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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

    Serious Escalation In Armenia-Azerbaijan Violence Greets Clinton
    June 5, 2012 - 6:27pm, by Joshua Kucera The Bug Pit Armenia Azerbaijan Nagorno Karabakh
    Just as Hillary Clinton is making a trip through the Caucasus, the Azerbaijan-Armenia border is seeing some of the worst violence in years. On Monday, three Armenian soldiers were killed by Azerbaijani forces, and on Tuesday, the Armenians retaliated, killing five Azerbaijanis. Alex Jackson, in a very worthwhile post at his blog Caspian Intel, notes that the violence was not on the "Line of Contact" separating Azerbaijanis and Armenians at the de facto border of Nagorno Karabakh, but at the state border between Armenia and Azerbaijan proper. Further, the two incidents took place about 25 miles apart, "which indicates that the clashes are not linked by local geography (i.e. an Armenian incursion followed by a local Azerbaijani counterattack) but part of a broader pattern of probing attempts along the border," Jackson writes.

    The implication is that, on one side or both, there was a degree of regional-level coordination by military commanders and a willingness to test the defences of the other side across a wide swathe of territory. This expansion of the battlefield marks a serious escalation.
    The violence came at an awkward time for Clinton, who issued a bland statement in Armenia "calling on everyone to renounce force as well as refraining from violence." There was a discussion of Nagorno Karabakh on Tuesday at the Wilson Center in Washington, and regional expert Tom de Waal addressed the question of why international officials can't make more direct statements "naming and shaming" whichever side started the violence. The problem, de Waal said, is that there's no way for them to know. There are 20,000 soldiers dug into trenches on each side of the line, and six monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Another stark statistic: since the beginning of 2011, 63 people have been killed in skirmishes between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

    The pessimism at the Wilson Center event was stark, but entirely warranted. Wayne Merry of the American Foreign Policy Council suggested that we should be moving from a "post-war" frame of mind to a "pre-war" one, given that the renewal of serious conflict seems so inevitable. Charles King, a Caucasus expert at Georgetown University, observed that this is the most militarized border in Eurasia, "yet it's received the least amount of attention over the years" compared to the unresolved conflicts in Georgia and Cyprus. Perhaps the only comfort, given the news of the last few days, was that the experts seemed to agree that full-scale war is less likely to begin from an accidental escalation of these sorts of border skirmishes than from a strategic decision by one of the parties (obviously most likely Azerbaijan) to think that war is in their interest. "The only thing that will alter the strategic calculations on both sides," King said, was for the "international community" to raise the stakes for starting a conflict. But then you think of those six lonely European monitors, and what a small priority this is for anyone outside of Armenia and Azerbaijan. How often in history has the breakout of a war been so obvious?

    Comment


    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

      I've seen a lot of article that claim the fighting happened in Asagi Askipara.

      For example from the BBC: "A statement from the Azerbaijani defence ministry said an "Armenian sabotage group" had tried to enter Azerbaijani military positions at around 06:30 (0130 GMT) on Tuesday in the village of Asagi Askipara, in the Qazax district of western Azerbaijan." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18328690

      The problem is that Asagi Askipara is the Azeri exclave in Armenia that we took over during the Karabakh war. How is the claim that the fighting was there possible, especially when both sides know Armenia controls it and it is relatively "far" from the border/frontline? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asagi_Askipara
      Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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      • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

        Wikipedia now has an article on the border clashes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ar...border_clashes
        Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

        Comment


        • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

          No Federate.
          In fact there was one Armenian village, that is still there, called Voskepar.
          It had 2 adjascent sectors, Yukhari (upper) and Ashaghi (lower) Askiparas...
          During early soviet period, these 2 sections, were given to Azerbaijan (and not exchanged against Ardzvashen, as they present it, since during same period Ardzvashen was still connected to then Grasnoselsk/vahan).
          During those early brotherly internationalist soviet years they managed to bribe, buy, etc... and each time we lost land, on all sectors.
          In Noyemperian and Itchevan we had 2 enclaves created. We lost the link with Ardzvashen.
          We lost a big chunk of land around big and smaller Al lakes (then part of Vartenis) to then Kelbadjar (fortunately this was retaken and is part of NKR now.
          We lost all the eastern side of Goris/Gaban road to newly created 'red kurdistan', as well as territory of then Minkend and Dzidzernavank, etc...
          (also now NKR Kashatagh), ... you can see it very well, when comparing soviet maps of the 20-s, with the 30s, and 40-s...
          What helped them was the existence of Transcaucasus union of 3 republics in 1 entity until 1936 if I do remember well.

          So, we took upper Askipara (few homes, mainly forest covered valley), because not taking it, would mean loss of Voskepar.
          And that is absolutely calm area.
          But lower askipara, is still in part in their hands (plus they have captured all the good lands of Perkaper and Voskebar villages north of Voskepar river and do cultivate them).
          When you see in the reports the old church of Voskepar, surrounded by ruined homes, that is lower voskepar, they are talking about.
          They still do held some parts of that, and it is in the middle of a sort of exclave, entering deep in Armenian territory.
          You can see it pretty well when having a closer look on google map.

          Comment


          • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

            Is Artsvashen de jure part of Armenia but occupied by azerbaijan?

            Comment


            • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

              Originally posted by Etchmiadzin View Post
              Is Artsvashen de jure part of Armenia but occupied by azerbaijan?
              Exact.

              Comment


              • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                Thank you for the explanations Vrej. I took screenshots of the map & satellite image of this region if anybody is interested. So Vrej, if they control some lands of Berkaber, it means they are technically occupying de jure Armenian lands that are NOT their exclaves, right?


                Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

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                • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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                  • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                    Comment


                    • Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

                      Originally posted by Federate View Post
                      Wikipedia now has an article on the border clashes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Ar...border_clashes
                      I have been using it last two days....whoever has created/updating that deserves a lot of credit for job well done.
                      B0zkurt Hunter

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