Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

how good would they fare against manpads and shilka? any better than our own Mi-24s?

The Mi-35 is equipped with a Radar Warning Receiver (RWR). If the a Shilka were to track the Mi-35 with its radar, the RWR system would alert the pilot that it is being tracked and also give a rough location of the source of the radar waves. We posses the ZSU-23-4M2 variant which does not use a radar but a nigh vision camera thus making it much more stealthier. Also the radar's on the Shilkas pick up a lot of false returns under 60m 200ft, so if a helicopter is hugging the ground (which it would most likely be) it will not be detected.

However, the radar picks up many false returns (ground clutter) under 60 m (200 ft) of altitude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSU-23-4#Radar


The Mi-35 is also equipped with a missile approach waring system. If the system sees the missile approaching it alerts the pilot to the direction of the missile and automatically dispenses flares. Whether the missile goes for the flares or the helicopter depends on the version of the manpad and i would assume many other factors.

As far as i know non of the Armenian Mi-24's are equipped with Radar Warning Receivers or Missile Approach Warning System with the exception of the two Mi-24 V we just acquired. So yes, their Mi-35's are much more survivable.[/QUOTE]

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army:

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Mi-35 is also equipped with a missile approach waring system. If the system sees the missile approaching it alerts the pilot to the direction of the missile and automatically dispenses flares. Whether the missile goes for the flares or the helicopter depends on the version of the manpad and i would assume many other factors.

tnx for explaination. After doing some reading, it seems these helicopters will be facing many dangers, from manpads/Strela/Shilka, even more legacy anti-aircraft devices, I'm sure our guys will think of more tactics to bring them down. it's not easy being a helicopter in Artsakh War 2

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.artsakh.tv/am/241220113.html

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

http://www.artsakh.tv/am/231220113.html

[Aralez]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

As far as i know non of the Armenian Mi-24's are equipped with Radar Warning Receivers or Missile Approach Warning System with the exception of the two Mi-24 V we just acquired. So yes, their Mi-35's are much more survivable.

In the West, attack helicopter methods have changed over the years. First was the direct fire role with machine guns and rockets. Later, came helicopters with guided missiles and sensors mounted on masts. Only the sensor mast had to see over a hill for the helicopter to attack. The latest stand-off methods are for a soldier on the ground to have a link to the helicopter to take control of the weapons. The helicopter can be 10 km away and still attack a target, using a forward controller.

To sum up, the newest use of the helicopter in a real war is as a missile cart for forward controllers. More mobile but much more expensive than the Russian idea of using artillery to launch homing missiles that are directed by a forward controller (SANTIMETR). The future is probably weapons like the 9M721 (Kh-29) launched by a drone.

Remember that American attack helicopters were not flown in the Balkans becuse the pilots were not well enough trained and had no confidence in the systems that were supposed to protect them on a real battlefield ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ah-64a-ops.htm ) and remember that American attack helicopters were defeated in Iraq in 2003 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Attack_on_Karbala ). Helicopters are good for attacking farmer militia in Somalia (Ethiopian Mi-35s) or Afghanistan (American AH-64s), but not so good in a real war.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Remember that American attack helicopters were not flown in the Balkans becuse the pilots were not well enough trained and had no confidence in the systems that were supposed to protect them on a real battlefield ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ah-64a-ops.htm ) and remember that American attack helicopters were defeated in Iraq in 2003 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Attack_on_Karbala ). Helicopters are good for attacking farmer militia in Somalia (Ethiopian Mi-35s) or Afghanistan (American AH-64s), but not so good in a real war.

Interesting. a bunch of iraqi's with AK-47s gave 31 apache's hell, and that's not even considering the AA power Artsakh has, if they don't take down all of Artsakh's AA capability, these helicopters will be sitting ducts in the air. Even then mobile manpads/shilka/strelas will be hunting them down from cover.

[Spetsnaz]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Արցախում ավելի շատ տղաներ են ծնվում. Ազգային վիճակագրական ծարայությունը ամփոփել է 2011 թվականի հունվար-նոյեմբեր ամիսների տվյալները
2011-12-24 19:58:00
Ժողովրդագրական իրավիճակի բարելավումը հանրապետության գործադիր իշխանության կողմից վարվող քաղաքականության գերակայություններից է: Դրա բարելավմանն ուղղված ծրագրերն արդեն արդյունքն են տվել: Եթե 1995-ից 2000 թթ-ին հանրապետությունում տարեկան ծնվել է միջին հաշվով 1948 մարդ, 2001-ից 2006 թթ-ին` 2126 մարդ, ապա 2007-ից 2011թթ-ին 2536 մարդ:

keep on growing. 2012-2015 shoul be around 2800.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The Mi-35 is equipped with a Radar Warning Receiver (RWR). If the a Shilka were to track the Mi-35 with its radar, the RWR system would alert the pilot that it is being tracked and also give a rough location of the source of the radar waves.

Nice system however one must consider false alarm, false radar signal, and a increased pilot distraction (time between decision making process). An Armenian combat pilot flying in the enemy territory flying a Mil-24 or an SU-25 should assume at all time that he is being tracked, easier that way because you stay on your toes and the next step has been decided for you.

We posses the ZSU-23-4M2 variant which does not use a radar but a nigh vision camera thus making it much more stealthier. Also the radar's on the Shilkas pick up a lot of false returns under 60m 200ft, so if a helicopter is hugging the ground (which it would most likely be) it will not be detected.

nice, flying on night vision "map of the earth" (even if you are tracked the missile can miss). This is where pilot caliber comes into play which Azeris will never have.

The Mi-35 is also equipped with a missile approach waring system. If the system sees the missile approaching it alerts the pilot to the direction of the missile and automatically dispenses flares. Whether the missile goes for the flares or the helicopter depends on the version of the manpad and i would assume many other factors.

Now this is good to have in an hostile territory, however auto dispense of flare is not a good idea....manual is better.

As far as i know non of the Armenian Mi-24's are equipped with Radar Warning Receivers or Missile Approach Warning System with the exception of the two Mi-24 V we just acquired. So yes, their Mi-35's are much more survivable.

It is a step up from Mil mi-24 however it increase pilot workload and complacency (dependance on on board systems). With a normal Mi-24 you go in with your guns drawn and accept to take enemy fire (less thinking) so I agree with Aralez.

The Mil-Mi-35M is good improvement however for it to be effective you need the right flight crew......if you fall behind the xxxxpit then you won't last.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenian Army: