Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I also believe the trend towards ground warfare is moving in a similar direction. More advancement in sophisticated, deadlier and longer range surface to surface missiles, ATGM systems, Artillery, etc. that are making tanks and APC's somewhat obsolete. Tanks and APC's will at some point only be utilized for clean up and territorial consolidation as opposed to offensive operations.

Instead of tank a fast moving rover with a fiew accurate guided rockets can do a lot of harm.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Joseph, I have seen this argument countless times on the internet forums - This argument is usually used by armchair generals on the internet who have a severe lack of knowledge on how ground operations are conducted, how tanks work, and their role.

You also shouldn't dismiss the fact that many tanks have built very effective counter-measures to ATGM systems. The lethality of ATGMs is often exaggerated, mainly because we have only seen it in action against archaic Soviet and Eastern block tanks. (Lebanon being an exception - It is generally agreed it wasn't the ATGMs that did the trick, but it was Hezbollah's tactics in a mountainous environment. Even in Lebanon many of the tanks destroyed were older Merkava variants)

I don't see how artillery and MLRS make armored vehicles obsolete. Many of those systems are actually not made to be used against concentrations of armor (Like the TOS-1A). Many are made to be used against troop concentrations and staging areas. If you argue that accurate artillery and deadly MLRS systems make armored vehicles obsolete, you should probably also argue that it makes the concept of infantry obsolete.

The tanks role has changed since WW1. It hasn't been a system to support infantry in a very long time. It is the now the leader of major ground operations and a spearhead. It is also an invaluable asset on the battlefield. Its role is actually only become more important, I doubt it will be sidelined because of ATGMs or even considered obsolete anytime soon

Jesus, thanks for the insults right off the bat. Appreciate that.

That's precisely why I used "somewhat". More sophisticated and therefore cost prohibitive tanks, etc will eventually have to be produced. Already the production of main battle tanks is in decline, at least for the United States.

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It will be very tough for tanks to penetrate through groups of ATGM launchers.
Correct tactics should be used. A good example of incorrect usage of tanks is Syria.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It will be very tough for tanks to penetrate through groups of ATGM launchers.
Correct tactics should be used. A good example of incorrect usage of tanks is Syria.

For countries with smaller defense budget the ATGM launchers will make most tank models a rotisserie oven.
Countries with lager budget will make all tanks a rotisserie oven from miles away.
I would rather die from shrapnel and bullets, have the option to take cover jumping out of 4x4 than die in a guarantied slow moving oven.
If the objective is to move all that steel and protective armor to protect an artillery ... better go with an open system

http://www.indiastrategic.in/image/ArtyMod.jpg

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Jesus, thanks for the insults right off the bat. Appreciate that.

That's precisely why I used "somewhat". More sophisticated and therefore cost prohibitive tanks, etc will eventually have to be produced. Already the production of main battle tanks is in decline, at least for the United States.

I didn't mean to insult you, what are you talking about?

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"Azerbaijan’s Defense Ministry announced that the Special Forces of Azerbaijan take part in joint multinational exercises in Turkey.
The joint multinational training of Special Forces will run in Turkey from June 6 to 12, the ministry reported. Besides the representatives of the Azerbaijani Armed Forces, the servicemen of Bulgaria, Georgia and Turkey are also involved in the exercises.
On June 2, Armed Forces of Turkey and Azerbaijan, in accordance with the agreement on military cooperation between the two countries, held their joint exercises in the city of Kars.

http://www.azernews.az/azerbaijan/97639.html

Maybe their next exercise should be in julfa to keep the historic team going?

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

For countries with smaller defense budget the ATGM launchers will make most tank models a rotisserie oven.
Countries with lager budget will make all tanks a rotisserie oven from miles away.
I would rather die from shrapnel and bullets, have the option to take cover jumping out of 4x4 than die in a guarantied slow moving oven.
If the objective is to move all that steel and protective armor to protect an artillery ... better go with an open system

http://www.indiastrategic.in/image/ArtyMod.jpg

9M55K1 munition of Smersh sistem can destroy any tank. They are now producing similar artillery rounds that can be fired over tank column and self guide and destroy.

http://www.deagel.com/Rockets/9M55K1_a000988003.aspx

Tanks are running their last pages. Even ATGMs are becoming like a change in the militaries hands. Next generation of fast mobile rocket loucher vehicle that releases self guiding tank killers is on the way.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Next generation of fast mobile rocket loucher vehicle that releases self guiding tank killers is on the way.

This is it



^^ This could replace 5 items out of our military

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Could be used for this

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is it

[ATTACH]3120[/ATTACH]

^^ This could replace 5 items out of our military

This is good but only one type. Those use laser guided missiles.

But there are also munitions that fire from 20-40 km away and release pack of parachuted munitions which seek and destroy armor as they descend down.
Can you imagine releasing just 3-5 missiles that in turn release 20-30 submunitions like those over a tank column?
That's it the battle is over before tanks get to front.
That is why some of us are holding our breath as to when Russia is going to supply us those. If we get those, Azeris can never claim up our mountains.
Even Turkish threat will be somehow very diminished. Of course paired with impenetrateble mutual air Defence.