Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"Again with your BS, I never said we need to have a democracy. Maybe YOU are the Western agent. Having democracy is but a trivial problem facing Armenia."

LOL, I'm the agent...ROTFLMAO

"Let me know if you have any real arguments instead of the crazy monologue going on inside your head."

If you did not understand what was written before what makes you think you will understand anything after?

Have a nice ride on the plane with Donald on the Revolution...ROTFLMAO

So it seems there is someone more crazy then Vahram on this board, you earned it!

brace yourselves folks there is going to be a revolution in Armenia...ROTF

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"Again with your BS, I never said we need to have a democracy. Maybe YOU are the Western agent. Having democracy is but a trivial problem facing Armenia."

LOL, I'm the agent...ROTFLMAO

"Let me know if you have any real arguments instead of the crazy monologue going on inside your head."

If you did not understand what was written before what makes you think you will understand anything after?

See, that's what I mean. Instead of making a logical point, you are laughing to yourself.

I am urging you to think before you speak (or type in this case).

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"I am urging you to think before you speak (or type in this case). "

Do you want me to type before or after the "Revolution" ?...ROTFLMAO!

I hear that not only is Donald Duck going with you but you are also taking a monkey with you...

Enjoy your stay I'm sure you are welcome now not only in Armenia but people on this board! At least I know the azeribaboons love you now! Good job!

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Agreed with Mos, why is this a pity? The revolution rid Iran of subservience to the West and established a truly influential country. God willing, a similar (but not Islamic) revolution will free Armenia of corruption and complacency.

Well, revolution by Levon's people would be a disaster for Armenia. I'd of course want to see an evolution into better, more transparent governance, less corruption, but most important thing a more patriotic government that's strong on national defence. I want also some social elements and our church to be involved.

However I don't support bad mouthing our current President and Government and bring down image of our country. No Government is perfect, and in my view Serzh has done many things right for our country and our security. And even if I disagree with him, I will still give my respect to him and not bad mouth him.

Agreed for the most part Vahram. Armenia definitely needs to prioritize its air defense over its air force. But to be honest, we don't really have a choice. Maintaining (much less creating) an air force requires huge amounts of capital, which we do not have.

I also like the previously mentioned fact that Armenia will reach the Caspian if it has Russian approval. If/when it does, Russia will provide the air superiority needed.

Iran and Russia all are at odds with Azerbaijan. So they are surrounded. All 3 of us could finish Azerbaijan in a week and the West would not do a thing, because they'd not want to get into conflict with Russia + Iran over Azerbaijan. Just like during Georgia war.

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well, revolution by Levon's people would be a disaster for Armenia. I'd of course want to see an evolution into better, more transparent governance, less corruption, but most important thing a more patriotic government that's strong on national defence. I want also some social elements and our church to be involved.

However I don't support bad mouthing our current President and Government and bring down image of our country. No Government is perfect, and in my view Serzh has done many things right for our country and our security. And even if I disagree with him, I will still give my respect to him and not bad mouth him.)



Iran and Russia all are at odds with Azerbaijan. So they are surrounded. All 3 of us could finish Azerbaijan in a week and the West would not do a thing, because they'd not want to get into conflict with Russia + Iran over Azerbaijan. Just like during Georgia war.

That's the kind of revolution I'm thinking of! I don't know what Vahram was thinking of...

I am not badmouthing the president. That is what Azeri media does. Everything that I have said is true. Sargsyan is not my president, therefore I reserve the right to make criticisms. I suppose that will change when I do the military service, but for now....

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Well, revolution by Levon's people would be a disaster for Armenia. I'd of course want to see an evolution into better, more transparent governance, less corruption, but most important thing a more patriotic government that's strong on national defence. I want also some social elements and our church to be involved.

However I don't support bad mouthing our current President and Government and bring down image of our country. No Government is perfect, and in my view Serzh has done many things right for our country and our security. And even if I disagree with him, I will still give my respect to him and not bad mouth him.



Iran and Russia all are at odds with Azerbaijan. So they are surrounded. All 3 of us could finish Azerbaijan in a week and the West would not do a thing, because they'd not want to get into conflict with Russia + Iran over Azerbaijan. Just like during Georgia war.

And you're "3 nations vs Azerbaijan" is not realistic. The only reason Iran and Azerbaijan would be in are is BECAUSE of Western meddling.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

That's the kind of revolution I'm thinking of! I don't know what Vahram was thinking of...

I am not badmouthing the president. That is what Azeri media does. Everything that I have said is true. Sargsyan is not my president, therefore I reserve the right to make criticisms. I suppose that will change when I do the military service, but for now....

Well I don't want revolution, but evolution. We need a stable country.

What do you mean he's not your President? Yes you can criticise his policies, but labelling him bad names or things like that doesn't help our country. At least the people that don't like Serzh should still be grateful its not the treacherous Levonakans in power.

And you're "3 nations vs Azerbaijan" is not realistic. The only reason Iran and Azerbaijan would be in are is BECAUSE of Western meddling.

The fact remains, Azerbaijan is surrounded by countries not very friendly to it. I'm sure Iran wouldn't mind Azerbaijan getting destroyed by Armenia/Russia

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Guys about this air cover thing we are blowing this out of proportion! Listen to Eddo! First even during the Soviet times there was not a big air force in Armenia even back than it was not needed. I think we have more Russian planes now that we did back then.

First there is not much airspace to fly around in Armenia, it is a tough airspace. If you have one missile on your arse you can�t doge it

So let us go back to the first war for NKR! We downed how many baboon planes that were manned by Russian Mercenaries? All this we did without an active air defense! Just shoulder fired stuff and maybe a lucky hit with some AA guns. We did not have much yet with shotguns and a few MPADS we did all this damage! We did so much damage that the baboon air force was not a player at the end of the war. Here we are 20 years later with S300 amongst other things and you guys are still crying about an Air force. We don�t need it!

Concerning defense infrastructure of the RA during USSR:
The USSR's high command always had an imperial vision of things, with the traditional russian 'retreat deep', 'burn the land', 'deep defense', mentality...
In such a vision, from the 1940-s to 1980-s, Armenia (and all of the Lesser Caucasus) was supposed to be abandoned at first wave western invasion, (wich could have come not only from Turkey, but also from Iran, since for most those years, Sha's Iran was a BP base).
Then the conter attack would have been launched from the territory of actual NKR to Tiflis, and then Abkhazia.
That's why, virtually nothing valuable was built in the territory of RA.
There was only a DOSAf training base in Arzni, mainly built in early 50-s, and never refurbished.
There was no major arms reserves in RA.
The only significant one was near Apovian/Palahovit
In comparison, there were 22 times more artillery shells and rockets stocked in azerbaijan than in RA, according this logic..
The first and one of the biggest reserves was near Akna(aka-akdam).
Similarly, most air force was based around Baku (easy acces, far from enemy lines), and Gudauta in Abkhazia.
So this USSR disposal is not relevant at all.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

without proper air cover we will needlessly loose many of our boys on the ground sending them to the deaths. In regards to your bet that Russia would provide air cover during such an offensive I have many problems with that but I will go over two:

I wanted to ask you about this. How efficient will azeri mig-29s will be over artsakh? if we assume that they don't have any PGMs, how efficient will dummy bombing be over a little area such as artsakh by mig-29s? they've around 50 mig-29s, i doubt they'll just let them rot in reserve, they'll surely use them for whatever they can.
also, having in mind there's a S300-PS in Goris covering artsakh now, but that's entirely other topic i guess.

[Artashes]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenia doesn't need the latest and the greatest at this time. Older aircraft with the Armenian touch will do just fine (what happened to Russian discounts btw). What Armenia needs is a viable small fleet that can maintain control of her airspace and fend off any Azeri air attacks. I don't expect Armenia right away to be able to go up against the Turkish airforce, this is why we have the Russian airbase with Russian migs. There should be no reason why Armenian fighter jets can't fly along side Russian pilots over Armenia.



without proper air cover we will needlessly loose many of our boys on the ground sending them to the deaths. In regards to your bet that Russia would provide air cover during such an offensive I have many problems with that but I will go over two:

1- Russian pilots are not obligated to go all the way or risk their lives/aircraft in getting shotdown to save Armenian soldiers or Armenian towns if its too dangerous......now an Armenian pilot would be a different story, it would be his duty and honor to save the lives of his compatriots regardless of the danger and loosing his own life/aircraft.

2- If the offensive was successful we will never hear the end of it and the whole world will say that it was the Russians who won the war, not Armenians....and they will be right, even though Armenians did most of the work.



Touche

btw Armanen, I would never claim to be a political analyst.....I am just an old school aviator.

I have to agree with Eddo on this(could use older aircraft with Armo touch) and (we need air controll and especially ground support) and also(better us defending us than Russia).
I'm not saying disrespect for Russia or lack of need for Russia but we need our own air capabilities under our own control(for absolutely sure).
I think(and I may just be dreaming here) the world would be shocked(especially baboons and simi hominoids) what the Armo touch could do to older aircraft and I know everyone would be shocked at what the Armo
Heart is really made of. It is this Armenian Heart that we need covering our men on the ground.
Artashes