Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What efforts has the Artsakh Republic made to encourage the settlement of people in the regions surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh? I have read that only 14,000 of the population of the republic lives in these regions. It seems if more people were settled in these regions, the possibility of losing the regions would be much less. How can this successfully be done?

Also, is there any possibility of Armenia actually giving up these regions?
And if so, why. This seems outrages considering what it took to win those territories, what they mean to Armenians, and how the prospects of a future conflict completely favor Armenia.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

So you suggest we just be all alone?? Russia is the best friend we got given the options, nothing is perfect.

I have never said to reject any ally.
But do not trust anyone, most of all Russia.
It is our blinded russophilia that permits, for a large part this lack of respect from the russian policy makers. They did not behave like this with any of their allies.

So we must forget about our traditional obsession to prove our quality of 'most trustful ally'... they proved so many times they do not give any shiit about it.
If they are in Gyumri, it is ONLY for their state interest, not for our eyes stake. They must know, that if we loose Agdam, then they will loose Gyumri...
This must be clear cut for them, and we must stop preaching 'pro russian' propaganda in our media, making them believe, that they can afford Mr Medvedev's pro turkish policy, force us return parts or all of Artsakh, to 'try' to win Turks from the US... while being insured to keep their base in Armenia...
They must know, that we may renounce to them, if they continue this path...

What to do?
Plan and plan again to fight alone, resist as long as possible, retain the ground.... as every nation that respects itself, and do your outmost to find and imply allies.
First point does not exclude, but implies and preconditions the second.
Once you fight and resist, you are considered and respected, if not feared.
And when you fight, you have allies, even the least evident ones.... (Russia and Iran are the most evidents, and useful, but not the only ones)
It is your job to make them more numerous, reliable and helpful.

But before and after anything, everything is conditioned by your fighting capacity, tenacity.

Your enemies have a lot of enemies in their own turn, never forget.
But for anybody to consider you as a 'useful tool', you must first be a credible fighting force.

Put yourself in your potential allies place, as the 'stronger' one, and you will see things less emotionally.
Let's not consider Turkey for a while, with its bigger stakes and more serious 'enemies'...

Let's consider the small Azerbaijan, with us as first enemy.
It happens that the same Azerbaijan hase some smaller 'internal enemies', (or potential enemies, that's not the matter), like the Talysh, Tzakour, Lezguins, Avars...
Some of them are assimilated, corrupted or terrorized,.... but some, and not the smallest part would dream of external help to 'survive'.
And who else than us, the most 'interested', they should look at first?
But did we, or would we consider 'investing' on them, while we are practically at war with their enemy?

Because they are not credible by today.
If they had faught, killed and been killed, shown their capacity to fight, and turned 'credible', things would have been much different, isn't it? (no matter here our capacity to help them)

Major or regional powers have seen, and will always see us the same way.

If it is not Russia, there will be others... provided you fight and resist long enough,...

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Արցախի ՊԲ-ն կրկին հերքում է Ադրբեջանի ապատեղեկատվությունը
by admin at 25 june, 2011, 8:14 pm

Արցախի ՊԲ օպերատիվ տվյալների համաձայն, անցած շաբաթվա ընթացքում ղարաբաղա-ադրբեջանական հակամարտ զորքերի շփման գծում հակառակորդի կողմից արձանագրվել է հրադադարի ռեժիմի խախտման 200-ից ավելի դեպք, որի ընթացքում ադրբեջանական բանակի ստորաբաժանումները հայկական դիրքերի ուղղությամբ տարբեր տրամաչափի հրաձգային զենքերից, արձակել են ավելի քան 600 կրակոց: Առավել ինտենսիվ կրակոցներ են արձանագրվել հատկապես հունիսի 18-ին, 19-ին և 22-ին: Միայն այդ երեք օրերի ընթացքում հակառակորդը “ak”, “cbd”, “Пk” և “УТЕС” զինատեսակներից հայկական դիրքերի ուղղությամբ արձակել է շուրջ 400 կրակոց:
Հակառակ նշված փաստերի ադրբեջանական լրատվամիջոցները, հավատարիմ իրենց ավանդական քաղաքականությանը Հայաստանի, Ադրբեջանի և Ռուսաստանի նախագահների հերթական հանդիպման նախօրեին, միջազգային հանրությանը ապակողմնորոշելու նպատակով, տարածել են կեղծ հաղորդագրություն, համաձայն որի իբր հայկական կողմի նախաձեռնությամբ, հրադադարի խախտման արդյունքում, ադրբեջանական կողմը ունեցել է մեկ վիրավոր:Նշված հաղորդագրությունը ակնհայտ ապատեղեկատվություն է և չի համապատասխանում իրականությանը: Իսկ ադրբեջանական զինծառայողի վիրավորման փաստը կարող է պայմանավորված լինել հարևան երկրի զինված ուժերում առկա միջանձնային ոչ կանոնադրական փոխհարաբերություններով:
Առաջնային գծում, հայկական զինված ուժերը անվերապահորեն պահպանում են հրադադարի ռեժիմը, չեն ենթարկվում սադրանքների, և լիովին վերահսկում են իրադրությունը:

[Hayk]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I Put this with shortenings, to avoid posting too much nonesense.
For the original version:

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg379690.html

-----------------------

Lies lies lies !!!!

[Hayk]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just finish watching Azer. military parade and I want to know your opinions !!! they are making everything new with billions of dollars !! they show off the S-300 Favorit and ... !! i think they are preparing for a war and waiting for a green light of west !!!

[Tigranakert]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Just finish watching Azer. military parade and I want to know your opinions !!! they are making everything new with billions of dollars !! they show off the S-300 Favorit and ... !! i think they are preparing for a war and waiting for a green light of west !!!

Calm down, you speak like a troll. Probably you are.

Just finished watching, I am not that much impressed, we can cope with this, especially with the modernization going on in our army. The stupid Azerbaboons can't even drive properly in formation.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Dont trust them, they are hypocrites. I will give you an actual example.
Look this video is a fresh one about the karabach issue: the english verison is objective

BUT now the same video in german- full of turkish lies. the lady says, quote:
" Since the beginning of the 19th century Karabach is largely populated by Armenians. After 1813 Persia had ceded this territory to Russia, Armenians emigrated from Persia. This christian population adhered to the Russians as a christian's protector[...] Muslim tribes has settle in Azerbaijan since the 8.th century." ....According to this "Lady" Armenians are invaders of former muslim land...what the f...

Yes, what else to expect, Turks are slowly taking over Germany anyway, and Germans are powerless. Turks are so racist and nationalistic, that even their president dares to say when visiting Germany "don't assimilate, always remain loyal to Turkey".

[Hayk]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I have no doubt in that and I proud of our army !!! the modernization of our air defense forces are very clear message ,after opening of s-300 base in Syunik province and production of electronic parts of air defense are smart move !!!

[Hye]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hi Vrej1915
i posted a few days ago sugesting to keep this thread pure military someone, who's not worth mentioning the name, didn't want to give him/her the satisfaction by starting stupid replying game and spam this thread but i personaly hoped we would do this kind of discussion in another thread their are many at least a few about this issue. Anyway this is not priority its just a sugestion. Anyway to more important things.

You talk in absolute generality simplifying things. As I understood your main point is never trust Russia or anyone whoever it is. Well this is correct not just in case of Armenia but even on personal level everything in life is based on personal intrest and just like you are preaching to Armenia that we must trust no one and act based on our intrests so will every one else in the world. If that is so how are people considered allies? It is all based on common intrest no more no less. till now i haven't said anything new and im sure you would agree on all i have said till now because as you did Im just talking about absolute generalities now lets go specific.
Does Armenia or even me (and i know many would agree with me) trust Russia as purely trust? hell no there is no such thing as trust in the world in the first place if someone screws you over it's because you have miscalculated something. So lets take the argument to this direction are Armenia or people who support this alliance with Russia miscalculating or not.
Let me talk about my calculations I have talked about this before sorry if i repeat myself to those who have read.
As we all know Armenia is located in south caucasus a place where there are two major players who have competed for centuries and are still competeing till this day to control these powers are Russia and Turkey. And since they are competitors they will never ever ever ever be allies unless one of them or both of them will get weak which will create a power vaccum in the reagion inviting other outside powers to infiltrate in the region. You seem to like history and historictly this has happened beginning 1917 till the 20s. When they both became weak (first Russia then Turkey) Britain tried to infiltrate Armenians betted on them and got their ass kicked (very simply put) and Russia had brief alliance with Turkey to kick Britain out of the region.
First conclusion that concerns us As long as Russia is powerfull Russia and Turkey will never be allies.
you claim Russia helped Azerbaijan against Armenia during Karabakh war in 1991 operation ring and 1992. I haven't heard abour any Russian help in 1992 if you have reliable sources be my guest. But what you say about 1991 it is true. 1991 was completly different geopolitical situation it was during soviet union back then and the operation ring was last resort to keep the union intact unfortunately to them it didn't work. but when the union was crumbled new geopolitical situation was stablished which still stands today and the years to come. We don't have to prove to anyone that we are important to Russians believe me they know more than we do if Karabakh fell (even the territories outsiide NKAO) this will ultimately lead to the fall of Armenia Turkish and Azeri control of the region and on the long run the Turkish infiltration of nother caucasus through the muslims there and ultimately fall of Russia at least as a power. Now can you see how important small Karabakh is to Russia? on the other hand if Karabakh fall there will be no Armenia. Can you see the common intrets here. No trust no general talk. Im talking about calculations that Serj and his government and administration do. No one is trusting each other blindly.
back to conclusion one As long as Russia is powerfull there is no treat to Armenia and Karabakh and Armenia is the most important key in caucasus that preserves Russian power. And in my modest opinion NO ONE EVER WILL GIVE AZERIS AN INCH LAND AS LONG AS RUSSIA IS THE STRONG PLAYER IN THE REGION. So all those stupid analysis that say this and that serj traitor hovsep savior are in my modest opinon BS. I don't see any time soon Karabakh conflict being solved by negotiation or by war.
Third I would like to point out there is NO one in the world who could ever provide us more than what russia is providing us NO ONE WHAT SO EVER and the reason is geography. Again from history. Why Britain couldn't preserve Armenia and left it alone because there is no way it can send any army or resources to do so Armenia is landlock moutainouse country the quote "Our fleet can't reach to the peaks of Ararad" in 1894 wassn't just a political way of saying we aren't willing to help (back at the time though that was what it ment) in WW1 it proved that they couldn't even help if they wanted to. The same goes to USA in WW1 although USA's isolationist policy was a factor to refuse mendate of Armenia but there was the factor that USA couldn't reach to landlock Armenia even if it wanted to. if we had sea it would have been kinda different situation (Hense Wilsonian Armenia which had big chunk of sea shor in the north Trabizon which wasn't any time pasrt of the Armenian highland and there wasn't any Armenian majority to begin with but Wilson knew what he was doing). The only country capable of defending Armenia in case needed is Russia and only Russia (unless you are considering Turkey to defent us from themselves lol) NOT because we trust Russia because logical calculations makes us to know that.
If you have other calculations be my guest I'd be glad to hear.
Although I would like to quate some of what you said and answer them in more details the post is long enough maybe another time but I just want to say one thing Armenians specially in the diaspora tend to overestimate what Armenia or even Armenian diaspora can do. look at the situation and facts and calculate carefully and, in my opnion, you will see this Armenian administation is doing what it can pretty good.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

New unit the Armenian peacemakers goes to Kosovo: