of her son and eight other servicemen were sold abroad.
Though suicide was announced as the official reason behind soldier of Azeri armed forces Parviz Iskanderli’s death, his mother noted that four officers beat him to death, hanging him on a tree afterwards.
According to Kifayat Iskanderli, her son’s body was brutally beaten up, with the body parts removed.
“Eighth soldiers have recently died under suspicious circumstances, with their body parts sold abroad,” the slain soldier’s mother said, adding that her son’s overhearing a confidential conversation between two officers served a reason for killing him, Azeri newspaper Bizim Yol reported.}

3. [Azeri organ trafficking scandal: heart, liver removed from soldier’s dead body](panarmenian.net September 8, 2012).

{Zerkalo Azeri newspaper has released а statement by the mother of Azeri soldier Irada Mamedova.
According to Ms. Mamedova’s report, the dead body of her son who was claimed to have committed a suicide was brought to her by a civilian who demanded to bury him at once.
Having learnt the news on trafficking of organs removed from dead soldier, Ms. Mamedova demanded to exhume the remains of her son.
As it was discovered during an autopsy, Ismail’s heart and liver were removed from the dead soldier’s body.
“Further, the investigator was trying to persuade me that Ismail’s missing organs simply decayed.”}

4. [Repin.info: Situation related to sexual offences in Azerbaijani army is shocking] (Panorama 2013)

{In 2011, while in the hospital Yusuf Geybatzade repeatedly beat and raped another soldier who was being treated too. When another soldier saw all this, Gaybatzade beat him too. This soldier reported to the commander of his squadron and the case was transferred to the military prosecutor’s office. Finally Ganja military court sentenced the offender to eight years in prison for the torture and abuse of his comrade-in-arms. “There is no concept of male-rape in the Azerbaijani judicial system,” the author explains.

The article noted that the Gaybatzade case was not the first in the Azerbaijani army. Thus in August 2010, three Azerbaijani servicemen – Askerov, Shirinov and Mehtiev were convicted for sexual offence, extortion and hazing towards their comrades-in-arms. In April of the same year junior sergeant Arif Gurbanov was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment for regular sexual offences towards his comrades-in-arms. In 2011, Senior Sergeant Mammadov and Pvt. Huseynov have been convicted for two and a half years imprisonment for committing sexual offence towards ten of their comrades-in-arms. “It’s noteworthy that Huseynov’s punishment was later reduced to nine months,” the author writes.

“But the most amazing case was that of Emin Rahimov’s, Togrul Bagirov’s and Yusif Yusifov’s. These three magic heroes raped the whole platoon. There were 28 victims found in this case. Factually three amative soldiers turned the whole platoon into their harem, and enjoy their sexual services at any time they wished,” the author notes, and stresses that all this was taking place during passing the military service in the post on the border with Nagorno-Karabakh.}
…….
{To the question, how does the leadership of Azerbaijani army respond to these egregious facts, the author quotes the words of the head of the press service of the Defense Ministry of Azerbaijan, Colonel-General Eldar Sabiroglu: “It is not violence; the amount of testosterone in the blood of the youngsters increases because of the good food. That is, cases of sexual offence in Azerbaijani Armed Forces are eloquent testimony of good nutrition of our soldiers. Notice, that the Armenians do not rape the young. This is the first sign that the Armenian soldiers are starving.”}

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

“It is not violence; the amount of testosterone in the blood of the youngsters increases because of the good food. That is, cases of sexual offence in Azerbaijani Armed Forces are eloquent testimony of good nutrition of our soldiers. Notice, that the Armenians do not rape the young. This is the first sign that the Armenian soldiers are starving.”
WOW!!!

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hmmm...
All of this makes me question the MoD official statements. I know this sounds insane, but now I believe it might be confirmed that we do conduct operations in Azerbaijan. But how many have we lost in these operations? Could the Azeri media claims at all be true at some points? (I highly doubt these operators went in with 40 guys...Thats alot of people for a stealth op. You are only bound to make noise...but we still have to take everything into consideration)
I also have a theory...
We are terrorizing their soldiers, causing immense problems with their MoD and now..we are breaking the soldiers on the front line. Their morale seems to be at an all time low. Could these shady intelligence divisions be tearing their troops morale apart for a precise reason?
Are we wearing them down to the very bottom so that *if* we do perform possible preemptive operations, they fall apart?

“It is not violence; the amount of testosterone in the blood of the youngsters increases because of the good food. That is, cases of sexual offence in Azerbaijani Armed Forces are eloquent testimony of good nutrition of our soldiers. Notice, that the Armenians do not rape the young. This is the first sign that the Armenian soldiers are starving.”
WOW!!!

Let them keep hurting each other. The poor soldiers are bound to crack, and go AWOL



I think we can all agree, these Special Forces Operators are extremely shady...It looks like you have to look past the ceremonial shows of strength (the eating of snakes, punching each other in the face, for an audience) to really see that these guys are well trained, professional, organized, and ready...

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hmmm...
All of this makes me question the MoD official statements. I know this sounds insane, but now I believe it might be confirmed that we do conduct operations in Azerbaijan. But how many have we lost in these operations? Could the Azeri media claims at all be true at some points? (I highly doubt these operators went in with 40 guys...Thats alot of people for a stealth op. You are only bound to make noise...but we still have to take everything into consideration)
I also have a theory...
We are terrorizing their soldiers, causing immense problems with their MoD and now..we are breaking the soldiers on the front line. Their morale seems to be at an all time low. Could these shady intelligence divisions be tearing their troops morale apart for a precise reason?
Are we wearing them down to the very bottom so that *if* we do perform possible preemptive operations, they fall apart?

gardzumem aveli lav chi khosank es temanerov stegh. Es forume verahskvadza turkagan goghmits. Gam ughaki khosank hayerenov.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Look from 1:10 how residents and army start fighting over Karen.
Does anyone know the reason why they were fighting ? Did residents not want to give Karen to them maybe ?

Videos of Captives Further Fuel Armenian-Azerbaijani Conflict
August 12, 2014 - 11:35am, by Giorgi Lomsadze Tamada Tales Armenian Military Azerbaijani Military Nagorno Karabakh

A video of the capture of an Armenian man who died in Azerbaijani captivity last week is fuelling anger in Armenia over claims that Azerbaijani forces tortured an unarmed Armenian villager to death. As so much in this brutal conflict, it comes with controversy from the other side, too. Footage showing a middle-aged Azerbaijani man in handcuffs being carted off by forces in disputed Nagorno Karabakh is raising hackles in Azerbaijan.

Armenia claims that 31-year-old Karen Petrosian was only a harmless villager who wandered into enemy-territory, while Azerbaijan claims he was an enemy-combatant. Amateur online video shows Petrosian talking to residents of the Azerbaijani border village Agbulaq. One woman from the village, who allegedly first sighted the man, told RFE/RL that Petrosian showed up unarmed and asked for tea.

Additional footage shows the villagers scuffling with Azerbaijani soldiers over Petrosian. RFE/RL reported that the villagers wanted credit for capturing the Armenian.

Later videos, released by the Azerbaijani military, show a frightened Petrosian in a military vest forced to his knees and interrogated by masked Azerbaijani men in military fatigues. Petrosian died on August 8, the day after his capture, from what Baku claims was heart failure.

Yerevan scoffs at Baku's depiction of Petrosian as a professional saboteur — for sartorial reasons, among others. “One never goes to commit an act of sabotage in a sporting uniform [sic] or a hunter’s vest,” observed Armenian defense ministry spokesperson Artsrun Hovhannisian, Tert.am reported. “If that’s how they think about their saboteurs, then I will avail myself of the opportunity to say that our special assignment forces are definitely better dressed.”

Faced with criticism over the treatment of captives like Petrosian, many Azerbaijanis are pointing to alleged atrocities committed by Armenians during the two countries’ 1988-1994 war; especially in 1992, in the Karabakhi village of Khojaly, where Azerbaijan claims that hundreds of ethnic Azeri residents were slaughtered trying to flee the area.

One Azerbaijani citizen, Shahbaz Guliyev, and a Russian national, Dilgham Asgarov, now are held captive in Karabakh as alleged commandos. The de-facto government there and Armenian officials claim that the two were caught in the act; a third man, Hasan Hasanov, supposedly was killed during capture.

Baku has denied that the two have anything to do with the military, and has demanded that the International Committee of the Red Cross secure their release and the return of Hasanov's body.

“If Armenia is currently demonstrating such a position on releasing the hostages and returning the body, how we can talk about the desire to coexist in the future based on mutual confidence[?]” senior presidential administration official Ali Hasanov asked the ICRC last month. (Baku does not negotiate with representatives of separatist Karabakh.)

The ICRC on August 12 visited the two men, Azerbaijani media report; a Karabakhi report claims it took letters for their families. The organization has not commented publicly.

Meanwhile, Armenian Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian has called for the punishment of both men -- a call likely to pick up popular momentum after the death of Petrosian.

International observers have accused both Armenia and Azerbaijan of the inhumane treatment of captives.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/69506