Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[argin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

we use mortars and grenade launchers too,sounds like we took it up a notch

Armenians fire on positions of Azerbaijani Army from heavy machine guns, mortars and grenade launchers
[ 13 January 2015 10:26 ]
Baku – APA. Armenian armed forces violated ceasefire with Azerbaijan 75 times in various directions of the frontline by heavy machine guns, mortars and grenade launchers throughout the day, said Azerbaijani Defense Ministry.

Armenian armed units fired on the positions of Azerbaijani Armed Forces in Kohnegishlag village of Aghstafa region, Gizilhajili, Jafarli, Kamarli, Farahli, Gushchuayrim, Ashaghi Eskipara villages and nameless uplands of Gazakh region from their posts in Paravakar, Berkaber, Vazashen and Azatamut villages of Armenia’s Icevan region, Dovekh, Barekamavan, Shavarshavan, Voskevan, Voskepar villages and nameless uplands of Noyemberyan region, positions in Alibeyli and Aghdam villages of Tovuz region from the posts in Ayqepar and Mosesqekh villages of Berd region.

The Azerbaijani positions also underwent fire from their posts near Goyarkh and Chilaburt villages of Terter, Tapgaragoyunlu village of Goranboy, Kengerli, Yusifjanli, Marzili, Shikhlar, Shuraabad, Javahirli and Shirvanli villages of Aghdam, Kuropatkino village of Khojavand region and nameless uplands of Khojavand and Fuzuli regions.

The enemy was silenced by retaliatory fire.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hagop, Mher,
I think we are forgetting the fact that Ukraine was targeted to change sides by gross interference.
By her own admission Victoria Nuland stated that 5 billion was spent towards coercing Ukraine to change allegiance, over a period of time but systematically.
Time was always on their side.

As an ex soviet country it already had its own structural problems, oligarchy and corruption

That money was not spent as investment to improve the state of the country.
In a corrupt country politicians go where the money is.
Its a no brainer.

Corruption and incompetence usually go hand in hand.
Therefore nobody could see the full equation, only what they wanted to see.

Paying somebody to change sides is easy, if you have the money.
Trying to do the same through war is difficult with the bias towards the impossible.

.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

we use mortars and grenade launchers too,sounds like we took it up a notch

Armenians fire on positions of Azerbaijani Army from heavy machine guns, mortars and grenade launchers
[ 13 January 2015 10:26 ]

If true, its about dam time.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

A soldier from the 102nd base in Gyumri committed a massacre yesterday and was trying to cross the border to Turkey when he was caught.

"The Russian fugitive serviceman suspected of killing six family members in Gyumri has admitted his complicity in the crime in a testimony.

After being caught on the Armenian-Russian border on Monday night, Valery Permyakov remains in the city’s military base, a deputy head of the Armenian Police, Hunan Poghosyan reporters today.

“He said that he’d gone out for a walk around the city and went into that house where the incident occurs. The detainee continues to remain in the Russian military base,” the state news agency Armenpress quotes him as saying.

The murder took place at 6:00 Yerevan time on Monday. The only survivor in the family is a six-month-old infant who is reported to be in hospital in a post-surgical shock."

http://www.tert.am/en/news/2015/01/13/Val-hunan/1557518

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hagop, Mher,
I think we are forgetting the fact that Ukraine was targeted to change sides by gross interference.
By her own admission Victoria Nuland stated that 5 billion was spent towards coercing Ukraine to change allegiance, over a period of time but systematically.
Time was always on their side.

As an ex soviet country it already had its own structural problems, oligarchy and corruption

That money was not spent as investment to improve the state of the country.
In a corrupt country politicians go where the money is.
Its a no brainer.

Corruption and incompetence usually go hand in hand.
Therefore nobody could see the full equation, only what they wanted to see.

Paying somebody to change sides is easy, if you have the money.
Trying to do the same through war is difficult with the bias towards the impossible.

.

----- Ukraine was targeted to change sides (by) GROSS INTERFERENCE ----
Targeted by the west.
A point that is intentionally (completely) ignored by the west. A point that is little known by the vast majority of the west's population.
Ukraine is -- NOT -- the first country the "west" has TORN apart by their contrived interference.
The tearing apart of Ukraine is directly the fault of USA/England/Euro.
Under the banner of "human rights" this group seeks to elevate corporate rights as an iron fisted dictator.
Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hagop, Mher,
I think we are forgetting the fact that Ukraine was targeted to change sides by gross interference.
By her own admission Victoria Nuland stated that 5 billion was spent towards coercing Ukraine to change allegiance, over a period of time but systematically.
Time was always on their side.

As an ex soviet country it already had its own structural problems, oligarchy and corruption

That money was not spent as investment to improve the state of the country.
In a corrupt country politicians go where the money is.
Its a no brainer.

Corruption and incompetence usually go hand in hand.
Therefore nobody could see the full equation, only what they wanted to see.

Paying somebody to change sides is easy, if you have the money.
Trying to do the same through war is difficult with the bias towards the impossible.

.

I agree with that you're saying
You have a better understanding of this than many others ... but I still feel the need to reiterate this for others because its something that misinterpreted (often intentionally), by many pro-russians. What that women meant was that the US has spent 5 billion dollars since Ukrainian independence in 1991 in a span of 23 years for development. In the same way it has spent over a billion dollars in aid to Armenia. To many this is somehow conveniently the US spent 5 billion dollars to bring down Yanukovych (who was only elected in 2010). The line usually goes, "oh of course there are protesters, 1 million protesters, 5 billion dollars, that's 5,000 each". In reality that's about $200 million a year for programs including US Peace Corps, HIV/AIDS measures, etc.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Does the US often abuse USAID and other programs for politics? absolutely, but it's not as dramatic as some people like it to be. Let's not try to deceive ourselves. Putin flat out gave Ukraine what amounts to a 15 billion dollar bribe for staying and the people still said no.

Anyway, in my initial post I wasn't trying to argue for or against the movement in Ukraine. And yes the US has a tendency of attempting to co-opt and take over these movements. however this doesn't mean those in the movement aren't doing what they believe is the best for their country. Many of the so called fascist nationalist like the right sector are far more negative towards the US and "European values" that they are towards Russia. They just want a country with less foreign influence.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I agree with that you're saying
You have a better understanding of this than many others ... but I still feel the need to reiterate this for others because its something that misinterpreted (often intentionally), by many pro-russians. What that women meant was that the US has spent 5 billion dollars since Ukrainian independence in 1991 in a span of 23 years for development. In the same way it has spent over a billion dollars in aid to Armenia. To many this is somehow conveniently the US spent 5 billion dollars to bring down Yanukovych (who was only elected in 2010). The line usually goes, "oh of course there are protesters, 1 million protesters, 5 billion dollars, that's 5,000 each". In reality that's about $200 million a year for programs including US Peace Corps, HIV/AIDS measures, etc.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Does the US often abuse USAID and other programs for politics? absolutely, but it's not as dramatic as some people like it to be. Let's not try to deceive ourselves. Putin flat out gave Ukraine what amounts to a 15 billion dollar bribe for staying and the people still said no.

Anyway, in my initial post I wasn't trying to argue for or against the movement in Ukraine. And yes the US has a tendency of attempting to co-opt and take over these movements. however this doesn't mean those in the movement aren't doing what they believe is the best for their country. Many of the so called fascist nationalist like the right sector are far more negative towards the US and "European values" that they are towards Russia. They just want a country with less foreign influence.

Mher
You are not helping by sugarcoating maidan and making what is said as prorussian.
Number one, Victoria Nuland has expressed several times herself that US has spent 5 BN to pull Ukraine from Russian sphere.
Even hardliners in congress, like McCain have openly demanded an accounting in return for that money after blunder of Crimea and Donbass.
The fact is that maidan was planned, organized, financed and carried out by west.
But lets put the maidan, Russia and prorussia aside, and talk about whats really matter and what are the biggest factors affecting internal social and Artsakh issues for us.
This word, prorussia, or prorussians has been circulating now internationally (not only here) by western media to discredit or devalue anybody dissagreeing and critisising west or their policies.
If anybody tries to critisise blind provestern propaganda that lacks real facts or does not have any real national feasible value, based on blind russophobia, is sure to be called a prorussian.
But what have anti russians achieved in Ukraine is very doubtfull overall.
How can Ukraine, that had it's population struggling in corruption and poverty, afford a civyl war and destruction and loss of large chunk of territory afford, is behind me.
How long are we gonna see any and every problem as either russian or western made?
Falling into one side or the other will lead to devastation for sure.
We've got geopolitical situation that forces us to make choices. We have to make the right ones and stick to it.
The less sensationalism and hate mongering the better for us.
Ukrainians fell into their own trap of ignorance and hatred.
They did not have to loose anything and cannot afford any devaluation or destruction.


There has been a crime commited 2 days ago in Gumry by a Russian. How we will ract to it is very important. Will I be called a prorussian if I say, lets look at this with calm and proceed with thoughtfull manner? We can hate all the russians for this. Or we can extruct the most political, social price from them for this.
If we burn with hate, not helpfull. If turn blind eye, double loss.
This is where neither our government, opposition or people do not have a clear idea. That is no good.
Today a russian, tomorrow a georgian, iranian, american, german.
We have got used to not looking in us for any problem and solution. Ukrainians did this too.
Most of the times we look outside to all directions to solve our probems that cannot be solved by outside.
If Ukrainians would not look to neither russia or west for easy way out, they would not be in what they are now.
For our social problems we must look inside.
For security, we must look at us.
Sometimes in this thread, it seems to me that some of the people here keep endlessly looking for an answer of what will happen with azeris and us? Will we win next war or not?
But the aswer is there all the time.
We have to win no matter what we and they have. We have to win no matter what Russia, US, Turkey or aerbaijan say or do. and we will.
No choice in this.
Nobody will change the social situation in Armenia. Not Russia, Not US. Only we. The only way to make our situation better is by changing our geopolitical situation by ourselfs.
If we must, then we have to be the aggressor at the right time.
This all should be our convictions, but we also have to be able to calculate united and free of influences and act to it. That's all.