Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Eddo211, this only means that Azeris don't know what an alliance is, which further shows their backwardness and proves their inability to run their state. And what are they going to hide behind? Oil gushing from broken pipelines?

Azeris are not the problem......the Turks are.
Also most do support Turkish views which go unchallenged, that is until an Armenian shows up and breaks up the party.

And in what forums do you post?

I keep an eye out on Persian, Pakistani, Israeli, US, European Forums to talk backs from Al Jazeera, LA times, Israeli news sites and such.
Check you PM for an example. Armenia does not even exist as a choice of country on this forum.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Yes, let's get back to topic.

"Strategically and militarily speaking, if Azeris launch another war, how capable is NKR+AR of liberating north Artsakh all the way up to the Kura river and Tovuz? Is it even realistic to ask that?
I'm betting that NKR would want to liberate Shahumyan atleast and push in further to create a safety buffer."

ZORAVAR, what do you think?

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Search for Russia being an participant and nothing was found. So give a source or stop the BS.

"The Russian Federation Ship "Pytliviy" participates in NATO’s Operation Active Endeavour (OAE). This is an historic coming together of two partners - NATO and Russia – cementing their growing ties in an operational engagement at sea countering the common threat of maritime terrorism. The same day, the first training courses for Afghan law-enforcement officers, under the NRC pilot project on “Counter-Narcotics Training of Afghan and Central Asian Personnel” begins at training centres in Turkey (Tadoc) and Russia (Domodedovo)."

Additional info on this NRC (NATO Russian council) website

http://www.nato-russia-council.info/htm/EN/chronology.shtml

http://www.acpr.org.il/pp/pp143-Wolfson-E.pdf
go to page 4

I hope this is enough proof That Russia provided Armenia with guns during the war and still does and will keep doing this in the future.

I can’t believe you sited this article. Are you aware that it has been written by a Russian xxx ( Ze’ev Wolfson) affiliated with Hebrew University painting Armenia as a supplier of Russian WMDs to Iran?

Also assuming there is some truth to this how much of arms from that estimated $1Billion worth in weapons that was transferred to Armenia through black and gray markets actually reach Artsakh? Monte himself said that Armenia is in a tough position and they do help us when they can, but we would have expected more help from Armenia. Even this article mentions the resale of these arms, with at least 10% transfer directly to Iran as Iranian relations picked up with Armenia.

This is an anti Russian anti Armenian article.

There is no doubt that Russia gives Arms to Armenia but it is the Armenians who send weapons under the table to NKR….and the notion that let the Russians guard our frontiers while we move all our soldiers to Azeri border is just crazy.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[QUOTE=Eddo211;298147]"The Russian Federation Ship "Pytliviy" participates in NATO’s Operation Active Endeavour (OAE). This is an historic coming together of two partners - NATO and Russia – cementing their growing ties in an operational engagement at sea countering the common threat of maritime terrorism. The same day, the first training courses for Afghan law-enforcement officers, under the NRC pilot project on “Counter-Narcotics Training of Afghan and Central Asian Personnel” begins at training centres in Turkey (Tadoc) and Russia (Domodedovo)."

Additional info on this NRC (NATO Russian council) website
http://www.nato-russia-council.info/...ronology.shtml[\quote]
Was talking about the exercise in Armenia just like Gegev was, so this means nothing.

I can’t believe you sited this article. Are you aware that it has been written by a Russian xxx ( Ze’ev Wolfson) affiliated with Hebrew University painting Armenia as a supplier of Russian WMDs to Iran?

Also assuming there is some truth to this how much of arms from that estimated $1Billion worth in weapons that was transferred to Armenia through black and gray markets actually reach Artsakh? Monte himself said that Armenia is in a tough position and they do help us when they can, but we would have expected more help from Armenia. Even this article mentions the resale of these arms, with at least 10% transfer directly to Iran as Iranian relations picked up with Armenia.

This is an anti Russian anti Armenian article.

There is no doubt that Russia gives Arms to Armenia but it is the Armenians who send weapons under the table to NKR….and the notion that let the Russians guard our frontiers while we move all our soldiers to Azeri border is just crazy.

i don't care who wrote it, it wasn't an Armenian or Russian don't even care if it was a Turk it shows like other sources provided by me and Armenian from his Russian thread that Russia did delivre weapons that helped us win the war and keep what we have won. You can continue with your anti-Russian ranting as long as you want. But first read this little thing Armenian has written.

As a result of Russia's growing military role in Armenia and the Caucasus the self-destructive peasantry (and some of Washington's stooges) in the so-called "opposition" there have been calling on officials in Yerevan to withdraw Armenia from the CSTO, expel Russian troops from Armenian soil and look for "alternatives". There have even been shouts of "betrayal"! The ARF is demanding "explanations" and Raffi Hovannisian has gone public with his demand that Moscow needs to start treating Armenia as an "equal partner" (sorry, but this is as silly as a cat demanding from a lion that it should be treated equally). Had the shallow rhetoric of these chobans-in-suits not been so dangerous or suicidal for our embattled republic in the Caucasus they would have been funny. As a self-respecting Armenian patriot, not only am I happy that Russian forces have been given a greater role in protecting Armenia's territorial integrity, I can actually say that for the first time in twenty years I am able to sleep easier knowing that our republic's borders are well protected. To the uninitiated these "pro-Russian" sentiments of mine may sound awkward, but those who are capable of understanding the complex nuances of regional geopolitics, those who understand the nature of Moscow's foreign policy formulations, those who maintain a realistic perception of Armenia's capabilities (as well as its inabilities) will readily understand what I am saying.

Besides, I really don't understand what all the hysteria is about. Russia has been defending Armenia 's border with Turkey for the past twenty years. Deepening its role will only serve to strengthen Moscow's resolve in its mission and will act as a stronger deterrent against Armenia's regional antagonists. Suggestions that "Armenia is loosing its independence" are nonsense. Whether we admit it or not, for the foreseeable future, Armenia will be dependent on one power or another for survival - I would rather that nation be Russia. Moreover, Moscow is the real reason why Ankara and Baku have not yet attempted to march on Yerevan during the past twenty years (did any of you actually think that Armenia's tiny military or the big-talking-under-performing diaspora was the reason why?). Therefore, since the Caucasus still remains a volatile powder-keg, since we already have Russian troops protecting Armenia's border with Turkey, and we all realize that for the foreseeable future we will need them to be in Armenia, why not make them invest more in the effort? Considering the circumstances we are dealing with here what Russia and Armenia have going on today is a healthy symbiotic relationship.

Russia does not owe us Armenians anything, Moscow is simply looking after its strategic interests in the Caucasus. If Armenia is a geopolitical asset for Moscow, Russia is a crucial life-line for Yerevan. Needless to say, we need them much more than they need us. Moreover, we fail to realize that if push comes to shove Moscow can literally force Armenia to do absolutely anything it wants - including forcing Yerevan to abandon Nagorno Karabakh - and it would still manage to keep Armenia within its orbit. One must be on serious hallucinogenic drugs if they think Armenia has any choices in this matter. Having said that, it must also be admitted that Kremlin officials have been sustaining Armenia (politically, technically, financially, economically and militarily) for the past twenty years. Their crucial support for Armenia cannot be over exaggerated nor can it be ignored even if it has come at the expense of selling to them Armenia's dilapidated Soviet era industry. In my opinion, in the big picture, Moscow has actually treated Armenia with white gloves.

Recent media rumors that Moscow is planning to sell Baku S-300 surface-to-air missile systems has caused some concerns in Armenia and the diaspora, and it also seems to have given ammunition to those who seek to put a wedge between Yerevan and Moscow. I have heard so much silly/hysterical/absurd comments about this matter that I feel compelled to make the following comment: those of you who do not have military experience, those of you who do not understand military matters, those of you who do not comprehend the complexities of regional geopolitics - I ask you to refrain from developing crazy ideas or making silly comments regarding this matter. Even if the report is true (although it's beginning to look like disinformation), the weapon system in question will not serve to tip the balance of power in the region in Baku's favor. The S-300 (a weapon which Armenia already operates) is designed to be effective against militaries of developed nations that maintain formidable air forces - not a nation like Armenia, who's air force possesses some two dozen antiquated aircraft. Moreover, Azerbaijan is fully capable of taking down Armenian warplanes with weapons systems they currently have. If Baku has the reported $300 million to waste on a new weapons system, I rather them spend it on the S-300 than on some other weapons system that can actually do harm to Armenian forces.

I recall when some of our "all-knowing" Armenians simply hell-bent on criticizing the Sargsyan/Kocharyan administration were sorely complaining that Armenia is in grave danger today because its military leadership does not understand the need for a powerful air force. Needless to say, maintaining an air force that is both modern and powerful is a monumental task, both financially and logistically. Having an effective air forces requires a lot of time (many years) and a lot more money (constant flow of billions of dollars). A modern air force is well above and beyond Armenia's minuscule national budget. Relatively a few nations today can actually afford the luxury of an real air force. With Russian support, Armenia's military planners have rightfully concentrated on building their ground forces, which is considered to be the finest in the region. Thus, an advanced anti-aircraft system like the S-300 will do Baku no good against Armenia or Artsakh in any future military conflict.

There is yet another aspect to this political equation that Armenians seem to be missing. Moscow will sell military hardware to Azerbaijan because if it does not someone else like Turkey, Israel or America will. Russian officials do not want to totally alienate Baku, especially at a time when Moscow has had a series of political successes in the region. It would be utterly foolish of Moscow if they alienated or antagonized Baku any further than they have already been for the past twenty somewhat years. It's bad enough that Moscow and Yerevan are in a strategic embrace, it's bad enough that Nagorno Karabakh is off-limits to Baku as a result of Russia's presence in the region, to add insult to injury by not having any dealings with Baku would make no political sense. Warming of relations between Moscow and Baku or Ankara is not going to diminish Armenia's strategic value in the Kremlin.

With growing political tensions throughout the region in question, let's be thankful that Moscow has now committed to modernizing Armenia's aging military arsenal, something Yerevan simply cannot do with its current state budget. Moreover, Armenia's defense minister recently announced Yerevan's desire to purchase advanced long-range weapons. And there is also talk that Russian forces stationed in Armenia will be gradually transferring their military hardware to their Armenian counterparts as they embark on a massive modernization program that is said to last until 2015. Kremlin's actions here are a clear message to Ankara and Baku and the message seems to be - we may have cordial relations with you but know that Armenia shall remain off-limits for you. The progression of Russo-Armenian relations is a reflection of the growing importance the Kremlin has been giving to Armenia. You can rest assured that Turks are terrified of this situation as it should also abate various Armenian concerns, but for some strange reason it seems to be having an opposite effect on some Armenians.

As I have said, we Armenians may be excellent artists, businessmen and intellectuals - but when it comes to politics we seem to act like stupid little children.

As long as ethnic Russians are at the helm in Moscow, Armenia has nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward to. Russians and Turks have been and will continue being natural enemies/competitors in Eurasia, sooner-or-later they will clash once again. And regardless of any lucrative trade deals they may have with Turks, Kremlin officials today realize that a powerful Armenia in the Caucasus is their best bet against pan-Turkism, Islamic fundamentalism, NATO expansionism and American imperialism. Moscow's partnership with Yerevan is also interesting in that the closer Armenia gets to Russia the more dependent Turks and Azeris become on Russia. In a certain sense, Armenia today is Moscow's sledge hammer hanging over Turkish heads in the Caucasus. The geopolitical insurance Armenia provides Russia in the Caucasus region will be jealously protected by Moscow officials for the foreseeable future. This is a great historic opportunity for us. As a result of its relationship with Russia Armenia has for the first time in perhaps a thousand years become a major political player in its region. With a little foresight and some pan-national effort, we can exploit this unique opportunity to strengthen Armenia and to finally pacify the Caucasus.

Grossmeisters in the Kremlin are continuing to play a brilliant game of geopolitical chess and I'm glad to report that Armenia is no longer a helpless pawn in the game. The current administration in Yerevan has also played the game quite well. As a result, from Washington to Brussels to London to Paris to Moscow to Ankara - officials have begun taking Yerevan seriously. These recent developments in the Caucasus have naturally struck a sore nerve in Washington.The following are several relevant articles that have appeared in the government press here in America, including one by one of Washington's men in Yerevan, Raffi Hovannisian.

Arevagal

[Tigranakert]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

KaroTheGreat, it's no use to quote those things, they won't read it they just ignore it, and they won't come up with another solution, only good in making one-sided statements. It's just useless.

A great article by the way

As a result of Russia's growing military role in Armenia and the Caucasus the self-destructive peasantry (and some of Washington's stooges) in the so-called "opposition" there have been calling on officials in Yerevan to withdraw Armenia from the CSTO, expel Russian troops from Armenian soil and look for "alternatives". There have even been shouts of "betrayal"! The ARF is demanding "explanations" and Raffi Hovannisian has gone public with his demand that Moscow needs to start treating Armenia as an "equal partner" (sorry, but this is as silly as a cat demanding from a lion that it should be treated equally). Had the shallow rhetoric of these chobans-in-suits not been so dangerous or suicidal for our embattled republic in the Caucasus they would have been funny. As a self-respecting Armenian patriot, not only am I happy that Russian forces have been given a greater role in protecting Armenia's territorial integrity, I can actually say that for the first time in twenty years I am able to sleep easier knowing that our republic's borders are well protected. To the uninitiated these "pro-Russian" sentiments of mine may sound awkward, but those who are capable of understanding the complex nuances of regional geopolitics, those who understand the nature of Moscow's foreign policy formulations, those who maintain a realistic perception of Armenia's capabilities (as well as its inabilities) will readily understand what I am saying.

Besides, I really don't understand what all the hysteria is about. Russia has been defending Armenia 's border with Turkey for the past twenty years. Deepening its role will only serve to strengthen Moscow's resolve in its mission and will act as a stronger deterrent against Armenia's regional antagonists. Suggestions that "Armenia is loosing its independence" are nonsense. Whether we admit it or not, for the foreseeable future, Armenia will be dependent on one power or another for survival - I would rather that nation be Russia. Moreover, Moscow is the real reason why Ankara and Baku have not yet attempted to march on Yerevan during the past twenty years (did any of you actually think that Armenia's tiny military or the big-talking-under-performing diaspora was the reason why?). Therefore, since the Caucasus still remains a volatile powder-keg, since we already have Russian troops protecting Armenia's border with Turkey, and we all realize that for the foreseeable future we will need them to be in Armenia, why not make them invest more in the effort? Considering the circumstances we are dealing with here what Russia and Armenia have going on today is a healthy symbiotic relationship.

Russia does not owe us Armenians anything, Moscow is simply looking after its strategic interests in the Caucasus. If Armenia is a geopolitical asset for Moscow, Russia is a crucial life-line for Yerevan. Needless to say, we need them much more than they need us. Moreover, we fail to realize that if push comes to shove Moscow can literally force Armenia to do absolutely anything it wants - including forcing Yerevan to abandon Nagorno Karabakh - and it would still manage to keep Armenia within its orbit. One must be on serious hallucinogenic drugs if they think Armenia has any choices in this matter. Having said that, it must also be admitted that Kremlin officials have been sustaining Armenia (politically, technically, financially, economically and militarily) for the past twenty years. Their crucial support for Armenia cannot be over exaggerated nor can it be ignored even if it has come at the expense of selling to them Armenia's dilapidated Soviet era industry. In my opinion, in the big picture, Moscow has actually treated Armenia with white gloves.

Recent media rumors that Moscow is planning to sell Baku S-300 surface-to-air missile systems has caused some concerns in Armenia and the diaspora, and it also seems to have given ammunition to those who seek to put a wedge between Yerevan and Moscow. I have heard so much silly/hysterical/absurd comments about this matter that I feel compelled to make the following comment: those of you who do not have military experience, those of you who do not understand military matters, those of you who do not comprehend the complexities of regional geopolitics - I ask you to refrain from developing crazy ideas or making silly comments regarding this matter. Even if the report is true (although it's beginning to look like disinformation), the weapon system in question will not serve to tip the balance of power in the region in Baku's favor. The S-300 (a weapon which Armenia already operates) is designed to be effective against militaries of developed nations that maintain formidable air forces - not a nation like Armenia, who's air force possesses some two dozen antiquated aircraft. Moreover, Azerbaijan is fully capable of taking down Armenian warplanes with weapons systems they currently have. If Baku has the reported $300 million to waste on a new weapons system, I rather them spend it on the S-300 than on some other weapons system that can actually do harm to Armenian forces.

I recall when some of our "all-knowing" Armenians simply hell-bent on criticizing the Sargsyan/Kocharyan administration were sorely complaining that Armenia is in grave danger today because its military leadership does not understand the need for a powerful air force. Needless to say, maintaining an air force that is both modern and powerful is a monumental task, both financially and logistically. Having an effective air forces requires a lot of time (many years) and a lot more money (constant flow of billions of dollars). A modern air force is well above and beyond Armenia's minuscule national budget. Relatively a few nations today can actually afford the luxury of an real air force. With Russian support, Armenia's military planners have rightfully concentrated on building their ground forces, which is considered to be the finest in the region. Thus, an advanced anti-aircraft system like the S-300 will do Baku no good against Armenia or Artsakh in any future military conflict.

There is yet another aspect to this political equation that Armenians seem to be missing. Moscow will sell military hardware to Azerbaijan because if it does not someone else like Turkey, Israel or America will. Russian officials do not want to totally alienate Baku, especially at a time when Moscow has had a series of political successes in the region. It would be utterly foolish of Moscow if they alienated or antagonized Baku any further than they have already been for the past twenty somewhat years. It's bad enough that Moscow and Yerevan are in a strategic embrace, it's bad enough that Nagorno Karabakh is off-limits to Baku as a result of Russia's presence in the region, to add insult to injury by not having any dealings with Baku would make no political sense. Warming of relations between Moscow and Baku or Ankara is not going to diminish Armenia's strategic value in the Kremlin.

With growing political tensions throughout the region in question, let's be thankful that Moscow has now committed to modernizing Armenia's aging military arsenal, something Yerevan simply cannot do with its current state budget. Moreover, Armenia's defense minister recently announced Yerevan's desire to purchase advanced long-range weapons. And there is also talk that Russian forces stationed in Armenia will be gradually transferring their military hardware to their Armenian counterparts as they embark on a massive modernization program that is said to last until 2015. Kremlin's actions here are a clear message to Ankara and Baku and the message seems to be - we may have cordial relations with you but know that Armenia shall remain off-limits for you. The progression of Russo-Armenian relations is a reflection of the growing importance the Kremlin has been giving to Armenia. You can rest assured that Turks are terrified of this situation as it should also abate various Armenian concerns, but for some strange reason it seems to be having an opposite effect on some Armenians.

As I have said, we Armenians may be excellent artists, businessmen and intellectuals - but when it comes to politics we seem to act like stupid little children.

As long as ethnic Russians are at the helm in Moscow, Armenia has nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward to. Russians and Turks have been and will continue being natural enemies/competitors in Eurasia, sooner-or-later they will clash once again. And regardless of any lucrative trade deals they may have with Turks, Kremlin officials today realize that a powerful Armenia in the Caucasus is their best bet against pan-Turkism, Islamic fundamentalism, NATO expansionism and American imperialism. Moscow's partnership with Yerevan is also interesting in that the closer Armenia gets to Russia the more dependent Turks and Azeris become on Russia. In a certain sense, Armenia today is Moscow's sledge hammer hanging over Turkish heads in the Caucasus. The geopolitical insurance Armenia provides Russia in the Caucasus region will be jealously protected by Moscow officials for the foreseeable future. This is a great historic opportunity for us. As a result of its relationship with Russia Armenia has for the first time in perhaps a thousand years become a major political player in its region. With a little foresight and some pan-national effort, we can exploit this unique opportunity to strengthen Armenia and to finally pacify the Caucasus.

Grossmeisters in the Kremlin are continuing to play a brilliant game of geopolitical chess and I'm glad to report that Armenia is no longer a helpless pawn in the game. The current administration in Yerevan has also played the game quite well. As a result, from Washington to Brussels to London to Paris to Moscow to Ankara - officials have begun taking Yerevan seriously. These recent developments in the Caucasus have naturally struck a sore nerve in Washington.The following are several relevant articles that have appeared in the government press here in America, including one by one of Washington's men in Yerevan, Raffi Hovannisian.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

KaroTheGreat, it's no use to quote those things, they won't read it they just ignore it, and they won't come up with another solution, only good in making one-sided statements. It's just useless.

A great article by the way

As a result of Russia's growing military role in Armenia and the Caucasus the self-destructive peasantry (and some of Washington's stooges) in the so-called "opposition" there have been calling on officials in Yerevan to withdraw Armenia from the CSTO, expel Russian troops from Armenian soil and look for "alternatives". There have even been shouts of "betrayal"! The ARF is demanding "explanations" and Raffi Hovannisian has gone public with his demand that Moscow needs to start treating Armenia as an "equal partner" (sorry, but this is as silly as a cat demanding from a lion that it should be treated equally). Had the shallow rhetoric of these chobans-in-suits not been so dangerous or suicidal for our embattled republic in the Caucasus they would have been funny. As a self-respecting Armenian patriot, not only am I happy that Russian forces have been given a greater role in protecting Armenia's territorial integrity, I can actually say that for the first time in twenty years I am able to sleep easier knowing that our republic's borders are well protected. To the uninitiated these "pro-Russian" sentiments of mine may sound awkward, but those who are capable of understanding the complex nuances of regional geopolitics, those who understand the nature of Moscow's foreign policy formulations, those who maintain a realistic perception of Armenia's capabilities (as well as its inabilities) will readily understand what I am saying.

Besides, I really don't understand what all the hysteria is about. Russia has been defending Armenia 's border with Turkey for the past twenty years. Deepening its role will only serve to strengthen Moscow's resolve in its mission and will act as a stronger deterrent against Armenia's regional antagonists. Suggestions that "Armenia is loosing its independence" are nonsense. Whether we admit it or not, for the foreseeable future, Armenia will be dependent on one power or another for survival - I would rather that nation be Russia. Moreover, Moscow is the real reason why Ankara and Baku have not yet attempted to march on Yerevan during the past twenty years (did any of you actually think that Armenia's tiny military or the big-talking-under-performing diaspora was the reason why?). Therefore, since the Caucasus still remains a volatile powder-keg, since we already have Russian troops protecting Armenia's border with Turkey, and we all realize that for the foreseeable future we will need them to be in Armenia, why not make them invest more in the effort? Considering the circumstances we are dealing with here what Russia and Armenia have going on today is a healthy symbiotic relationship.

Russia does not owe us Armenians anything, Moscow is simply looking after its strategic interests in the Caucasus. If Armenia is a geopolitical asset for Moscow, Russia is a crucial life-line for Yerevan. Needless to say, we need them much more than they need us. Moreover, we fail to realize that if push comes to shove Moscow can literally force Armenia to do absolutely anything it wants - including forcing Yerevan to abandon Nagorno Karabakh - and it would still manage to keep Armenia within its orbit. One must be on serious hallucinogenic drugs if they think Armenia has any choices in this matter. Having said that, it must also be admitted that Kremlin officials have been sustaining Armenia (politically, technically, financially, economically and militarily) for the past twenty years. Their crucial support for Armenia cannot be over exaggerated nor can it be ignored even if it has come at the expense of selling to them Armenia's dilapidated Soviet era industry. In my opinion, in the big picture, Moscow has actually treated Armenia with white gloves.

Recent media rumors that Moscow is planning to sell Baku S-300 surface-to-air missile systems has caused some concerns in Armenia and the diaspora, and it also seems to have given ammunition to those who seek to put a wedge between Yerevan and Moscow. I have heard so much silly/hysterical/absurd comments about this matter that I feel compelled to make the following comment: those of you who do not have military experience, those of you who do not understand military matters, those of you who do not comprehend the complexities of regional geopolitics - I ask you to refrain from developing crazy ideas or making silly comments regarding this matter. Even if the report is true (although it's beginning to look like disinformation), the weapon system in question will not serve to tip the balance of power in the region in Baku's favor. The S-300 (a weapon which Armenia already operates) is designed to be effective against militaries of developed nations that maintain formidable air forces - not a nation like Armenia, who's air force possesses some two dozen antiquated aircraft. Moreover, Azerbaijan is fully capable of taking down Armenian warplanes with weapons systems they currently have. If Baku has the reported $300 million to waste on a new weapons system, I rather them spend it on the S-300 than on some other weapons system that can actually do harm to Armenian forces.

I recall when some of our "all-knowing" Armenians simply hell-bent on criticizing the Sargsyan/Kocharyan administration were sorely complaining that Armenia is in grave danger today because its military leadership does not understand the need for a powerful air force. Needless to say, maintaining an air force that is both modern and powerful is a monumental task, both financially and logistically. Having an effective air forces requires a lot of time (many years) and a lot more money (constant flow of billions of dollars). A modern air force is well above and beyond Armenia's minuscule national budget. Relatively a few nations today can actually afford the luxury of an real air force. With Russian support, Armenia's military planners have rightfully concentrated on building their ground forces, which is considered to be the finest in the region. Thus, an advanced anti-aircraft system like the S-300 will do Baku no good against Armenia or Artsakh in any future military conflict.

There is yet another aspect to this political equation that Armenians seem to be missing. Moscow will sell military hardware to Azerbaijan because if it does not someone else like Turkey, Israel or America will. Russian officials do not want to totally alienate Baku, especially at a time when Moscow has had a series of political successes in the region. It would be utterly foolish of Moscow if they alienated or antagonized Baku any further than they have already been for the past twenty somewhat years. It's bad enough that Moscow and Yerevan are in a strategic embrace, it's bad enough that Nagorno Karabakh is off-limits to Baku as a result of Russia's presence in the region, to add insult to injury by not having any dealings with Baku would make no political sense. Warming of relations between Moscow and Baku or Ankara is not going to diminish Armenia's strategic value in the Kremlin.

With growing political tensions throughout the region in question, let's be thankful that Moscow has now committed to modernizing Armenia's aging military arsenal, something Yerevan simply cannot do with its current state budget. Moreover, Armenia's defense minister recently announced Yerevan's desire to purchase advanced long-range weapons. And there is also talk that Russian forces stationed in Armenia will be gradually transferring their military hardware to their Armenian counterparts as they embark on a massive modernization program that is said to last until 2015. Kremlin's actions here are a clear message to Ankara and Baku and the message seems to be - we may have cordial relations with you but know that Armenia shall remain off-limits for you. The progression of Russo-Armenian relations is a reflection of the growing importance the Kremlin has been giving to Armenia. You can rest assured that Turks are terrified of this situation as it should also abate various Armenian concerns, but for some strange reason it seems to be having an opposite effect on some Armenians.

As I have said, we Armenians may be excellent artists, businessmen and intellectuals - but when it comes to politics we seem to act like stupid little children.

As long as ethnic Russians are at the helm in Moscow, Armenia has nothing to worry about and a lot to look forward to. Russians and Turks have been and will continue being natural enemies/competitors in Eurasia, sooner-or-later they will clash once again. And regardless of any lucrative trade deals they may have with Turks, Kremlin officials today realize that a powerful Armenia in the Caucasus is their best bet against pan-Turkism, Islamic fundamentalism, NATO expansionism and American imperialism. Moscow's partnership with Yerevan is also interesting in that the closer Armenia gets to Russia the more dependent Turks and Azeris become on Russia. In a certain sense, Armenia today is Moscow's sledge hammer hanging over Turkish heads in the Caucasus. The geopolitical insurance Armenia provides Russia in the Caucasus region will be jealously protected by Moscow officials for the foreseeable future. This is a great historic opportunity for us. As a result of its relationship with Russia Armenia has for the first time in perhaps a thousand years become a major political player in its region. With a little foresight and some pan-national effort, we can exploit this unique opportunity to strengthen Armenia and to finally pacify the Caucasus.

Grossmeisters in the Kremlin are continuing to play a brilliant game of geopolitical chess and I'm glad to report that Armenia is no longer a helpless pawn in the game. The current administration in Yerevan has also played the game quite well. As a result, from Washington to Brussels to London to Paris to Moscow to Ankara - officials have begun taking Yerevan seriously. These recent developments in the Caucasus have naturally struck a sore nerve in Washington.The following are several relevant articles that have appeared in the government press here in America, including one by one of Washington's men in Yerevan, Raffi Hovannisian.

It's not my article it's written by Armenian, to bad he's not posting on this forum anymore.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It's not my article it's written by Armenian, to bad he's not posting on this forum anymore.

I know, too bad! Now it's our job to counter these anti-Armenian destructive statements.

By the way, Levon Ter-Petrosyan also constantly mentions he is ''only pro-Armenian'', should we support him?

[jgk3]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

To everyone in this thread:

This thread was intended to be a place to post articles on background information and developments concerning the Artsakh conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Though Russia is implicitly related to this conflict, and has a relationship with the leadership of both countries, having long fits of discord with one another over our relationship with Russia does much to clout the flow of information intended for this thread. This is not a matter of being pro-Russian or anti-Russian, it is simply a matter of subject focus.

If this thread was intended to be a pro-Russian thread that has no place for anyone who has a different opinion about our allegiances, I will regret to inform you that freedom of opinion is one of the keystones of this forum, and you are not allowed to attack each other over such stances. This concerns all of you, from Tigranakert, to Gegev, to Zoravar.

It is this fighting and attacking of one another that has done the most to derail this thread, but a secondary cause has been a shift of focus towards a critique about Russia's self interests in the region, becoming a more important subject matter than the power balance between Armenia and Azerbaijan. As I said, Russia's self interest is implicitly related to the conflict, but in terms of the scope of this thread, it is and always has been a background issue, and so all posts concerning this MUST be made in direct context with the thread topic: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan.

If you wish to discuss Russia's self-interests on its own, criticizing Armenia's alliance to them, do so elsewhere. However, if you can manage to show how a development in the situation is threatening to Armenia in matters of the Artsakh conflict, and it is related to Russia, that is welcome and members who disagree must do their best to express their opinions without attacking the poster.

I hope I've made all this clear. If you have any questions, consult me by pm.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Military Reports Another Deadly Shooting


YEREVAN (RFE/RL)–The Armenian military confirmed on Tuesday reports of yet another non-combat shooting within its ranks that left one soldier dead.

In a written statement, Armenia’s Defense Ministry said Sergeant Arsen Chobanian, 26, was shot dead by a fellow serviceman last week at an army outpost guarding an unspecified section of the Armenian-Azerbaijani border. It said the suspected shooter, Harutiun Vartanian, was arrested and charged with premeditated murder.

“A criminal investigation into the case is continuing,” the statement added. It gave no further details, saying only that the two soldiers are natives of the northeastern Tavush region bordering western Azerbaijan.

According to Armenian media reports they served in an army corps stationed in Tavush on a contractual basis.

The military unit was already rocked late last month by the mysterious shooting of Lieutenant Artak Nazarian. His relatives believe that the 30-year-old was killed by fellow servicemen.

Military investigators insist, however, that Nazarian committed suicide after being badly ill-treated by a deputy commander of his battalion and three soldiers. All four men are now under arrest pending investigation.

Nazarian was found dead the day before another officer and five soldiers serving at an army unit in Nagorno-Karabakh were shot dead in still unclear circumstances. Military investigators say one of those soldiers went on a shooting spree and killed himself after a bitter dispute with the officer.

The deadly incidents cast a renewed spotlight on chronic abuse, corruption and mismanagement within Armenia’s Armed Forces. Eight senior and mid-level officers were dismissed and more than a dozen others demoted as a result.

Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian discussed the deaths at an emergency meeting with the top army brass and senior Defense Ministry officials earlier this month. He ordered them to “meticulously analyze what happened” and “take steps to strengthen discipline in the troops.”

http://asbarez.com/84448/armenian-military-reports-another-deadly-shooting/

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Military Reports Another Deadly Shooting


YEREVAN (RFE/RL)–The Armenian military confirmed on Tuesday reports of yet another non-combat shooting within its ranks that left one soldier dead.

In a written statement, Armenia’s Defense Ministry said Sergeant Arsen Chobanian, 26, was shot dead by a fellow serviceman last week at an army outpost guarding an unspecified section of the Armenian-Azerbaijani border. It said the suspected shooter, Harutiun Vartanian, was arrested and charged with premeditated murder.

“A criminal investigation into the case is continuing,” the statement added. It gave no further details, saying only that the two soldiers are natives of the northeastern Tavush region bordering western Azerbaijan.

According to Armenian media reports they served in an army corps stationed in Tavush on a contractual basis.

The military unit was already rocked late last month by the mysterious shooting of Lieutenant Artak Nazarian. His relatives believe that the 30-year-old was killed by fellow servicemen.

Military investigators insist, however, that Nazarian committed suicide after being badly ill-treated by a deputy commander of his battalion and three soldiers. All four men are now under arrest pending investigation.

Nazarian was found dead the day before another officer and five soldiers serving at an army unit in Nagorno-Karabakh were shot dead in still unclear circumstances. Military investigators say one of those soldiers went on a shooting spree and killed himself after a bitter dispute with the officer.

The deadly incidents cast a renewed spotlight on chronic abuse, corruption and mismanagement within Armenia’s Armed Forces. Eight senior and mid-level officers were dismissed and more than a dozen others demoted as a result.

Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian discussed the deaths at an emergency meeting with the top army brass and senior Defense Ministry officials earlier this month. He ordered them to “meticulously analyze what happened” and “take steps to strengthen discipline in the troops.”

http://asbarez.com/84448/armenian-mi...adly-shooting/

I just wanted to add that incidents like this occure in all countries. The USA military is full of rape and murder cases. People are people and will act accordingly regardless of where they are. I hope the army will seek out and punish the guilty to preserve its own integrity.