Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army
Special forces.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There you go...
like I was saying, our, Russian or any former Warsaw Pact country snipers are just skilled hunters. No where near tactical force like NATO snipers.
Our snipers may be excellent in camouflage, psichological, mental or shooting skills. But their realistic maximum range is 1000 meters (I don't believe in capability statement of 1500 meters. From this video it looks as a talk of wish).
The way they describe their operations it's abvious they are trained to operate single.
A single sniper cannot be effective in over 1000 meter range. You need a team of 2 or sometimes even more. Over 1000 meters the wind and bullet drop are so significant that precise calculations are necessary. One person cannot effectively do all this without runnng the risk of loosing stealth. You cannot switch between range finder to ballistic calculator to rifle without giving away your movements. You cannot see and mark the point of impact from previous shot and calculate, adjust and quickly make follow up shot at the same time being aware of what's happening close to you as any enemy regular can point where the shot came from and open up with machine guns or mortars to your position.
While the shooter concentrates at observing and identifying target at far distance, you need a second person at monitoring the surrounding close area and equipped with grenades and other necessary means, along with machine gun to cover in case. You cannot expect a single sniper to carry that heavy sniper rifle with 2-3 days of water and provisions along with long range communications, GPS and cartographic means to direct artillery.
In one word a single sniper is not a tactical far distance presicion setup. It is more of a very skilled hunter (like you hear them saying in this clip) that is capable of taking out targets of opportunity at relatively close ranges.
You cannot rely this setup at covering enemy snipers, artillery spotters, low level command and observation posts behind 1000 meter range (where most of them are located) effectively.
Another way, our snipers can take out individual targets and maybe do some reconnaissance on immediate vicinity. But they cannot make the effective kills to change an outcome of a battle on a small tactical area. They cannot create an umbrella where it's very hard for enemy snipers to operate. They cannot have an upper hand on the sniping war, which is taking lives of our young soldiers in trenches.
They seem to be talented local people, not exclusively trained career people in advanced operational cells.
God forbid our snipers face NATO guys.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

HALO Trust Minefield clearance, Nagorno Karabakh

[Vahram90]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There you go...
like I was saying, our, Russian or any former Warsaw Pact country snipers are just skilled hunters. No where near tactical force like NATO snipers.
Our snipers may be excellent in camouflage, psichological, mental or shooting skills. But their realistic maximum range is 1000 meters (I don't believe in capability statement of 1500 meters. From this video it looks as a talk of wish).
The way they describe their operations it's abvious they are trained to operate single.
A single sniper cannot be effective in over 1000 meter range. You need a team of 2 or sometimes even more. Over 1000 meters the wind and bullet drop are so significant that precise calculations are necessary. One person cannot effectively do all this without runnng the risk of loosing stealth. You cannot switch between range finder to ballistic calculator to rifle without giving away your movements. You cannot see and mark the point of impact from previous shot and calculate, adjust and quickly make follow up shot at the same time being aware of what's happening close to you as any enemy regular can point where the shot came from and open up with machine guns or mortars to your position.
While the shooter concentrates at observing and identifying target at far distance, you need a second person at monitoring the surrounding close area and equipped with grenades and other necessary means, along with machine gun to cover in case. You cannot expect a single sniper to carry that heavy sniper rifle with 2-3 days of water and provisions along with long range communications, GPS and cartographic means to direct artillery.
In one word a single sniper is not a tactical far distance presicion setup. It is more of a very skilled hunter (like you hear them saying in this clip) that is capable of taking out targets of opportunity at relatively close ranges.
You cannot rely this setup at covering enemy snipers, artillery spotters, low level command and observation posts behind 1000 meter range (where most of them are located) effectively.
Another way, our snipers can take out individual targets and maybe do some reconnaissance on immediate vicinity. But they cannot make the effective kills to change an outcome of a battle on a small tactical area. They cannot create an umbrella where it's very hard for enemy snipers to operate. They cannot have an upper hand on the sniping war, which is taking lives of our young soldiers in trenches.
They seem to be talented local people, not exclusively trained career people in advanced operational cells.
God forbid our snipers face NATO guys.

կարող է քո չափ չեմ հասկանում դիպուկահարներից, բայց էնպես չէ, որ մերոնք միայն մենակ են գործում։ Եթե հիշում ես, կադրեր կային անգամ թե ոնց են մերոնք թուրք խփում։ Ու էդտեղ քո ասած ձևով մեկը դիտարկում էր, մյուսը Մ93-ով կրակում։ Էս նոր ռեպորտաժի մեջ ընդամենը պարապմունքային դրվագներ ցույց տրվեցին, չասվեց թե կոնկրետ երբ ոնց են գործում։ Հետո չմոռանանք որ մենք դիպուկահար հրացաններ ունենք, որոնք 2000մ կրակում։ Էդ դեպքում արդեն - եթե քո ասածը ճիշտ է - անհնար է մենակ գործելը։

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

կարող է քո չափ չեմ հասկանում դիպուկահարներից, բայց էնպես չէ, որ մերոնք միայն մենակ են գործում։ Եթե հիշում ես, կադրեր կային անգամ թե ոնց են մերոնք թուրք խփում։ Ու էդտեղ քո ասած ձևով մեկը դիտարկում էր, մյուսը Մ93-ով կրակում։ Էս նոր ռեպորտաժի մեջ ընդամենը պարապմունքային դրվագներ ցույց տրվեցին, չասվեց թե կոնկրետ երբ ոնց են գործում։ Հետո չմոռանանք որ մենք դիպուկահար հրացաններ ունենք, որոնք 2000մ կրակում։ Էդ դեպքում արդեն - եթե քո ասածը ճիշտ է - անհնար է մենակ գործելը։

Thanks for commenting in Armenian Vahram Jan and sory that I am answering in English. My phone Armenian keyboard has s very combersome to use.
In my opinion above, in no way I tried to minimize achievements by our snipers or put them in shade. But what I was talking about is endemic of Communist block militaries.
Originally they were lagging in precision weapons and schools, plus they did not spend enough on training snipers. Now, our army is able to obtain those equipment, but I don't see the abvious signs of high level sniper trainings or tactics. being secretive about it is irrelevant and untrue.
We don't have a separate and dedicated sniper school. Azeris do, and that because turkey thought them about importance of it and NATO sniper tactics and etc.
we are lagging behind.
Proof is the fact that Azeris refuse to pull out their snipers from frontline, while we agree to it.
They know that thanks to their Turkish brethren they have advantage and they don't want to give it up.
Given that our guys have better morals and ingenuity, if we had created sniper force equal to western standards (which we can do for sure if we stop clinging to Russian traditional philosophy about it) Azeri sniper issue could be solved in short time.
Our villages, like in Tavush would not be shot at this much. They would be covered by sniper umbrella in addition of cover by trench line guys.
In April war many shortcomings showed up and our army is fixing them.
In my opinion a high level sniper force is another factor which has to be fixed. It's not enough just to answer to azeri provocations. We must take the sniper initiative away from them.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

One person cannot effectively do all this without runnng the risk of loosing stealth. You cannot switch between range finder to ballistic calculator to rifle without giving away your movements. You cannot see and mark the point of impact from previous shot and calculate, adjust and quickly make follow up shot at the same time being aware of what's happening close to you as any enemy regular can point where the shot came from and open up with machine guns or mortars to your position.

There are lots of new gadgets coming in the market for the lone sniper. The problem they have not been used in the real world yet to have feedbacks if they really work. We have some decent sniper rifles but they are not the top of the line for the long-range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGh1jB2ffiI

The azeris are building and using massive sniper rifles with turkish help and licensing. I do not believe they are very accurate, but they definitely have massive fire power for distance. The best retaliation is heavy mortars so they will think twice before venturing in the future.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

There are lots of new gadgets coming in the market for the lone sniper. The problem they have not been used in the real world yet to have feedbacks if they really work. We have some decent sniper rifles but they are not the top of the line for the long-range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGh1jB2ffiI

The azeris are building and using massive sniper rifles with turkish help and licensing. I do not believe they are very accurate, but they definitely have massive fire power for distance. The best retaliation is heavy mortars so they will think twice before venturing in the future.

We had discussions about azeri rifles at the height of their propaganda hype. Back to around pages 650 ish, in this forum.
I explained why azeri sniper rifles are pieces of junk, not fit for mountains. A fiew weeks after that posts Artsrun Hovhsnnesian had a small program in which he explained what I was talking about and much much more in detail.
Those massive rifles are not meant for human targets and are not capable of hitting that accurate. They're fit for personnel carriers and cars. But in the mountains? Hard to maneuver that size sticks and conceal.
We got good sniper rifles which are practical calibers.
Look at the walls on houses in Tavush. Lot of azeri shots by their rifles miss even the houses from a kilometer or so.
A better job can be done by rockets and mortars than those azeri rifles against BTRs

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[DieHard69]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What Tank is that on the left, it looks nothing in our Tank stock do we have a T-54 modernized variant?