Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[skhara]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

hahahaha you're so funny and no one here believes that you're hay so go and follow gmd's advice.
And I can tell you no one out of Haysatan thinks like this. Thank god they don't.

I wouldn't say "no one". I think we've had a topic on this. These types have to be marginalized though.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I wouldn't say "no one". I think we've had a topic on this. These types have to be marginalized though.

You have retards every were and Hayastan is no exception.

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Shaumian, dont worry I said the exact same thing as you when I first joined and was also branded a Turk....

The ultra-nationalists always seem to have the loudest-voice. I find it is better to be quiet and intelligent than loud and ignorant.

Perhaps we should start a discussion where we can weigh the Pro's and Cons of the Arstakh situation. As for dashnaks, they once played a vital role in our fight for independence but it seems the mentality has persisted. Currently I find them to be doing more damage than good but I do understand their importance in history.

Pros: More land (tourism, agriculture etc.), Pride and Dignity, More freedom for karabakhtsi (freedom can be defined differently)

Cons: 2 Blockades, Information war, Exhausting arms race, lack of regional integration, Loss on major oil and transportation projects, Increased Dependency on Russia, More costs to Hyastanci's, Loss of potential jobs due to blockade, Dependency on unreliable and devastated georgia, Less freedom for Karabkhtsis (karabakh would likely see more investment with azerbaijani oil money)

[Anoush]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

What leads you to believe that I'm a Turk? Wouldn't a Turkish troll make anti-Armenian remarks? I simply have the opinion that the war in Karabax and more broadly the reign of the Dashnaks have been disastrous for Armenia.

First off it's not Dashnaks it's Tashnagtsoutyoun or the Armenian Republican Federation, and they have a long history of rescuing, fighting and creating what you now call the Republic of Armenia. Then as you have been already told Artsakh's survival and preservation is ultimately important for Armenia.

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

First off it's not Dashnaks it's Tashnagtsoutyoun or the Armenian Republican Federation

My dear Anoush, ARF = Armenian revolutionary Federation

Then as you have been already told Artsakh's survival and preservation is ultimately important for Armenia

I have heard this argument many times but no one seems to elaborate on it. Please clarify how the Status quo regarding karabakh is important for Armenia, or as some would argue "vital for our nations survival".

Please don't see this question as provocation. I would love to see Armenia and Karabakh united as one, my dream is the same as years however, I beleive it may be beneficial to let this one slide. Anyways, I look forward to hearing everyones views.

[gmd]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Considering what was once Armenia and what is now left, and in light of the historic reasons for that reduction, then I do not see how we can ever let even an inch slide. Please explain why the turks have all of a sudden become something we can trust. Do you not believe in learning from history?

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Shaumian, dont worry I said the exact same thing as you when I first joined and was also branded a Turk....

The ultra-nationalists always seem to have the loudest-voice. I find it is better to be quiet and intelligent than loud and ignorant.

There is no such thing as an "ultra-nationalist". You don't need to hide your disdain of nationalism by putting "ultra-" in front of it. We not only have the loudest voice (because there is loud in forums) but we also are intelligent.

As for dashnaks, they once played a vital role in our fight for independence but it seems the mentality has persisted. Currently I find them to be doing more damage than good but I do understand their importance in history.

Ah, what a classic. Blame the usual suspects, the Dashnaks. Everyone feels comfortable doing that, it's like a psychological safe zone, just like the idiotic post from that Shaumian character who thinks the ARF is governing Armenia. Anatolian, how are they "doing more damage than good" right now? Is it by instilling Armenianism in people's hearts and souls? Is it by slowing down the process of assimilation in the diaspora? Or maybe they spend too much time with lobbying for the Armenian cause and doing fundraisers for Armenia? With ~15 seats in the Armenian parliament and 3 in the Artsakh parliament, they seem to be doing soooo many bad things in Armenia, it's incredible!

Pros: More land (tourism, agriculture etc.), Pride and Dignity, More freedom for karabakhtsi (freedom can be defined differently)

Cons: 2 Blockades, Information war, Exhausting arms race, lack of regional integration, Loss on major oil and transportation projects, Increased Dependency on Russia, More costs to Hyastanci's, Loss of potential jobs due to blockade, Dependency on unreliable and devastated georgia, Less freedom for Karabkhtsis (karabakh would likely see more investment with azerbaijani oil money)

Sorry, Armenia is not for sale.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You can check out this thread and observe the maps to see for yourself why NKR is vital to Armenia's security, especially considering the Azerbaboon land claims on Armenia.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

anatolian and shaumian, please take the above advice and find a landmine ASAP!

[truAnatolian]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This is not something I ever wanted to bring up, perhaps it is only between me and my uncle or perhaps it is felt by other western armenians as well but the dashnaks may have provoked the genocide. They created alot of problems for the anatolian armenian population as they (the dashnaks) originated in Russian armenia as opposed to Turkish armenia.

Anyways, that is history and I love armenians no matter their political affiliation or where they originated.

As for "learning from history".... Germany and Japan suffered the greatest defeats of the 20th century and they are now both economic,democratic and military powerhouses. Israel is smaller than Armenia proper and yet more powerful.

Strength of a nation doesn't come from how much land it possesses anymore it comes from how important you are to other countries. This is the age of globalization. Ceding karabakh (i hate the word cede but it will have to do) will allow us, if its not already too late, integration into major oil pipelines of great interest to other countries. Then armenia will have a real and tangible bargaining chip and power. Karabakh doesn't give us power. Economy, integration, and military technology to follow will.

Please explain to me why Americas allies do so well, while Russia's allies do poorly? Why do countries who hate eachother (i.e croatia,bosnia,serbia or Syria and Turkey) still have open borders and get along while Armenia and its neighbours don't......Its because we have no economy. We don't matter. Lets face it $$ makes the world go round and if you can't beat em' join em! Live to fight another day. Lets integrate and make peace with our neighbours, their minorities will keep them on edge for us. Our problem is that we are too vocal. If we don't like your country, we'll tell you. And though though such straight forwardness and honesty is a virtue, it doesn't work in this world. Give em what they want, our diasporan dollars will go alot farther, investment will pour in and we will gain true power and then we can strike when the time is right.

I don't see it as "selling-out" armenia. A countries military strength is directly correlated to its economic strength, whether that means buying arms or exerting influence. We must look long-term.

Free and Prosperous Armenia forever!